10-10-2003 08:58									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: think I was "deer caught in headlights".

So was I...

	10-10-2003 09:11									#32
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

After thinking about it some, I'm pretty disappointed that China has chosen to spend much of its limited R&D budget on repeating what others have done a half decade ago, and in the same manner that they have done it.

I guess I am looking for a new direction from China. Some imagination.

	10-10-2003 10:20									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Pah. You need to go to the moon before you can go to Mars.

	10-10-2003 19:34									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The space race is so... 1960s. That wonder has already been built. The Chinese should do something to show off their progress in materials science or something.

	10-10-2003 19:41									#35
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's not space race. It's space exploration. We need to establish settlements on other planets.

	10-10-2003 19:51									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If the effort is government-directed, the amount of money that we'll piss away in the process would be described as "profound".

	10-10-2003 22:49									#37
	Got spare money?

quote: The whole thing is a scam. They are not capable of space flight with humans.

Course they're not. After all, how could any country other than the Great USA achieve such a feat?

Newsflash: Russia put a man in orbit over 40 years ago! China's current technology is a lot more advanced than Russia's 1960s technology.


Troll

	11-10-2003 10:44									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Go China!

	11-10-2003 10:45									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: According to the BBC China was recently ranked 96th amoung nations in terms of living conditions and quality of life.

Be careful with stats like that. It's dangerous to generalize about China. People in big cities like Shanghai have a standard of living more or less on par with that of large western cities. Meanwhile people in other parts of the country are subsistance farmers. In some ways it's like two distinct nations.

	11-10-2003 10:54									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: I guess I am looking for a new direction from China. Some imagination.

DanS, I'm sorry to say your wait is going to be a long one. Imagination and originality are pronounced weaknesses of the (contemporary?) Chinese mentality. It is one of the most striking differences between the way Chinese and westerners think.

On the other hand, perhaps as compensation, they are excellent at acquiring and integrating knowledge from outside sources.

	11-10-2003 22:01									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

That's a real shame. There are lots of Chinese expats who are on the forefront of materials science. The Chinese government should find a way to bring them home and do something insanely great with them.

Manned space flight isn't going to add much external prestige, scientific knowledge, or military capabilities. It might add personal pride among Chinese, which I think does have some value. But overall, it's a waste of science money.

	11-10-2003 22:10									#42
	Re: Chinese to Launch Manned Spaceflight Next Week Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Agathon I hope this goes well for the Chinese - perhaps they'll even go to the moon eventually. That would be something for everyone to cheer about.

Yay! Wonderful! More people wasting money on stuff of no practical use except as a symbol to justify a totalitarian regime! Yay!

	11-10-2003 23:45									#43
	Re: Re: Chinese to Launch Manned Spaceflight Next Week Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Yay! Wonderful! More people wasting money on stuff of no practical use except as a symbol to justify a totalitarian regime! Yay!

I'm no great fan of the Chinese Communist Party, but do you really think that allowing free elections overnight would lead to anything other than chaos?

	11-10-2003 23:46									#44
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Pah. You need to go to the moon before you can go to Mars.

Actually, what you need is a BASE on the moon (or possibly in orbit, preferably both). Just landing there does jack.

	11-10-2003 23:48									#45
	Re: Re: Re: Chinese to Launch Manned Spaceflight Next Week Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Agathon I'm no great fan of the Chinese Communist Party, but do you really think that allowing free elections overnight would lead to anything other than chaos?

Do you really think that this spaceflight is going to do anything helpful towards democracy (or really, anything helpful for the Chinese people at all?)

	12-10-2003 03:05									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Morale boost?

	12-10-2003 03:10									#47
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Chinese to Launch Manned Spaceflight Next Week Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Do you really think that this spaceflight is going to do anything helpful towards democracy (or really, anything helpful for the Chinese people at all?)

No, but I think it's great that another country is willing to mount a space program which will no doubt lead to co-operation between it and other countries already in space and which will help spur greater human achievements in space.

Here's hoping the Indians are next.

I'm known for knocking the US, but I will never knock them for their space program which for me, and many other people, represents the US at its best.

I've always hoped that there would be a manned mission to Mars in my lifetime. If you grew up in the 70s like I did, then you would realise the peculiar hold that space exploration has on people of our generation and the one before.

	12-10-2003 04:29									#48
	Got spare money?

Drake what subject do you teach and to what age?

And 96th is not rock bottom. There are 188 nations in the world, so China is about in the middle. But 50 years ago they were so far back in standard of living and technology that it's not even funny. Now, they are ahead of a lot of the world. I'd say they are doing pretty well.

	12-10-2003 04:45									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Morale boost?

Again, how is it helpful?

	12-10-2003 05:39									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Drake what subject do you teach and to what age?

That's a rather random question...

English language to high-school students.

	12-10-2003 05:46									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hopefully This will put a fire under NASA's ass.

[LBJ] I, for one, will not go to bed by light of a communist moon![/LBJ]

	12-10-2003 07:39									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by DanS That's a real shame. There are lots of Chinese expats who are on the forefront of materials science. The Chinese government should find a way to bring them home and do something insanely great with them.

Outer space is a good place to manufacture exotic materials.

	12-10-2003 08:03									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Hopefully This will put a fire under NASA's ass. [LBJ] I, for one, will not go to bed by light of a communist moon![/LBJ]

What year are you living in?

As soon as they prove themselves competent you can bet that the Chinese will want to help out with the ISS and other collaborative projects.

Do you remember the Apollo-Soyuz mission? I think that shows that the joy of human endeavour transcends political differences.

	12-10-2003 08:04									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Again, how is it helpful?

Morale boosts tend to make people happy

	12-10-2003 08:49									#55
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Outer space is a good place to manufacture exotic materials.

Maybe so. I am not smart enough in the field to judge. But suffice it to say that these missions have not been put forward as benefitting materials science.

I wish China success in this endeavor. But I think this is not a good allocation of so many resources. I thought maybe China would learn from the US federal government experience in this regard. In the height of the push toward the moon, we spent over 1% of our economy on human space flight per year. Truly staggering sums.

In today's terms that would represent about $20 billion per annum for China and $100 billion for the US. $20 billion is the amount of all China's current R&D put together (both public and private) and about half its defense budget. We stopped spending so much after we landed on the moon because the science wasn't worth the cost after the propaganda value had been exhausted. We now spend about $5 billion per annum on manned space flight.

It takes a truly huge expenditure by the government to do this type of thing and the science payback is minimal. Consider yourself warned.

	12-10-2003 08:52									#56
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon What year are you living in?

1958, isn't everyone?

	12-10-2003 08:56									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is one of the times I'm glad I'm not President. China is going to try to milk this for all the propaganda value they can get and I don't think I'd be able to restrain myself from making fun of them if I were the Pres. Holding a press conference to "welcome China to 1958" would be great fun, but the resulting international incident might not be so funny.

	12-10-2003 09:02									#58
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Bush is going to be in Asia during the launch, IIRC.

	12-10-2003 09:06									#59
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Bush is going to be in Asia during the launch, IIRC.

Where at? It'd be kind of fun to meet my first American president in Japan, although I doubt he'll be doing much meeting and greeting while overseas.

	12-10-2003 09:12									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Bush will land in Japan on the 17th. He's staying two days.

I guess the launch window is the Oct. 15 - 17.