21-10-2003 04:20									#1
	Turn 128 - 10BC - Turn 8 of the war Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To be edited only by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (29) 1 scientist.
- 168 gold + 39gpt
- Slider at 8/0/2 tax/sci/lux

Urgent questions & tasks
- Plans for continuing the war - how best to proceed?
- Do we give CFC contact with CGN?
- What should our new unit build proportions be?
- Safe passage for PoA in GWT's sealanes. Same treaty as with CGN?
-GCA has the GL: how can we stop them from getting Iron to upgrade with/what do we need to beat them if they make a stand in their hill city with many Pikes?

Unit Movement & Actions:


Please be wary of any changes in units in the Army Groups.

Unit Roster

AGA contains: 5 vet MIs (03-07), 3 vet Horses (04-06), 3 vet NMs (08, 13-14), 1 elite Warrior (06), 1 regular Warrior (02) (13 units). {Algalord 7}

AGB contains: 1 elite MI (15), 3 vet MIs (8, 14, 21), 2 vet NMs (15, 16), 1 regular NM (02), 6 Catapults (01-06) (13 units). {Algalord 7}

AGC disbanded.

AGD contains: 6 vet MIs (16, 17, 22-25), 1 vet Horsemen (07), 1 Catapult (07) (8 units). {Algalord 8-7 and 8-8-7}

Damaged units healing behind the front: [None]
War Casualties (19): M01-02, M09-11, M18-20, N06, N09-N12, H01-03, S01-02

Non-War Orders

G01 Princess of Apolyton [WhiteBandit] moves 7-7-8 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB. {Over by GWT}

M12 BigFurryInfantry remains fortified. {southeast of Equilibrium}
M26 Alva moves 1-1-1; going to help with barbs in the west for the time being. {Mingapulco 6}

N01 MerZenary remains fortifies; waiting for barbs in the north. {BFC 7}
N04 Togas moves 6-3-6; helping fend off barbs threatening the road east of Equilibrium. {Equilibrium 4-4-7}
N05 Enamel moves 7-7-8; moving towards the front. {BB 3}
N07 Ghengis moves 9 and fortifies; can protect both Worker pairs and Tripoli from this tile in 1 turn. {BB 8}

W08 not_panag moves 4-4-7; going to protect the colony while Togas deals with barbs to the east. {Equilibrium 6}

War Orders

Worker Yo unable to move. {Algalord 8-8-7}
Worker Rah unable to move. { Algalord 8-8-7}
Slave Anarchy moves 1. {Algalord 8}

G02 Expedition moves 2-2-6; seeming to threaten GCA coast with more units. {Off GCA east coast}

M13 Beta moves 6-3-3. {Elucidium}
M27 'Bananatopia' moves 2-2-3. {Nevermore}

H08 'BFC II' moves 2-2-2-2-1-2 {BFC}
H09 'Incensity II' moves 2-2-1-1-1-1 {Incensity}

N17 'Mingapulco' moves 1-2-2. {Karina}
N18 'Hispanica' moves 2-2-3 {Hispanica}
N19 'Tripoli' moves 4-4-4 {Tripoli}

C08 'Heart of Darkness' moves 2-2-2. {Cuido}

W12 WWNN moves 2; watching the hills to the west. {Northwest of Algalord}

H04 Trip's Guard II moves 6-2 and attacks the GCA Horseman which pillaged the road (if it exists).
H05 Mingapulco moves 2 to see what can be seen of the GCA army, then moves 8 to return to the stack if not needed to attack anything.

AGA moves 2 to heal. {Algalord 7}

AGB moves 2 to heal. {Algalord 7}

AGD moves 2-2 (2-2-2) to assemble. {Algalord 8-7 (and 8-8-7)}

All other units to remain as they are.

Please take all discussion on the war to the Turn-by-Turn thread.


Economy:
Apolyton - Building Horseman (turn 2 of 3).
Mingapolco - Building Horseman (turn 2 of 3).
Bananatopia - Settler built, start building Marketplace (turn 1 of 10 conjectured).
Incensity - Horseman built, start building Horseman (turn 1 of 4).
Nevermore - Building Worker (turn 8 of 10).
Tripoli - Num Merc built, start building ??Num Merc?? (turn 1 of 3).
Equilibrium - Building Courthouse (turn 3 of 80 schedualed).
Cuildo de Alcohol - Building Settler (turn 8 of 10).
Hispanica - Num Merc built, start building Horseman (turn 1 of 5).
Possumopolis - Builting Catapult (4 of 5).
Karina - Building Cat (turn 7 of 9).
LuxInvicta - Settler built, start building Worker (turn 1 of 4 schedualled).
Big Bend - Building Catapult (10 of 12 schedualled).
BigFurryCity - Horseman built, start building ??Num Merc?? (turn 1 of 3)
Heart of Darkness - Building Catapult (turn 3 of 4).

