12-10-2003 21:19									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Hybrid rice developed by a Chinese agricultural scientist ...

I dont' know much about the Chinese agricultural biotech scene, but it seems to be happening.

quote: Just in the April of this year, Chinese scientists decoded the genetic secrets of rice by successfully creating its genome map.

Hey, that wasn't innovation, that was following a process created elsewhere. Another exhibit for my case.

quote: I don't think anybody here on 'Poly has the kind of knowledge to make such a sweeping judgement like yours.

Doesn't stop some of us from making one.

	12-10-2003 21:20									#92
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The rice was a Japanese strain.

A Draft Sequence of the Rice Genome (Oryza sativa L. ssp. indica)

Yup, as I said, you have mistaken it for something else.

	12-10-2003 21:23									#93
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quote: I can't vouch for other areas, but I know firsthand that there's a lot of experiments going on in the fine arts, or at least in traditional Chinese painting.

Oh, you mean after thousands of years, someone has finally painted something other than a bird on a twig, stylized galloping horses, or a goldfish with gauzy fins?

	12-10-2003 21:23									#94
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quote: Originally posted by DanS China was part of the consortium that did it last year. They did 1 chromosome. Taiwan also did 1 chromosome. By comparison, Japan did 6 chromosomes and the US did 3 chromosomes.

Seeing that rice has something like 46 pairs of chromosomes, your numbers seem a bit off.

	12-10-2003 21:26									#95
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: I can't vouch for other areas, but I know firsthand that there's a lot of experiments going on in the fine arts, or at least in traditional Chinese painting. Oh, you mean after thousands of years, someone has finally painted something other than a bird on a twig, stylized galloping horses, or a goldfish with gauzy fins?

My view is, during thousands of years, most of the so called Western innovations were tried and discarded in many areas.

	12-10-2003 21:29									#96
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Rice has 12 chromosomes, not 46. And it appears that the Chinese did sequence a rice genome, but it was only a sub-species common in China. Others had already sequenced other sub-species of rice, making the Chinese accomplishment hella lame.

http://www.bio-itworld.com/news/050702_report263.html

	12-10-2003 21:30									#97
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...

	12-10-2003 21:33									#98
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Looks like a tie.

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020402/020402-6.html

	12-10-2003 21:34									#99
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Plus, here's an analogy. Isaac Newton develops calculus and finds the derivative of x^2. Another person uses calculus to find the derivative of x^3. Doesn't make that other person particularly innovative or special.

	12-10-2003 21:49									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger My view is, during thousands of years, most of the so called Western innovations were tried and discarded in many areas.

This, from a guy who just posted "I don't think anybody here on 'Poly has the kind of knowledge to make such a sweeping judgement"?

quote: so called Western innovations

Why do Chinese, when being defensive, so often fall back on the phrase "so-called"? I see this all the time. By "so-called" are you saying that "most" western innovations were that in name only? Good luck supporting that!

Anyway, I'll take "trying and discarding" over "unable to try" any day of the week.

	12-10-2003 21:52									#101
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Is there a Chinese phrase equating to something like "stealing face"?

	12-10-2003 22:00									#102
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Is there a Chinese phrase equating to something like "stealing face"?

Ha! I've only heard of "giving" and "losing" face, but my Chinese is not very good.

	12-10-2003 23:30									#103
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When one is still behind in the technological race, it's more efficient to use exisiting knowledge than to push into new fields.

One opportunity to move to the lead however, would be in human cloning and stem cell research, where dimwitted US officials have made it artificially hard for American scientists.

	13-10-2003 11:56									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Hm. Hybrid rice developed by a Chinese agricultural scientist doubled the yield of production per unit area for rice. Just in the April of this year, Chinese scientists decoded the genetic secrets of rice by successfully creating its genome map. I don't think anybody here on 'Poly has the kind of knowledge to make such a sweeping judgement like yours.

But I do.

	13-10-2003 11:59									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Japan bests China once again. Hooray!

Japanese agriculture is amazing. They get so much food out of that little island, it's staggering.

	13-10-2003 12:03									#106
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I'd be more impressed if I didn't have to pay out the ass for rice.

	14-10-2003 16:43									#107
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Two questions:

1. Why are they called taikonauts (sp?) - what does this mean?

2. Why do they not show the start live on tv (conspiracy!)? I mean for prestige (and that´s what I think they do it for) this certainly would help a lot....

	14-10-2003 18:24									#108
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taiko= star, I think.

oh, and yeah, the fact that they don't show it on TV sucks.
( Though I love the way the chinese government TV is called CCTV. )

	14-10-2003 18:25									#109
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro 1. Why are they called taikonauts (sp?) - what does this mean?

The Chinese word for space is "tai kong".

And the Russians have "kosmonauts"

	14-10-2003 18:27									#110
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Thanks

	14-10-2003 18:28									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel taiko= star, I think. oh, and yeah, the fact that they don't show it on TV sucks. ( Though I love the way the chinese government TV is called CCTV. )

Oh, and I think it is because they fear the actors could spoil the show in a live report....

	14-10-2003 18:46									#113
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They should hire a hollywood producer, just like the Americans did in that "Apollo" production.

	14-10-2003 19:04									#114
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Actually he was from New York.

	14-10-2003 19:40									#115
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The launch will probably not be televised live for fear of losing world-class face if something goes wrong. Recall the humiliation and public outcry over Japan's two fizzles. This may be a PLA call, not Beijing's (PLA runs the space program).

The first four spaceflights were not publicized until after they successfully returned to Earth!

	14-10-2003 19:43									#116
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What about the ratings?

	14-10-2003 19:47									#117
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quote: When one is still behind in the technological race, it's more efficient to use exisiting knowledge than to push into new fields.

This is quite true. But don't the Chinese take pride in being able to do something that others can't?

If I had $50 million right now, I could go hire the Soyuz. Training included. They would probably even rename the capsule for me and put whatever flag that I like on the side of the rocket. I might think that's great to do, but would gain no pride in being able to do so.

	14-10-2003 19:54									#118
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oh, come on, DanS, the pride is, you do it by yourself.

What would you be more proud of, a house you've bought, or a house you've built...



The question still remains, though, what's so special about carrying a man into space? Why is difficult? IS it difficult?

	14-10-2003 19:56									#119
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quote: What would you be more proud of, a house you've bought, or a house you've built...

That's precisely the point. The technology to do this stuff is part of the "house". And much of it is just a rebadged Russian product.

	15-10-2003 03:25									#120
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: According to the BBC China was recently ranked 96th amoung nations in terms of living conditions and quality of life. Be careful with stats like that. It's dangerous to generalize about China. People in big cities like Shanghai have a standard of living more or less on par with that of large western cities. Meanwhile people in other parts of the country are subsistance farmers. In some ways it's like two distinct nations.

Just like West Virginia, only 1000 times bigger!