01-10-2003 00:28									#121
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Or more like, even with a few straight boards, the fence is still warped.

	01-10-2003 01:59									#122
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quote: Silly handle? You should speak, Wiggums.

Wiglaf is actually quite a scholarly name.

quote: Furthermore, if you had bothered to read my entire post, surely you would have come across the "P.S." part where I pretty much say the obvious — that, in the long run, it's nothing that's going to rock the world.

I do not read fine print. In this particular case, I was too distracted by the big, bold phrase "Fox News: Stupid Asswipes" to notice any postscript.

quote: Lastly, don't call me a dickhead again, son. Got it?

Thanks for the tip dad. In any case, reread my post again. The use of the word "dickhead" was hardly the embodiment of higher irony but apparently it confused some of you idiots as being a petty insult.

"Don't call me an idiot again, son."

	01-10-2003 02:01									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Republicans, not conservatives.

Yer right, I should have said reactionaries. The conservatives are the left wing of the Democratic Party.

	01-10-2003 02:11									#124
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Che, feel free to identify these "conservatives" at Fox. They do little more than kiss the behinds of the GOP, not advance conservative principles.

	01-10-2003 02:13									#125
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I SAID YOU WERE RIGHT!

	01-10-2003 02:21									#126
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Oh, this threw me:

quote: The conservatives are the left wing of the Democratic Party.

Thought that was sarcasm.

	01-10-2003 02:36									#127
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It was, but my point was more that the U.S. political spectrum is so far to the right that any place else in the world, the left wing of the Dem's would be cnosidered the Conservative Party, while Republicans would be considered just across the border from fascism.

	01-10-2003 03:50									#128
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Here's a great idea: Let's help these guys release some pent-up aggression with a good ol' fashioned game of paint ball against each other some fine fall morning. Then let's make bets on how long it will take to escalate to assault rifles.

	01-10-2003 03:56									#129
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quote: Just a small point. Anyone who wants to pull some crap on FOX will now think twice, won't they? FOX plays hardball.

Correction: FOX plays with shotguns.

A clever prank was turned into an invasion of privacy and at least several harrasing phone calls on a family.

(BUT, AGAIN, if Carlson expected FOX to act decent anyways, he probably deserves it. )

	01-10-2003 04:41									#130
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It was, but my point was more that the U.S. political spectrum is so far to the right that any place else in the world, the left wing of the Dem's would be cnosidered the Conservative Party, while Republicans would be considered just across the border from fascism.

Umm... not really...

Both because other places in the world are a VERY GREAT deal more traditionalist and conservative than you're giving them credit for.... AND because many of the Democrats (though certainly not the current party establishment types) are probably a great deal further left than you're willing to give them credit for.

Granted, many of the "leftists" in the Democratic Party probably don't clutch copies of material by Marx, Engels, and Gramsci to their chests, but the left wing of the party is definately WELL to the global left (you're right about the right/centrist wing of the party, though).

People, especially non-American leftists and extreme American leftists, have an interesting tendency to grossly overstate the "right-wing nature" of American poliical culture relative to the rest of the developed world (and especially the developing world).

It must be kept in mind that while George W. Bush is currently President of the United States, it was not all that long ago that President Lyndon Johnson was fighting the "War on Poverty" and the Democrats controlled the Congress for over 40 years in which the American Welfare State ballooned many times over in size and scope.

It is also oft overlooked or forgotten by many that it was not European leftists that pioneered the environmentalist movement and got most of the first environmental legislation passed, but rather American ones. The United States had clean air and clean water acts along with additional regulations on fossil fuels and nuclear waste over a full decade before most European governments got around to doing most of that. In fact, the main problem with Kyoto and why many Democratic lawmakers do not support it is that it only recognizes work done to reduce emmissions after around 1990... since the U.S. did most of its emmisions and clean environment legislation in the 1970s and 1980s and the Europeans did most of theirs in the 90's, most American lawmakers feel it unfairly slights the Americans by forcing them to go a step further because they got on the ball sooner. Kyoto also gives basically a free pass to developing nations to pollute as much as they want and then make money off of developed nations in the process through a pollution bartering system.

It it worth pointing out that it was and is a broken treaty by design... it was written by cynical European politicians intent on looking like they cared about environmental legislation that they knew would end up going nowhere and would actually accomplish absolutely nothing toward forcing anyone other than the Americans to actually substantially reduce their emmissions. The treaty is also biased against nations such as the United States, Australia, and Canana with especially large and sparsely inhabited landmasses over which electric rail would be inefficient and fossil fuel-burning trucking lines are, simply put, far more economical as a means of commercial transport. Since Democrats represent COMMON LABORERS who would lose their jobs in the resulting economic collapse caused by actually respecting Kyoto, it's little wonder that there are those in a party which represents the working class that are opposed to the treaty.

Give nearly any other issue and the reason why people think this can be explained as not a lack of left-leaning concerns and ideals, but rather differences in the practical situation and, frankly, simple ignorance.

They may not all carry copies of the Communist Manifesto on their persons, but they're still to the global left.

	01-10-2003 07:32									#131
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I haven't read Rolling Stone in decades.

My wife buys it. There was an interesting article about the radical right wing nature of the Bush administration and the danger of thinking that they can be expected to play by the rules.

Not a bad article.

	01-10-2003 13:02									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Here's a great idea: Let's help these guys release some pent-up aggression with a good ol' fashioned game of paint ball against each other some fine fall morning. Then let's make bets on how long it will take to escalate to assault rifles.

And show the whole thing live on cable.