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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 04:51 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Study: Sexuality hard-wired by Genetics Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/2...reut/index.html

quote:
Study: Sexual identity hard-wired by genetics

Monday, October 20, 2003 Posted: 10:06 AM EDT (1406 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Sexual identity is wired into the genes, which discounts the concept that homosexuality and transgender sexuality are a choice, California researchers reported on Monday.

"Our findings may help answer an important question -- why do we feel male or female?" Dr. Eric Vilain, a genetics professor at the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine, said in a statement. "Sexual identity is rooted in every person's biology before birth and springs from a variation in our individual genome."

His team has identified 54 genes in mice that may explain why male and female brains look and function differently.

Since the 1970s, scientists have believed that estrogen and testosterone were wholly responsible for sexually organizing the brain. Recent evidence, however, indicates that hormones cannot explain everything about the sexual differences between male and female brains.

Published in the latest edition of the journal Molecular Brain Research, the UCLA discovery may also offer physicians an improved tool for gender assignment of babies born with ambiguous genitalia.

Mild cases of malformed genitalia occur in 1 percent of all births -- about 3 million cases. More severe cases -- where doctors can't inform parents whether they had a boy or girl -- occur in one in 3,000 births.

"If physicians could predict the gender of newborns with ambiguous genitalia at birth, we would make less mistakes in gender assignment," Vilain said.

Using two genetic testing methods, the researchers compared the production of genes in male and female brains in embryonic mice -- long before the animals developed sex organs.

They found 54 genes produced in different amounts in male and female mouse brains, prior to hormonal influence. Eighteen of the genes were produced at higher levels in the male brains; 36 were produced at higher levels in the female brains.

"We discovered that the male and female brains differed in many measurable ways, including anatomy and function." Vilain said.

For example, the two hemispheres of the brain appeared more symmetrical in females than in males. According to Vilain, the symmetry may improve communication between both sides of the brain, leading to enhanced verbal expressiveness in females.

"This anatomical difference may explain why women can sometimes articulate their feelings more easily than men," he said.

The scientists plan to conduct further studies to determine the specific role for each of the 54 genes they identified.

"Our findings may explain why we feel male or female, regardless of our actual anatomy," said Vilain. "These discoveries lend credence to the idea that being transgender --- feeling that one has been born into the body of the wrong sex -- is a state of mind."


Well, most people already knew it wasn't a choice.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 04:56
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This study is bullshit. It is made up just to "back-up" the pro-gay agenda. It is a yet another perfect example of science being used to excuse immoral behavior.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 04:58
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Isn't this kind of obvious? Every human behaviour is hard-wired by genetics. That's what genes are for.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Osweld
Isn't this kind of obvious? Every human behaviour is hard-wired by genetics. That's what genes are for.


No. Genes determine physical traits and biophysical processes, not behavior.

If genes did determine human behavior, then what about free-will? Did my genes make me kill that person, or lie, or cheat on my spouse? Of course not.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:03 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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Wonder what's the scientific explaination of being "furry"

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
This study is bullshit. It is made up just to "back-up" the pro-gay agenda. It is a yet another perfect example of science being used to excuse immoral behavior.


Says the stupid creationist. Creationists shouldn't even be allowed to talk about science.

Osweld, Human behavior doesn't come from our genes, it is influenced by them. I view the genes as making the rough shape of the "sculpture" of one's personality, and the fine points are from enviroment. For example, Saddam may have been born naturally agressive, but it took the abusive, violent relative he was raised by to turn him into a bloody tyrant.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
Says the stupid creationist. Creationists shouldn't even be allowed to talk about science.


Evolutionists are the ones who should be banned from science. They are the ones that pervert, distort, and misuse it.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat

If genes did determine human behavior, then what about free-will? Did my genes make me kill that person, or lie, or cheat on my spouse? Of course not.


The brain doesn't actually think in abstract thoughts, it thinks in neurons, chemicals, and all that crap. Our thoughts are just the result of an analyse of our environment or situation - it's the way our brain fires it's chemicals around that determines what the conclusion is.

If the human brain doesn't fall in to the category of "physical traits and biophysical processes" I don't know what does... or do you believe that we're actually a supernatural entity, merely inhabiting a human shell?

Odin is offline Odin
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Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat


Evolutionists are the ones who should be banned from science. They are the ones that pervert, distort, and misuse it.


Get your head out of the sand and read the last qoute in my sig.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:16 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This study seems to confirm that men and women are different. Oh wait, we already knew that.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:18 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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quote:
Evolutionists are the ones who should be banned from science. They are the ones that pervert, distort, and misuse it



Of course it is more rational to believe that we were created from clay and spit

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:22 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
This study seems to confirm that men and women are different. Oh wait, we already knew that.

Indeed, and it also confirms that homosexuals are different. We already knew that, too.

It's just that certain insecure religious zealots maintain it's a choice, probably because they feel attraction towards the same sex but "choose not to act on it", which also explains their pent-up hostility towards homosexuals.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:23 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Hey let's not jack this thread. Asher is trying to prove here that something in his jeans, er I mean genes, that makes him the way he is. Let's stick to the point!

