07-10-2003 01:44									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Their is some racism vs. turks or russians, mostly because of gangs that go around beating other ppl. up. or robbing them or both.

How would you say these problems are presented by the newspapers? In the UK, there can be a bad habit of hyping up storys like this.

	07-10-2003 01:47									#32
	Support Apolyton

quote: You can tell that to the ~35 million Muslims already in EU.

Ecthy, unless Europe changes their values, the Muslims will get to make the decisions before long, just because of the difference in birthrates.

	07-10-2003 01:47									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks that was a great link. Keep these coming or any opposing links are welcome as well.

There remains the question of the Armenian Genocide which the Turks have never admitted to happening. France is the only state in Europe which recognizes officially that the massacres did occur during the First World War.

What would be the world reaction to Germany denying that the Holocaust never took place? As outrageous as that sounds so too is Turkey's denial of the murder of 1.5 million Armenians. Has Turkey (which still officially calls itself the Ottoman Empire) commited similar crimes against the Greeks and Kurds?

	07-10-2003 01:56									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: (which still officially calls itself the Ottoman Empire)

This is false.

	07-10-2003 01:58									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: How would you say these problems are presented by the newspapers? In the UK, there can be a bad habit of hyping up storys like this.

Usually the newspapers dont report much about such incidents. Its some short news, mostly with only facts reported (for example in local news: "Gang of 5 young turks (16-20) beat up Shop Owner, stole 200 cash. Injuries of the victim are treated in hospital.")
In contrast Storys about racism often get hyped up. For example if a gang of 5 germans beat up a turkish shopowner it makes bigger news than the other way round (bzw. if their is some hint about racism being part of the motive, which is often assumed without having any "real" info).

	07-10-2003 02:23									#36
	Got spare money?

quote: Has Turkey (which still officially calls itself the Ottoman Empire) commited similar crimes against the Greeks and Kurds?

Actually it has. A couple of milllion Ionian and Pontian Greeks in 1922. A for the Kurds, this (1980 on) is the 3rd time in their history that they have rebelled and have been suppressed with a bloodbath.

	07-10-2003 02:28									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Pontian?

	07-10-2003 02:33									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Damn, I remembered having a nice non-biased URL on the armenian massacre, but it's ****ing impossible these days...

	07-10-2003 02:52									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I say that if they let us win at football next weekend they can come in, otherwise they can sod off.

	07-10-2003 03:00									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

If their reforms are real and successful I don't have any major problem with letting them in. As for higher birth rates, good! We will need more young people to take care of our ageing population.

Anyway, the country I would like the most to join EU is Russia, although it's probably decades away, if they will ever join.

	07-10-2003 03:02									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The EU is a bad idea, the more who join it the worse off this world will be. So, NO, Turkey should not join.

	07-10-2003 03:23									#42
	Got spare money?

The EU is just the forerunner for the European Empire with Pope Berlusconi as head of state/caesar.

	07-10-2003 03:25									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Shouldn't that be Pope Prodi?

	07-10-2003 03:34									#44
	Remove this text

The best solution seems to be to allow the Kurds to split off of Turkey and then let the ethnic Turk and ethnic Greek parts join the Union.

	07-10-2003 03:35									#45
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Shouldn't that be Pope Prodi?

He's going to be prodding people? That doesn't sound very Pope like.

	07-10-2003 04:05									#46
	Tired of ads?

Why are the Turks so stuck up when it comes to Kurdish Independence?

	07-10-2003 05:07									#47
	Got spare money?

Azazel:



Here is a link showing who has at least acknowledged the Genocide.

It is important not to lose sight of what happened in history. Again I mention what would world reaction be to the statement that the Holocaust never happened?

	07-10-2003 05:41									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Would you like an oppressant muslim state become a member of the US?

You mean besides Texas?

	07-10-2003 05:43									#49
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Snotty I guess I must consider western human rights to be superior, and I would see it as a good thing if Turkey adopted our view on human rights. If it could then spread, all the better. As for the torture thing, criminals sometimes arent allowed lawyers straight away and then they get tortured by the police. Theres many more....

