15-10-2003 03:30									#121
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quote: Just like West Virginia, only 1000 times bigger!

The Chinese marry their siblings?

	15-10-2003 03:31									#122
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That's precisely the point. The technology to do this stuff is part of the "house". And much of it is just a rebadged Russian product.

the technology maybe is, but manufacturing is Chinese. And it's also a matter of delivering the quality of manufacturing of these things.

It's not as if they got DIY "Man in Space" kits from the Russians.

	15-10-2003 03:38									#123
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker quote: Just like West Virginia, only 1000 times bigger! The Chinese marry their siblings?

The chinese don't have any siblings.

	15-10-2003 03:53									#124
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Dang, beat me to the punch!

	15-10-2003 08:19									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The chinese don't have any siblings.

Or their girl siblings come to the US

	15-10-2003 08:23									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel It's not as if they got DIY "Man in Space" kits from the Russians.

	15-10-2003 08:26									#127
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye There is no question from anyone that the space program is intended Number One as a jewel in China's development crown. You should not underestimate the importance of "face" in Chinese culture. Think about it - in a single ten year span, you have: * China hosting APEC * China joining WTO * Beijing hosting the Olympics (2008) * Shanghai hosting the World Expo (2010) * Construction of the largest dam and hydroelectric project in human history * World's first maglev passenger train * World's 3rd tallest building (2002) and soon, THE tallest (2005). ... and, assuming all goes well, * Manned space flight

My understanding was that the maglev was a project undertaken by a German enr & constr firm, and the tallest building under construction (Union Square Phase 7 due in 2007) is in continuation of a pre-takeover Hong Kong project.

China was admitted to the WTO in hopes of leveraging diplomatic influence to improve workers rights and induce freedom of trade. I suppose most of the Chinese citizens don't realize that, but we should not fool ourselves.

Everybody knows IOC members were falling for the wine, women & song routine (and a few bribes to close the deal) all through the '90s. Can the World Expo be that different?

As for the Three Gorges Dam and Reservoir, it should be an excellent showcase for How To Seriously Screw Up A Delicate And Overburdened Ecology. Chinese face-saving may cost them their arse in the long run.

The long term effects of dams on some of the world's major rivers (Columbia, Nile, Danube) include irreparable damage to salmon spawning, loss of nutrients and vital minerals downstream (the entire Black Sea, for example), silting of reservoir capacity, salt buildup, etc.

It appears these problems are worse the larger the impoundment and flow. Three Gorges will have all these problems to some extent and more nobody has anticipated.

Me? I'm no snail-darter-hugging enviro-wacko, but even average folk are starting to realize that hydro isn't the harmless solution to power generation it once was thought.

I'm also no stereotypical Bigger-Is-Better Yank. The way to control a giant river is control its tributaries with dams, its banks with levees, its populations with evacuation plans, and its economics with insurance investment. Then you roll with the punches.

The Chinese desire to ecclipse the accomplishments of the "barbarians" has ecclipsed their normal caution in solving age-old problems.

	15-10-2003 08:43									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow China was admitted to the WTO in hopes of leveraging diplomatic influence to improve workers rights and induce freedom of trade. I suppose most of the Chinese citizens don't realize that, but we should not fool ourselves.

Have you done any in-depth study of the whole process? I have.

	15-10-2003 10:12									#129
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Dang... where is Ernst Blofeld when you need him?

	15-10-2003 11:00									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Have you done any in-depth study of the whole process? I have.

So you're both in agreement. Good, I like this new UR.

	15-10-2003 11:37									#131
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The Chinese have put a man in space! They've done it, although I guess we got to wait until he's safe on the ground.

Still its an impressive accomplishment for a economically developing country. China has made incredible progress since I first visited it 1981.

A photo of the rocket in the NY Times looks odd. It looks like the thing is falling apart. Anyone know if the debris is normal?

Attachment: 15chin.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	15-10-2003 12:46									#133
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Yes let's all dance and cheer. Now they can oppress human rights in outer space as well.

I am not impressed.

	15-10-2003 13:23									#134
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What a troll

	15-10-2003 13:24									#135
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To think, it probably would have gone unnoticed.

	15-10-2003 13:55									#136
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Good job


Forget the U.S.

Bring on CHINA!

	15-10-2003 14:05									#137
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congrats, China. Nothing special to dance and cheer about, but I hope this will ignite competition. It probably won't though.

	15-10-2003 14:07									#138
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quote: It probably won't though.

Of course it won't. Who's going to compete with the Chinese? America is 50 years ahead and no one else seems to want to waste their money on a manned space program.

	15-10-2003 14:18									#139
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There are a number of countries who could do this, most however would see looking after their people a higher prority.

	15-10-2003 14:27									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: It probably won't though. Of course it won't. Who's going to compete with the Chinese? America is 50 years ahead and no one else seems to want to waste their money on a manned space program.

50 years ahead? this says little. 80-90% of the progress in space exploration has been done in the first two decades of space exploration. And considering the fact that the Chinese are already doing tried and tested stuff, they could catch up on that in less than a decade, if they wanted. Now if the Chinese landed on the Moon, that WOULD spark a space race.

	15-10-2003 14:29									#141
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quote: Now if the Chinese landed on the Moon, that WOULD spark a space race.

I doubt even that would.

	15-10-2003 14:47									#142
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Nah, I think that would. It's one of the things the USA psyche of the last century is built upon: Vietnam, The moon landing, and the Kennedy murder. That's the wibe I've been getting from american art, anyway.

	15-10-2003 14:47									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: It probably won't though. America is 50 years ahead and no one else seems to want to waste their money on a manned space program.

America has slid back in recent years... they're really about where they were in the late '50s in many respects. If that.

A vigorous space program could leapfrog the US within a decade. Not that China is likely to try, though.

	15-10-2003 14:50									#144
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quote: America has slid back in recent years... they're really about where they were in the late '50s in many respects. If that.

Don't remember those late 50's space stations.

	15-10-2003 15:00									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: America has slid back in recent years... they're really about where they were in the late '50s in many respects. If that. Don't remember those late 50's space stations.

Yeah, neither do I.

Anyway, now the Chinese are in space that is more money to be spent on the ISS.

	15-10-2003 15:04									#146
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quote: Anyway, now the Chinese are in space that is more money to be spent on the ISS.

yay for ****ing and stopping in one place.

	15-10-2003 15:42									#147
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In all seriousness and as much as I like to rag on China, I really don't think that this is a waste. Someday, space will be the future (provided people are still around). So any nation that wants to be a major player in it has to start somewhere.

Will it spark another space race? Not yet. As China grows then it is likely. Something's got to light a fire under the US's ass sometime.

Anyway, back to ragging on China:

In a country where comets are seen as an omen of great catastrophe and hard times, isn't sending off rockets kind of like shooting yourself in the foot?

	15-10-2003 15:46									#148
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god, the iss sucks. it's worthless as a research platform, a way station, anything other than a little cylinder to send people up in and leave them there.

quote: The chinese don't have any siblings.

recently, in the backwater regions of china, where abortion is common on female fetuses, the pressure for male offspring to mate has become so great that families are keeping breeding-age females within the family.

	15-10-2003 15:55									#149
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So is that big orange star I see in the sky the rocket? And if so, isn't too far south?

	15-10-2003 16:59									#150
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger There are a number of countries who could do this, most however would see looking after their people a higher prority.

Nah, few other countries could do this. Their leaders lack long term vision. Putting a man in space is the first step of a long voyage. Chinese leaders understand that. Most other leaders can only think about what will this do for me today.

And the idea that the top priority of other world leaders is to look after their people.