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:36 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
This study is bullshit. It is made up just to "back-up" the pro-gay agenda. It is a yet another perfect example of science being used to excuse immoral behavior.


pathetic troll

I just love that term

Wittlich is offline Wittlich

Emperor
A Wyandot lost in "The City" SF,CA
Dec 2000
time: 21:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:43
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Ok, this question needs to be asked...so I'll ask it.

If this study is true, then I have no choice to be who and what I am...so on this same line of thought, how can homosexuality be wrong (or a sin for that matter)?

Wittlich waits for Ben to walk in...

Neutrino is offline Neutrino
Settler
Austin, Texas, USA
Jun 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:44
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Behavior has a genetic basis. The extent that genes control behavior depends on the specific type of behavior. Phenotype = Genotype + Environmental factors. Behavior is a phenotype.

I can guarantee that if you take 2+ years of college biology classes, you will come to know that evolution is true and that it cannot be statistically disproved.

I'm sure my Behavioral Ecology professor will bring up this topic in class and assign us the paper the scientists wrote to read. If that happens soon then I'll post my opinion of it here, and what I think of the way they arrived at this conclusion.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:45
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The article and thread title should read:

Study: Gender hard-wired by genetics

Even that might be an overstatement of the importance of the study, but where was there any indication of sexual preference in the article at all? It was all about gender, and I seriously doubt that there was a follow up questionaire of the mice in order to ascertain their sexual preferences. I note that the statement by the researcher was perhaps accurate, but that the homosexual thing was brought into the article by the journalist. Not proven, not even close.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:47
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So, Asher, does this study mean you have the brain of a woman in a body of man ?

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/2...reut/index.html



Well, most people already knew it wasn't a choice.


so how come you changed your mind (sort of)?

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:49 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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He also just threw a monkey wrench into femenism. There must be a mistake somewhere. That is certainly not politically correct.

Wittlich is offline Wittlich

Emperor
A Wyandot lost in "The City" SF,CA
Dec 2000
time: 21:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:49
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Sikander, here is the begining of the article again with the homosexuality part bolded so that you will not miss it:

quote:
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Sexual identity is wired into the genes, which discounts the concept that homosexuality and transgender sexuality are a choice, California researchers reported on Monday.


EDIT: If you will notice, the article states that this is what the researchers reported - not the journalist.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:51 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
So, Asher, does this study mean you have the brain of a woman in a body of man ?

That would be someone that feels that they're transgendered.

But it is entirely likely that I have a brain more similar to that of a woman's than a man's, which would certainly explain attraction to the same sex.

The point is, not only testosterone and estrogen separate males and females.

Proving that men and women, and indeed gay men and straight men, have different genes and brain structures go a long way in determining if it's a choice or not.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:56
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I don't doubt homosexuality is not a choice (well, acting on the homosexual inclination is a choice, but I see nothing wrong with that )
But to say it is "hard wired" by genetics is quite an overstatement, especially when the study to corroborate your claim is an article explaining that brains are genetically different between males and females.
We knew for a few years now both sexes have different brains already...

Method is offline Method
Emperor
/me goes to France
Feb 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 06:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
No. Genes determine physical traits and biophysical processes, not behavior.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 06:06 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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I dunno, when I was a kid I liked boobies

Space05us is offline Space05us
King

Nov 2001
time: 17:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 06:18
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quote:
This study is bullshit. It is made up just to "back-up" the pro-gay agenda. It is a yet another perfect example of science being used to excuse immoral behavior.


on the contrary now you can go tell everyone that it is in fact a disease, scientists say so!


Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wittlich
Sikander, here is the begining of the article again with the homosexuality part bolded so that you will not miss it:

EDIT: If you will notice, the article states that this is what the researchers reported - not the journalist.


Look, a lot of what this study says it proves was already well-known in regards to gender. We have known the mechanism for gender for a very long time, and we have also been able to measure the differences in men's brains vs womens brains. This study simply shows that at least some of this happens earlier than previously proven (but not theorized or even observed). Yay. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with someone's sexuality, where there is strong correlation between gender and sexual preference (what, about 90% or so) and as yet no proof of causation for any sexual preference, straight, gay or bi.

As for the journalist, he / she / it knows what sells. This is why the homosexual thing is in the title as well as the first line, yet is not mentioned again in the article. Note also that it is not a quote, but seemingly an impression that the journalist had about the research. Show me the article that the NY Times writes about this study (if they bother) and perhaps we can take some actual information from it and have a discussion.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I don't doubt homosexuality is not a choice (well, acting on the homosexual inclination is a choice, but I see nothing wrong with that )
But to say it is "hard wired" by genetics is quite an overstatement, especially when the study to corroborate your claim is an article explaining that brains are genetically different between males and females.
We knew for a few years now both sexes have different brains already...


See, Spiffor understands this completely, and English isn't his first language.

yavoon is offline yavoon
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Oct 2001
time: 05:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 07:18
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just as well have a study say that. I'm surprised this isnt like getting funding for determining the differences between the races.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 07:32 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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Yavoon is it an impression of mine or you just can't avoid posting stupid things

 
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