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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:24 Visit Asher's homepage!
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iTunes for Windows is out Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

19MB download? Holy bloatware batman! A full install of Winamp is 2.2MB, and it plays videos as well.

The install is typical of the annoying Apple installs we were used to with Quicktime. It doesn't even ask you, it simply installs QuickTime 6.4. Not only that, but it adds some **** to your startup so you have a gloriously useless memory-hogging QuickTime tray icon by default.

It's also somewhat weird how iTunes demanded access to the internet the second I opened it, even at the installation wizard's first screen.

It requires "special" drivers for burning to CDs and DVDs -- huh? What kind of design is this? This also requires a reboot after an install.

The GUI seems to be remarkably inefficient, when I resize the window there is a noticable delay of when I move the mouse to resize and when the window redraws -- and it's choppy when it does so. And the CPU is an Athlon 64 3200+...

It doesn't recognize WMA as an audio format whatsoever, which is somewhat of a pain considering 95% of my audio files are in WMA format. The least they could've done is take a couple hours and simply call DirectSound's WMA decoder, doesn't add to file size nor complicate the program. But I suppose for political reasons they want to shun MS' format and only support MP3 and AAC (no OGG either).

The interface is huge, and virtually uncustomizable. I'm not a fan of the brushed-metal look. There is no equivalent window shade mode (Winamp) or taskbar mode (WMP) I could find, which is annoying for playing it in the background.

It's a resource hog: Playing a simple 4 minute MP3 it uses 32MB of RAM and 3-5% of my Athlon 64 3200+. The exact same song in Winamp 2.91 uses "0%" of my CPU consistently and 7.6MB of RAM.

What am I missing about iTunes' purported greatness?

Last edited by Asher on 17-10-2003 at 00:41

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:37 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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you're missing the fact that it was originally designed to be a mac program.

it's one of the only mac programs capable of doing all it does.

thus, it's great on the mac, but on the pc, where there are numerous lightweight alternatives, many which don't do everything itunes does (do everything badly, or do a few things really well seems to be the design ethic with pcs).

for instance, winamp doesn't have built-in burning capability, nor is it capable of purchasing music.

what it boils down to is this: you and i have been spoiled by the simplicity and light weight of winamp. i believe that you, like me, detest the all-in-one programs, like musicmatch jukebox or kazaa; you probably like windows media player, which i'm not a fan of (too heavy, although the toolbar is nice).

when you stack up any of those programs against a simple player like winamp, they're naturally going to come up lacking.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:40 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
for instance, winamp doesn't have built-in burning capability, nor is it capable of purchasing music.

Winamp can purchase music through the MiniBrowser (which is how the iTunes music store works too)

I don't think the excessive bloatiness of iTunes is worth its built in burning capability, since that's available in WMP (which is also far less of a resource hog) or other programs like Nero, Easy CD Creator, etc.

quote:
you probably like windows media player, which i'm not a fan of (too heavy, although the toolbar is nice).

WMP is my favorite "all in one" program, but I only use it for ripping my CDs. I use Winamp to play them.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:42
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Increase Your PM Length

The fact they sell music to download in a convenient way. Now, if only they could sell the MP3 file and forget about the Mac-ish crap around, they'd do something really phenomenal.

I suppose Apple will manage to lose its marketshare in the legal-MP3-downloading market of the future, because of all the crap it puts with. As an average consumer, if I have to choose between paying €2 for a bare "Nirvana - Rape me.mp3", or paying €2 for the same file, but only readable with a crappy and obnoxious software, guess what I'll choose ? Not Apple

But ITunes is great in the sense it opens the way to legal and massive music downloading. It is a market of the future,and it is the way music will be ditributed in a few years anyway.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:43 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Winamp can purchase music through the MiniBrowser (which is how the iTunes music store works too)

well, i stand corrected. i turn off the minibrowser first thing.

quote:
I don't think the excessive bloatiness of iTunes is worth its built in burning capability, since that's available in WMP (which is also far less of a resource hog) or other programs like Nero, Easy CD Creator, etc.

i don't think the excessive bloatiness (imho) in wmp is worth it either.
nero all the way, and winamp2. winamp3 is bloaty.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:43 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

WMP9 uses 8.5MB of RAM and 2% CPU playing the same song.

Hueij is offline Hueij
Emperor
Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:53
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Inflate your Upload Space

Asher is complaining about bloatware? Complaining about a reboot after installing something??

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 00:54 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Even WMP9 and Office 2003 don't require you to reboot these days.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
The fact they sell music to download in a convenient way. Now, if only they could sell the MP3 file and forget about the Mac-ish crap around, they'd do something really phenomenal.

I suppose Apple will manage to lose its marketshare in the legal-MP3-downloading market of the future, because of all the crap it puts with. As an average consumer, if I have to choose between paying €2 for a bare "Nirvana - Rape me.mp3", or paying €2 for the same file, but only readable with a crappy and obnoxious software, guess what I'll choose ? Not Apple


Um, Spiff... They would be using mp3 if the record companies would allow it. But they aren't: that's why they are using the DRM protected AAC (mp4) format. That's also why all the other legal download services that sell big label music use WMA. The record companies won't let them sell mp3s.

