25-10-2003 03:14									#1
	Minorities Getting Better Education Than Other Kids Suffering from ads?

quote: Schools are to be given more help to boost the achievement of pupils from ethnic minorities. Thirty secondary schools picked for the scheme will choose a senior manager to work on improving achievement among black pupils, with help from an expert consultant.

Why focus on skin colour? This is yet another factor leading to disillusionment with the political elite. Sure, if you need to help those who are struggling then fine.

But helping all blacks - why? Is it because their skin colour makes them less intelligent? Hardly. Is it because there are no other ways to recognise struggling children? No.

Policies like this are what drives people to vote for parties like the BNP. When it seems one ethnic group is getting an extra hand, even if it is a minority, there will be some who rebel.

Targetting the strugglers is fine, but this is another measure designed to sow the seeds of racial disharmony.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3211779.stm

	25-10-2003 03:20									#2
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I'm actually agreeing with Park Avenue !

	25-10-2003 03:22									#3
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Spiffor trust me, you don't

	25-10-2003 03:23									#4
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quote: I'm actually agreeing with Park Avenue !

	25-10-2003 03:25									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Spiffor trust me, you don't

In the first point, he has this point that school help should be granted based on social profiling rather than on racial profiling. And because I have a strong hatred for racial profiling, I am in agreement with that.

	25-10-2003 03:32									#6
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Read again Spiffor. Where do you think those thirty schools are? Not in uptown London...

I'll bet they are what we call in The Netherlands "black schools", schools where an overwhelming majority of the pupils are from a minority background and situated in the poorest parts of our cities.

Anyhow, a fellow lefty like you should be disagreeing with any of Spink's "minority", "gay" or "BNP" threads by proxy...

	25-10-2003 03:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Anyhow, a fellow lefty like you should be disagreeing with any of Spink's "minority", "gay" or "BNP" threads by proxy...

Well, I still don't despair that Spink will say something intelligent, sometime

	25-10-2003 03:40									#8
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quote: I'll bet they are what we call in The Netherlands "black schools", schools where an overwhelming majority of the pupils are from a minority background and situated in the poorest parts of our cities.

The policy is aimed at improving struggling schools/pupils. It's fairly easy to see which schools aren't doing so well and focus on them.

Why use proxies for the above, such as affluence of the area or minority representation, which aren't as accurate?

	25-10-2003 03:44									#9
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quote: Schools are to be given more help to boost the achievement of pupils from ethnic minorities. Thirty secondary schools picked for the scheme will choose a senior manager to work on improving achievement among black pupils, with help from an expert consultant.

i'm going to say something that's not pc.

i'm sick and tired of hearing "ethnic" used as a synonym for anything that's a racial minority. african-americans in america, who aren't really african-americans but black americans, aren't really 'ethnic', so they can damn well stop using that term to describe themselves.

real african americans can be "ethnic". asian americans and hispanics can be "ethnic". but if you are anything past a third generation immigrant, then you're not "ethnic".

	25-10-2003 03:55									#10
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Doesn't which schools aren't doing so well equal affluence of the area or minority representation?

	25-10-2003 03:59									#11
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quote: Doesn't which schools aren't doing so well equal affluence of the area or minority representation?

Absolutely not.

	25-10-2003 04:03									#12
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ah well, maybe not in the BNP's point of view. Got to protect our precious white kids from those darkies, right?

I'm out of this thread...

	25-10-2003 05:03									#13
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A colourblind proposal would redirect the attention to the kids who really need help rather than playing PC politics.

	25-10-2003 05:10									#14
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Which is why the American left is so against targeting students based upon social need instead of skin color.

	25-10-2003 05:12									#15
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This is absolute garbage.

Good for you, Hueij - Prechosen champion of the "underdog" , as always

	25-10-2003 05:12									#16
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Let parents pay for their own kids' education - don't take my money to do it.

	25-10-2003 05:18									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And David Floyd enters the ring

I was about to make a serious post supporting Spiffor's and Park Avenue's view that you shouldn't discriminate based on race, you should discriminate based on social or economic factors (a view I have held for a long time), until I came to DF's post at the end. Bye-bye serious discussion.

	25-10-2003 05:22									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, I know, don't feed the trolls. It's just so frigging tempting sometimes

	25-10-2003 06:52									#20
	Suffering from ads?

PA will not rest until he finds concrete evidence that white, straight men are a persecuted group.

	25-10-2003 06:53									#21
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And hey -- what do you know?

My own suffering of persecution under the great, omnipresent MTG has ended!!

	25-10-2003 06:59									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun PA will not rest until he finds concrete evidence that white, straight men are a persecuted group.

Although this thread probably aims at feeding PA's pet issue, it doesn't make any less wrong to grant helps on a racial basis rather than on a socio-economic basis. If we help the blacks at schools specifically, it either means that blacks are officially dumb, or that they suffer from special problems that have nothing to do with their socioeconomic status.

Help the kids of poor neighborhoods, help the kids of divorced parents, help the kids whose parents speak bad English at your heart's content. Don't help the kid based on their skin color. This is simply racism, no matter how well intentioned it is.

	25-10-2003 07:00									#23
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yadda, yadda, yadda . . . . .

	25-10-2003 07:00									#24
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Nah, why bother.

	25-10-2003 07:28									#25
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because everyone thinks you're an obscurity hack who's lost his mind on aimless defences of the "left".

OH WAIT, RACE DOESN'T EXIST - RIGHT???

	25-10-2003 11:55									#26
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because inner city schools are crap.

I don't believe in extra attention and money spent.

But I do believe the black schools should get at much money as the white schools.

The biggest reason they don't is because property taxes are lower in those neighborhoods, and thusly, less taxes are collected.

That needs to change.

	25-10-2003 12:59									#27
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quote: ah well, maybe not in the BNP's point of view. Got to protect our precious white kids from those darkies, right?

Have you thought about the implications of what you originally said?

That you could determine the level of intelligence in a school based on its intake of racial minorities?

I don't see a valid argument against my point here, yet.

	25-10-2003 15:54									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Doesn't which schools aren't doing so well equal affluence of the area or minority representation?

Pretty much.

Of course, Stew took things out of context. The two paragraphs immediately preceeding the bits he quoted are.

quote: It is also launching a scheme to boost the performance of black Caribbean children at secondary school. They are much less likely to get good GCSEs and more likely to be expelled than other children.

	25-10-2003 17:56									#29
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quote: Why focus on skin colour? This is yet another factor leading to disillusionment with the political elite. Sure, if you need to help those who are struggling then fine.

I think their skin color is not the main focus here. It sounds like they've noticed a trend of underachievement among ethnic minorities (plural) and are trying to bring these groups up to par.

	25-10-2003 18:55									#30
	Suffering from ads?

Jac - that trend can be caused by one of two things. Either those minorities happen to have on average a lower socioeconomic status, in which case the obvious solution is to help ALL people below a certain socioeconomic status (the position I support), or they are inherently inferior because they are minorities. Anyone who does not support the first solution is claiming instead that they believe the second case is true. They are racist.