21-04-2004 15:26									#91
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How about a Minimal Production game?

No mines, no railroads where they'll raise shield production, no turning/transforming tiles into Mountains/Forests by any means, no KRC, no Hoover Dam, no Factories, no Power Plants, no Hydro Plants, no Nuclear Plants, no Solar Plants, no Manufacturing Plants, no Offshore Platforms, and two optional rules:

1: Tiles generating shields may not be worked until all the other tiles are being worked, or maybe not until after a certain restriction(tech? number of cities? number of citizens in the city? a ratio of non-shield tiles to shield tiles?)

2: If Republic or Democracy is researched, you must switch to it, increasing support costs.

Win by spaceship launch. (wouldn't be able to join in though as I only have ToT)

	21-04-2004 18:12									#92
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Not experienced in creating succession games, forgive me if these are dumb. (or have been tried allready)

1. A Bloodlust game similar to the current Democracy game, ( Stu for the map) start on a 1 city size island with 7-8 ocean squares to the nearest mainland. The game would have to be OCC until caravels then WAR afterward. Spotless rep and No peace would be good rules too IMO

2. RABBID REPUBLIC
Make for republic ASAP then begin a conquest game where you must stay in republic.

3. Total conquest
Where you MUST destroy the AI AND land on AC the same turn for the double victory. (this could placate those who have been wanting a AC game yet give us warmongers something to do.)

	21-04-2004 20:31									#93
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For the warmongers: pre-1000 conquest game

For the peacemakers: pacifist challenge

For the perfectionists: no-wonders AC game

All games:
- Normal size maps
- 0-1 starting techs
- Free-For-All (max time overnite Mon-Thurs, weekend Fri-Sun)

	21-04-2004 23:12									#94
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@ Zedd - Numerically challenged ?

Stu

	21-04-2004 23:48									#95
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I think the challenge was dexterity in that case.

	22-04-2004 08:25									#96
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I suppose you could do the opposite end of the spectrum too...Minimal Trade/Science Game.

No roads on tiles that will raise trade, no caravans, no freights, no working/spawning trade specials, no marketplaces, no banks, no stock exchanges, no libraries, no universities, no research labs, no courthouses(except in Democracy, they must be scrapped after switching govts though), no superhighways, no Adam Smith's, no Collosus, no Darwin's, no GL, no Issac's, no Seti, no republic, no democracy.

Again, win by spaceship launch.

	22-04-2004 12:43									#97
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What a masochistic crew we are this fine morning ...

	22-04-2004 13:05									#98
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I still like Stu's "Oxbridge" suggestion. Obviously once you get to fundy, then the absence of unhappiness would make it easy, so maybe ban this. You could allow one "cox" per eight, so a single Elvis/tax collector/Einstein is allowed, but the cities must get to size eight, and stay there. Maybe once eight is reached, then there must be four light and four dark blues in each city. Emphasis on seafaring techs to get the boat race going...
Basically, read Stu's post somewhere above for his, probably better, version of this, whence I stole all the ideas.

	22-04-2004 19:26									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits What a masochistic crew we are this fine morning ...

Couldn't agree more. Some of this makes my hair hurt.

BTW, the group has played a no-trade game before (though probably less restrictive than this proposal) but it was conquest. Played as English, island start, Aztecs the final AI, won by siege/shield-starvation. If memory serves, there was not much research done beyond the mid-fold of the tech tree poster. Doing this as a space race...I just don't know.

Monk

	22-04-2004 20:45									#100
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Here's something I haven't seen -- the Scardy Cats.

Build no city more than three spaces away from a neighbor, search no more than twice that -- six spaces away from a settlement. (No map exchanges, of course)

ICS up to the max cities, but...if we're on a Giga map, conquest might be a challenge (might have to disband cities to allow for regrowth for conquest.) Sounds like a slow steady stay at home on a rainy day sort of game.

Put this on a slow pile for those truly desparate for something different. As for me, I think I'll start Romp -- the early conquest game previously advertised (unless someone else starts it before I get home -- and after my turn in the latest Free For All (which will be finishd tonight.))

	23-04-2004 13:36									#101
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That sounds like standard ICS. You build a city, and then can search 6 spaces away. You found another city 3 spaces away, and can then explore 6 spaces away from that. Unless you've got neighbours on the same continent, then you won't get contact until very late int he game, and it'd be impossible to win by conquest because you could never leave your island, unless there was another within 6 spaces, and somewhere within 3 to build a city between the 2. Unless you went for an AC victory or played on a pangea (sp?).

	23-04-2004 17:01									#102
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Another idea...Ascending Conquest Succession Game.

Deity or harder, Raging Hoards or worse, Bloodlust on, restarting players on.

Standard Conquest game. However, if at any point in the game you loose any city at all under any circumstances, including one you just captured, game over.

Another idea would be to play a cheiftain succession game on a giga map just to see how badly the AI can loose.

	23-04-2004 18:38									#103
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If you want a Chieftain challenge, then try to beat willemvanoranje's record score in the CFC Hall of Fame. It's mighty!

Mind you, there are excellent scores on both Chieftain and Deity, but the levels between are little catered for. When I still played on playstation Civ 2 I scored a record at prince level, and the playstation version has half the maximum number of cities that the PC game does. Unfortunately, being only on a memory card, I couldn't post it there. But by all means have a go at these records.

	27-04-2004 19:46									#104
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OK, as soon as I get a decent map I think I'll start this one.

1. Usual Raging-Diety-7civs
2. No monarchy, Republic ASAP
3. No Leo’s, GL, SL, or Sun Tzu's
4. Civ rivalry ( 1st civ we find must be destroyed before we meet ANY kings)
5. Total conquest, AC landing + AI annihilation.