WF:
These WF setting WILL MOST LIKELY change IF we have a GA triggered this turn!!
Apolyton - (Grows to size 5) starting WF ??3??-8-13-14-17. Change WF to 3-5-8-13-14 (Working Game).
Mingapulco - starting WF 2-5-8-9-10. NC.
Bananatopia - (Grows to size 9, then settler built, now size 7) starting WF ??2-3-4-5-6-14-15-19 (working game).?? Change WF to 2-3-4-5-14-15-16.
Incensity - starting WF 4-5-7-17. Change WF to 5-6-7-17.
Nevermore - starting WF 7. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-4-7-9-17. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF scientist. NC.
Cuildo de Alcohol - starting WF 10-19. NC.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-4-20. NC.
Possumopolis - starting WF 7-14. NC.
Karina - starting WF 6-11. NC.
LuxInvicta - (settler built, size 3) starting WF ??3-5-14. Change WF to 5-7-11.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3. Change WF to 1-8.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-10-11-13. NC.

Workers:
Horse & Squid - start clearing Jungle (6 turns).
Mark & Otto - move 1-2 to Karina 4 (WF #7), will start to clear next turn.
Frodo & Out of Darkness - tile cleared, Out of Darkness is frozen. Frodo starts to Mine (3 turns), Out of Darkness will start to road next turn. Both will finish at the same time and be back in sync.
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC & Dejon) - move 1-1 to Tripoli 7 (WF #8) and Mine (done).
Spike & panag - 2 turns left to clear.
Dan & Gits - 3 turns left to clear.
Monkee & CalcII - 5 turns left to clear.
Lib & Slave Farb - 6 turns left to clear.
Yo & rah (under direction of MoW) - Hill roaded, workers frozen.
Slave Anarchy - Under direction of MoW


Diplomacy:
GCA: WAR
CFC: Allied against GCA (not in game, Peace in game)
CGN: Peace
GWT: Peace

Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 24-10-2003 at 12:09

	21-10-2003 17:03									#2
	Tired of ads?

Please rename the units named after a letter in the alphabet according to the following name list.

(see also Ministry of Lexicography thread)


Bambi
Kermit (in honour of the Grenouille team)
Robin (named after Kermit's nephew)
Igor (named after the world's cycling champion)
Donald (named after the world's most popular duck)
Jean-Luc (named after a certain star ship captain)
Waiter / Taxi (these names are so nice to yell on the street -- I know someone who gave her two cats these names)

	22-10-2003 00:59									#3
	Suffering from ads?

I was going to do it last turn BFM, but with the controversy, I forgot about it. Sorry. If I play it this time around, I will make sure it happens.

	22-10-2003 17:58									#5
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from the previous turn report....

21) N2 'Mao' fortified
22) W6 'Hagbart' fortified
23) N? 'roadcage' fortified
.................

The family is all gathered
waiting for the save

Our only son's in harms way
waiting for the save

Training's test is nigh
waiting for the save

Do your best is all we ask
waiting for the save
.................

May God defend the right, and the way of the Pale Blue

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	22-10-2003 21:36									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

GCA is holding the save?

Is this retribution for our holding of the save and their questioning? Are there diabolical forces again at work? Or are they polling on abandoning Algalord?

	22-10-2003 21:42									#7
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All but the WF orders are done. I'll get them done sometime this evening.

quote: from 1BC Time Counter Thread The Gamecatcher Alliance will be holding the save for the moment. We do not expect the save being played before today late evening (CET). More likely tomorrow. -------- Lucky

I should have enough time to get it done before we get the save. I'll post when It is done.

MoI E_T

	22-10-2003 22:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel GCA is holding the save? Is this retribution for our holding of the save and their questioning? Are there diabolical forces again at work? Or are they polling on abandoning Algalord?

Their army is weak to CFC. CFC has hardly an army at all.

They're probably frantically trying to decide what to do to stay in the game.

	22-10-2003 22:19									#9
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Shame we didn't get CFC to investigate Algalord, although from the army numbers it seems like there wouldn't have been much point. CFC must surely realise that there is absolutely no future for them in this game, and they don't even have much chance of holding us up, incredible luck or not. No army, no chance for unit replacement, no chance for allies or reinforcements - perhaps they trying to decide whether to give up.