This software isn't really for all Windows users anyway - it's for Windows users who own ipods. Apple won't make that much off the store but they are making heaps from ipod sales.

There was a guy who rang in to a computer show last night on TV and was complaining about all the other services not supporting the ipod. I guess he's happy now.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:09 Visit Asher's homepage!
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AAC isn't MP4...

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:25
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Put an end to popups!

I thought AAC was the audio layer for mp4. All my ripped AAC files have the extension m4e or something like that.

It doesn't make much difference. mp3 is alright for listening to crappy pop music but if you want reasonable audio quality you have to use WMA or AAC (I've never tried ogg). Ripping at 128kb/s is pretty crap too. I usually use 256 or more.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:27
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I was right:

quote:
AAC: MPEG-4 audio

AAC (for Advanced Audio Coding, a big part of the MPEG-4 specification) is the cutting-edge audio codec that’s perfect for the Internet. AAC encoding compresses much more efficiently than older formats like MP3 (which iTunes still supports, by the way), while delivering quality rivaling that of uncompressed CD audio. In fact, some expert listeners have judged AAC audio files compressed at 128 kbps (stereo) to be virtually indistinguishable from the original uncompressed audio source. iTunes 4 and QuickTime (6.2 and higher) are all you need to get started.


http://www.apple.com/itunes/overview.html

ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:29 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Musicmatch Jukebox now has an online music store with identical prices to Apple's store ($.99/track, $9.99/album). Not sure what format they're in, though, as I haven't tried buying anything from it yet.

edit: Ah, they're WMA tracks.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:51
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#14 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just to show that he's a real idiot, during the unveiling Bono called Steve Jobs, "the Dalai Lama of Integration".

Surely there must be an internet archive of dumbass things said by members of U2

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 01:54
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I thought this was funny

http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/

MattH is offline MattH
King
Go sneer at that cow creamer!
Jul 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I thought this was funny

http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/


Howcome you two aren't fighting yet? Cm'on, this is getting dull!

And Damn that site, it's ruining my iTunes experience

What I'd like iTunes for windows to do: (will be updated)
- Minimize to the tray

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 02:52
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Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by MattH

Howcome you two aren't fighting yet? Cm'on, this is getting dull!


Because he's on ignore for telling fibs.

quote:
What I'd like iTunes for windows to do: (will be updated)
- Minimize to the tray


I think that's a fair complaint. We can minimize it to the dock and use it in minimized mode on the desktop. We can also control it via its dock icon. But Windows treats minimized apps differently so it should be altered to accommodate Windows users.

Anyway, hurrah for itunes.

Attachment: picture 1.jpg
This has been downloaded 190 time(s).

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 03:29
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#18 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hell froze over:

Attachment: itunes_sm.jpg
This has been downloaded 179 time(s).

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 04:35
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Suffering from ads?

Agathon - where did you get those icons? Me like!

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:20 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I thought AAC was the audio layer for mp4. All my ripped AAC files have the extension m4e or something like that.

*sigh*
I really wish you wouldn't try to be technical.

There is no audio layer for MP4/MPEG4, it depends on whoever encodes it to decide which format to use. Apple uses AAC, MS uses WMA.

MPEG4 is a video codec, which has nothing to do with AAC.

It'd be like saying MP3 is DivX, because most DivX movies happens to encode the audio in MP3...but DivX is the video codec and is completely unrelated to MP3.

Comprende?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:22
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#21 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Verto
Agathon - where did you get those icons? Me like!


Buy a Macintosh - they're the default system icons. Someone must have converted them to XP. try xicons.com

edit: try http://www.jonmega.com/~iceman/

or try the links on this page

http://thetechnozone.com/pcbuyersgu...WinXP_GUIs.html

Last edited by Agathon on 17-10-2003 at 06:29

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:23 Visit Asher's homepage!
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And I still can't get over how ugly, stupidly designed, and totally uncustomizable the iTunes interface is.

I thought Apple was good at aesthetics?

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:25
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#23 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't like all-in-one programs. Thus it sounds like I won't like iTunes either.

Eh.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:25 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

Notice how Agathon doesn't know how to use his XP desktop.

His taskbar isn't locked, he's not hiding the useless tray icons, and he's using the hideous default theme.

The reason he doesn't like XP is clearly because he's not bright enough to use it properly.

MattH is offline MattH
King
Go sneer at that cow creamer!
Jul 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:26
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Aargh, where did it go?
Disregard post.

MattH is offline MattH
King
Go sneer at that cow creamer!
Jul 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:29
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Asher, he can't read your attacks. Hes got you on ignore.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:34 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I know he reads them.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:37
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Asher, as long as it's brought up and Ag's doing his blood pressure a good thing by ignoring you--who in Microsoft ever thought up that ugly default scheme? It's one of the worst things I've ever seen on a computer, for any program. And to think they'd had a fine look all along, too...yeah, I know you can change it, but, Jesus, the thing is ****ing ugly!

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:40 Visit Asher's homepage!
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A bunch of social-sciencey psychologists choose things like that, I'll never understand their thought-process (or lack thereof )

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 17-10-2003 06:56 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Winamp 5 Beta 1 came out today too! yay!

http://fileforum.betanews.com/detai...?fid=1066336873

 
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