Sound Fun?

	27-04-2004 23:09									#105
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Zedd, I think we'll need a refresher about the timing for the last one -- I've never worked that one out.

Otherwise, ...

As far as civ rivalry is concerned, why not simply call for the destruction of the key civ (at all times -- Restarts on?) -- if we're somewhere below Supreme, the key civ might change a bit allowing a fickle war effort (recall 1984?)

Or maybe a Clark Kent/Avis game -- win by conquest, but never be supreme.

	27-04-2004 23:33									#106
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Zedd,

Not sure I understand the rules, especially #4.

On the other hand...

With several games currently going--AND WANTING FOR FOLK TO PLAY A TURNSET--perhaps, you might consider holding this for a bit and playing a set or two in the currently open games. Just a thought....

Monk

	28-04-2004 17:32									#107
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Had hoped it would be a good idea, but i will have to hold off anyway, RL work just got crazy and I don't think I'll be joining in much for a little while.

#4 was essentialy refuse all diplomatic contact with the AI UNTIL you destroy the first civ you meet. I thought it might sufficiently hinder early tech trading to make the game a bit more challenging.

	28-04-2004 17:52									#108
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I wasn't sure that you could refuse first contact. I appreciate that if you have already met the civ in question, then it is possible for you to tell them to go away if they come calling again, but didn't think that you could tell them to go away without knowing who they are.

	02-05-2004 21:33									#109
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Here's one that would be hard to play in practice, but sort of came to me while watching the news.

In Republic and Democracy, of course, the Senate limits how long a war can last and when the leader can start a war. Additionally, in those governments, civil unrest limits how many units can be in the field. My proposal is to restrict ourselves even further. Call it a limited military game, or an uber-Senate game I suppose.

Rules would be along the lines of:

First Research target is Republic, then Demo. As soon as we learned those governments, we'd revolt to them in the next oedo year. Monarchy is an acceptable interim step to Republic, but no commie/fundy.

Once in Republic/Demo, all offensive military units (attack > defensive) would be disbanded. None can be built while at peace.

Our peace-time military would be limited to 0-attack units (freight, engineers, transports etc) and defensive units (defense rating >= attack rating) equal to 1/2 our city count. Those defenders can be allocated anywhere, of course.

In peace, no use of spies/diplos except to create embassies.

We cannot provoke war - must remain spotless. No dirty tricks (units wandering through enemy territory and phantom demands to withdraw) to provoke war, either.

In the event of being attacked, we could build as many offensive and defensive units as we wished (mobilization). All diplo/spy functions would be permitted except city bribe. But we would have to accept peace when proffered, and would have to disband 1/3 of the surplus units each turn thereafter (reflecting the demobilization process).

To make it harder, we could require this to be a conquest win.

And naturally, playing on raging hordes could make things even tougher

	03-05-2004 01:04									#110
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Perhaps add something about accepting or rejecting war due to "diplomatic incidents"?

	03-05-2004 18:03									#111
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That sounds OK to me, although I would like to say that even durring peace time you should be able to BUILD spy's but only use them for city spy, creating embassy's, and unit bribing.

	03-05-2004 19:26									#112
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No, I was referring to when the AI steals a tech from you with a Dip and you get the "Diplomatic Incident - declare war?" option.

	04-05-2004 13:24									#113
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You would have to go to war to protect the interests of your allies "until they were under no further danger from their aggressors".
This could be until they either agree a cease-fire with whichever civ attacked them, or until all of that civ's units are "removed" from the area.
I think that you should be able to have a standing army to deal with dangerous barb leaders, etc. Perhaps a limit of one offensive unit per city under Democracy, and one per each two cities under Republic. I also reckon that just disbanding the troops in the field is a bad idea. They should be made to return to the nearest cities, and then the reservists would be put back to work on whatever white good project they had been taken from.

	04-05-2004 14:25									#114
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Oh boy! And they could be done so by obligatory use of the automatic "Return unit to home city" function! I can't recall ever using that option in any of my games, ever...

	04-05-2004 20:32									#115
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Duke,
But I like the idea of staying with just defensive units until "mobilization" It would just mean being smart about what units you pick.

	04-05-2004 20:52									#116
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Interesting "Defensive Units" Att=Def:
-Land: Fanatics, Partisans, Alpine, MechInf
-Naval: Ironclad, Destroyer, Cruiser/AEGIS, Battleship


But if you say Att < Def, all you get is Phalanx, Pike, Explorer, Galleon and Transport.

Last edited by Elephant on 04-05-2004 at 20:57

	05-05-2004 02:35									#117
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Just a few random thoughts for Six's "Peaceful Society"

Better put us on a large rock -- else we can cover our land & have few problems until the modern era.

We could be in monarchy for a long while -- allowing the [SG]1 & other RARers the opportunity to 'clear some conuntryside'.

I assume that we can bribe a barb archer, hack & slash & disband at the end of the turn/a barb incursion might be construed as opposing military activity (aka "war")

(Elephant -- I saw >= in Six's posts, so muskets get the call; rifles will have to go away, Alpines rule!) Maybe serious war may have to wait until stealth fighters...)

And I also assume that we can maintain militia during the despo years...

	05-05-2004 13:07									#118
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Well you can't have A) until we got Bronze Working.

Last edited by duke o' york on 05-05-2004 at 13:18

	05-05-2004 13:35									#119
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I don't know what's happening, but only half my previous post appears, and I can't edit it back.

	05-05-2004 21:39									#120
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Were you using < > ?