	22-10-2003 22:24									#10
	Put an end to popups!

They said they'd fight us to the very end and make sure we got nothing from attacking them.

I don't see them deviating from that path. They realized they couldn't win the moment we crossed the border.

	22-10-2003 23:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel GCA is holding the save? Is this retribution for our holding of the save and their questioning? Are there diabolical forces again at work? Or are they polling on abandoning Algalord?

That is exactly what they are doing.

	23-10-2003 01:07									#12
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If they decide to keep fighting for Alagord, I fully expect to see our GA triggered. If they are able to attack again with similar "luck" as last turn, it would be extremely suspicious, even without hard evidence (as of yet). Once the GA is triggered, even with such "luck" they cannot hold out for long.

	23-10-2003 03:18									#13
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At some point, they may just resign from the game to turn their lands into a no-man's-land, but I don't figure (in the end) that they'll make it that easy for us.

It's more likely, I believe, that they will hole up in Catchopolis or something and hold on as long as they can after upgrading spears to pikes (assuming they do that).

If they don't, we cheer

	23-10-2003 04:37									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Perhaps their polling on which player on the other contientant to gift their cities too?

	23-10-2003 04:42									#15
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We would attack and capure/raze it either way. Such a tactic by GCA would only get their forces in Algalord transported to Catchopolis and not save Algalord itself. Algalord would be empty.

	23-10-2003 09:55									#16
	Got spare money?

We got word from mongoose that GCA asked him to check our save, and that is at least part of the reason for the delay. They are also reportedly "throwing a tantrum"....

Put that piece of info together with their miserable strength against even CFC, and they maybe decideing how much to abandon right now.

	24-10-2003 00:23									#18
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The MoI stuff for this turn is all up, please look and comment.

E_T

	24-10-2003 01:05									#19
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt We got word from mongoose that GCA asked him to check our save, and that is at least part of the reason for the delay. They are also reportedly "throwing a tantrum"....

They probably didn't realize their city walls would be destroyed before the attack. 3.5 spearmen would have killed alot more MIs.

	24-10-2003 07:33									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt We got word from mongoose that GCA asked him to check our save, and that is at least part of the reason for the delay. They are also reportedly "throwing a tantrum"....

There is a god!

(Actually, I threw a tantrum once. They are pretty heavy though, and I put my back out...)

	24-10-2003 10:05									#21
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Turn halted

How many people are aware that last turn we violated GWT's borders with the Princess of Apolyton? How many people are aware that there is no agreement in place to cover that eventuality?

It was posted in last turns orders, it is shown in last turn's shots, but there was no discussion of the issue in the slightest.

Now, GWT are not the sort of people to welcome such liberties. In fact, they have been known to hold very big grudges about it. I have asked about it in chat. The answers I got were... not satisfying.

I am not going to play this turn until someone comes forward to explain just what the hell is going on, just who decided to drive that ship there, and at what point the FAM in particular, and the team in general were consulted about it.

	24-10-2003 10:13									#22
	Got spare money?

btw, to this point we have advanced H Mingapulco to Catchopolis 8 8, and attacked a fortified spear at Catch 8 9 with 2 horse (TripG2 and Incensity). Both horse retreated after inflicting a single pip of damage (each) on the spear.

	24-10-2003 11:57									#23
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Turn halted How many people are aware that last turn we violated GWT's borders with the Princess of Apolyton? How many people are aware that there is no agreement in place to cover that eventuality?

GAH! Didn't know that! I have unluckily missed the last few times the save has miraculously appeared and been heavily active when it has been stalled somewhere. The agreement is being addressed, you know that.

MZ - any word from GWT about this? Did you send them the message as per the GWT FAM thread?

[/QUOTE]
It was posted in last turns orders, it is shown in last turn's shots, but there was no discussion of the issue in the slightest.
[/QUOTE]

Have never waited for the screenshots to load up on my slow-ass dial-up, so I did not see this. I only skimmed through the workforce and GCa front military orders when reviewing the posted orders.

quote: Now, GWT are not the sort of people to welcome such liberties. In fact, they have been known to hold very big grudges about it. I have asked about it in chat. The answers I got were... not satisfying. I am not going to play this turn until someone comes forward to explain just what the hell is going on, just who decided to drive that ship there, and at what point the FAM in particular, and the team in general were consulted about it.