Oooh, I'm getting a good idea. Perhaps in Moslem countries you should be allowed to hire a lawyer before you are tortured, and his job would be to be tortured in your place. Sort of a grown up whipping boy. Damn that's good.

	07-10-2003 05:48									#50
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Turkey will never be a part of the EU, because Europeans are racist. It's that simple.

	07-10-2003 06:08									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes. Turkey has bags of potential, and has a decent birthrate to boot. The EU is supposed to help prevent wars, right? It's daft leaving out what was a big player in those wars for absurd geographic reasons.

The number of Muslims in the EU is not nearly as high as some suggest, it's 15-25 million. We can easily accomodate 65 mostly moderate Muslims.

	07-10-2003 06:34									#52
	Get a bigger avatar today!

They have hawt women and fun clubs in Istanbul. Let them in!!!

	07-10-2003 06:41									#53
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Snotty I dont really consider Turkey to be fully geographically part of Europe. Parts are most definetly middle east. If we let Turkey in, what about Russia? Parts of Russia are eastern Europe, but as for the rest of it..... How far are we going to let this union spread?

Until China! :-)
It is a startegic issue for Europe. We can't compare USA WITHOUT aerospace technology. If we try to built from the beginnig we are going to lost crusial time.
So Russia is going to be a full part if in the near future if you watch the EU procedures... What about Turkey? Probably yes. They have the start-entry paper and if they respond to every democratic / human rights changes, then it is impossible to stop this procedure. But nobody believes that they can watch the 'road EU map'. The Turkish army structure is depending on the 'power of fear' and strangers fear, so they haven't ability to solve ALL the problems with ALL neighboors (Greece, Cyprus, Syria) until the end of 2004. So, Russia maybe will be the 'target' as a future member: the Russians SOLVES the 'EU energy' problems (oil, wood, electric power) and they offer an OPEN DOOR to the biggest MARKET of the WORLD: China/Japan/Asian tigers....

	07-10-2003 07:59									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Yes, human rights is the major reason but another good point is that Turkey is not located in Europe. It's called the EUROPEAN Union after all.

In other words, the problem was that a continent-neutral name was not picked for the EU back when it was founded. So?

Hell, you can ask the geographers to change the definition of "Europe" if you aren't hot on changing the name of "Eyew". There is absolutely no reason for the border to include Armenia but not Turkey.

	07-10-2003 08:10									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ABSOLUTLEY NOT

Old Eurocoms are all inbred and ugly

There is not way we are going to give them access the hottest women in the world. Turkish women are like Michael Jordan. They say there is Michael Jordan, and then there is everyone else.

GET THEM TO JOIN NAFTA INSTEAD

Attachment: turkey.jpg
This has been downloaded 139 time(s).

	07-10-2003 08:14									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

dammit! go here for her picture. there are millions of hot turkish women that are THIS HOT

no exaggeration

http://www.santabanta.com/gallery1.asp?mid1=5035

	07-10-2003 09:20									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Turkey will never be a part of the EU, because Europeans are racist. It's that simple.

Europeans aren't racist, you filthy redneck yankee for'ner.

	07-10-2003 09:23									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Reminds me of this very, in-shape girl that I worked with who was Turkish. Was chatting with her on the phone and she said she had gained a few pounds. I joked around and said, maybe it all went to your breasts. Saw her later...and that was exactly what happened. BTW, she looked like that picture Striker put up...except more on top.

	07-10-2003 12:23									#59
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Cookie Monster Azazel: Here is a link showing who has at least acknowledged the Genocide. It is important not to lose sight of what happened in history. Again I mention what would world reaction be to the statement that the Holocaust never happened?

Erm, a non-biased link?

sorry, but with the amount of links that clearly have another purpose rather than getting the truth out, it's kinda hard for me.

I saw a great link once. looked very unbiased to me, and that used contemporary sources. Made the story a bit less black/white like each side claims it to be.

	07-10-2003 12:37									#60
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I really love all these demands for "non-biased"-links dont you understand, there is no non biased. Everything is subjective. You just have to choose who you'll belive. The dead or the killers. Go figure