Part of the problem is of course GWT's incredibly slow rate of communication. I doubt, were we to have emailed them about this a week ago, we would have got a response on it by now. However this is of course no excuse.

All I can do for the moment is entrate the Foreign Ministry to send a message to GWT ASAP and request we get to an arrangement about this NOW.

	24-10-2003 12:36									#24
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The problem is not a problem, IMO. It's GTW's own fault for not responding to our messages. They seem to get and paly the turn ok, but they take weeks to respond to messages? Whatever.

GWT will be floating through our waters soon. I think one of the reasons they have not responded to this point is that they were waiting till their Galley got in range of our waters before requesting a mutual Coastal Water RoP with us.

It is pretty normal for them to expect us to want to travel "safely" around their continent. If they wanted something in return, then they should have comunicated with us and began discussions. I'm not about to just let a Galley sit there forever, especially if they are simply not responding to us. It could be that their Ambassador is at fault and has either not realyed our messages to the rest of the team, or he forgot t send us a message that it was ok for us to travel there. Since GWT has yet to contact us about this either way, I might bet on the latter. It has been nearly 72 hours since GWT got the save and saw our Galley inside their borders.

Besides, why do we need to walk on eggs shells with these guys? CGN and GWT are at each others throats and will be until the end of the game. Whether there's a Cold War or not between during this game for a certain periosd of time is still to be determined, but they will not be Allies, in a military sense, in this game, you can take that to the bank.

	24-10-2003 12:50									#25
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I have not received reply from GWT even with regards to the first PM I sent them. Nor was I consulted at this move when it was done.

Honestly if they thought it was such a big a deal they would have PMed us back about it. They haven't. Their galley eventually has to cross through our borders so I doubt they'd be dumb enough to not let us pass and yet expect us to let THEM pass.

Since no one in the chat really discussed this issue either when it was brought up, all I can say is we should keep the galley where it is this turn. I can send a small apologetic note to GWT saying we goofed last turn and accidentally moved it into their territory before getting an answer to the naval RoP we requested. Until we get a response we will leave it there and should they refuse we will send it back on its way.

Again, I don't think this is something that will blow out of proportion since GWT's own interests in exploring are at stake. However, I do agree with nye that the FAM needs to be consulted on these things beforehand since nothing in the turnthread indicated that the galley was in fact going to violate GWT's territory.

	24-10-2003 13:54									#26
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The FAM should also review the turn thread for orders that may contradict what they know about certain issues. But, again, I do not see this a any sort of real problem for APolyton.

	24-10-2003 14:47									#27
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree The FAM should also review the turn thread for orders that may contradict what they know about certain issues. But, again, I do not see this a any sort of real problem for APolyton.

The problem is that the turn threads said nothing about violating borders. In this and last one, PoA's moves were mentioned with the following: {Over by GWT}. "Over by GWT" can mean anything from near their continent to right smack next to their capital. It is the FAM's job to review the turn threads but not to check every single unit move to see if they violate someone's borders since the person who posted those moves most likely saw that they would indeed cross illegally. In all likelihood that person simply forgot, then the person who played the turn should have informed the FAM but if the move was posted perhaps it was assumed that the FAM had been consulted and had agreed upon it. This was a small error of communication, nothing more.

Let's not make a big issue out of this. In the chat I sensed some people were more intent on laying blame than figuring out what to do with the galley. I honestly don't think that this will be a serious issue with regards to GWT. If GWT doesn't answer by tomorrow morning I think we should simply skip PoA's turn and send them a little apology and that's it. We cannot be hamstrung by their failure to respond, and if crossing their borders was such a big deal they would have surely made a fuss about it already.

Those krauts are really wierd.

	24-10-2003 15:45									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I agree 100% MZ.

I will take the blame if it makes anyone feel better.

	24-10-2003 16:18									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

All talk and no play makes for a dull game.

And while playing try to make our actions consistent within the historical context. We are by the game calendar 10 bc. A very rough and tumble period for mankind. We are by tech tree slightly ahead of this by my estimate. I can assure you that if a trireme of the period by either clock, were to find themselves in our predicament, they would not wait out at sea (skip turn).

I believe that there are posted orders for this unit.

I have not heard one valid reason whatsoever for not executing same.

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	24-10-2003 22:52									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Then play the turn. However, the fact of the galley being there was not the only problem. In chat, answers to my questions about it did less than make me confident with the situation.

I will not be available for another 8 or so hours, but if that galley is removed from GWT's territory I have no problem with the turn proceeding.