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HershOstropoler
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I held on to the table.
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Theben
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Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by NeOmega
It is almost as if OBL is hunting America as his next big game. |
Gee, ya think?
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They[islamic fundamentalists]- and notably Osama bin Laden- interpreted the collapse of the Soviet Union in a different way. In thier perception it was they, not America, that had won the Cold War. In their eyes, the Soviet Union was not the benign helper in the common struggle against the Jews and the Western imperialists but rather the fountainhead of atheism and unbelief, the oppressor of many millions of Muslim subjects, and the invader of Afganistan. As they saw it...it was their struggle in Afganistan that had defeated the mighty Red Army and driven the Soviets to defeat and collapse. Having disposed of the more ferocious and more dangerous of the two infidel superpowers, their next task was to deal with the other, the United States, and in this war the compromisers were tools and agents of the infidel enemy. For a variety of reasons, the Islamic fundamentalists believed that fighting America would be a simpler and easier task.[emp added]. In their view, the United States had become morally corrupt, socially degenerate, and in consequence, politically and militarily enfeebled. |
--Bernard Lewis, The Crisis of Islam, pp. 62-63.
So we're also stuck in the situation, now having thrown down the gauntlet, of emboldening the fundys if we lose or withdraw early, which would encourage more terrorism as well. So we have to win, otherwise we're effed.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben
...which goes on to list various methods of suicide and what happens but I'll skip that. Basically Muhammad hisself said that suicide is a no-no, which is why I don't get how the Fundys think that suicide will get them to paradise.
OTOH, it's heart warming to think that the 9/11 bombers are being blown to bits for eternity. |
Because they differentiate these attacks as not being suicide per se, but being attacks against infidels in which the bomber happens to die - i.e., the goal in triggering the bomb is the attack against the infidel, and the lost of life is simply an inevitable consequence, since the attacker has to personally smuggle or forcefully deliver the weapon to the target.
This is something entirely different than just randomly shooting or drowning yourself or whatever, in that the primary, even exclusive goal of these is to take your own life, whereas in "suicide bombings" death is just an unavoidable consequence of the nature of the attack on the infidels, thus it is a death that qualifies one as a martyr.
Fundy leaders have issue fatwa on this matter.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Small point, if we cannot find the arms caches that are supply the Ba'athist resistance, how can we be sure that we can ever find where any WMD are hidden?
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If there are any live WMD, they're TOAB without access to delivery systems, so if you have one, you have the other nearby. In other words, artillery rounds aren't likely to be found where the guns are. There are also strict handling and storage procedures, to keep the rounds both safe and viable. I doubt the Iraqis with access to that hardware were inclined to half-ass it, or were improperly trained.
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IMO, we could increase troop levels to two million and still not end the Ba'athist resistance.
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We don't have two million troops, and even if we did, we could shut down the *******s for far less.
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The only way we can end it is for the Iraqi's themselves to join the fight against the Ba'athist. We have to pull out and be invisible.
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(a) The Baathists have run the dump for 30 yeas - they have made sure that thos who are best armed, and best supported, are those who are loyal and committed to the party, by the blood on their hands, if not the blood in their veins.
(b) Until that disparity in weapons, support and training is cured, the US is the only stronger force on the ground. We're stuck there - if anyone doesn't have the huevos for it, too damn bad. Hoo-ah!
(c) Any move we make to become "invisible" not only encourages the *******s, it demoralizes our supporters and makes them think back to 1991, when we didn't support a rebellion we never authorized or bought into, and they paid the price. The last thing they're going to do now is pick up our slack if we show signs of being ready to cut and run because we don't have the balls to stick it out and win.
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I think Bush is falling into Johnson's trap of turning a local war into a US war. True, in this case, we started the war, but we need to end in the same way we ended the Vietnam war. "Vietnamization II."
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This was a US war from the beginning, and our fearless leaders were so sold on that shock and awe horseshit they didn't imagine any other alternatives. The way we "ended" the Vietnam war was to accomplish nothing but to set ourselves up for a strategic defeat. But this time, there is a larger enemy that wants a lot more than what Bac Ho, Mao and Brezhnev hoped to gain.
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Israel faces the same problem. Despite enormous firepower advantages, they will never defeat the Palestinian resistance. What Israel needs to do is somehow get the Palestinians themselves to fight the terrorists on behalf of a new Palestinian state. |
 Harvest time up there in the Santa Cruz mountains, Ned? 
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Apolyton Time is 00:31. |
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03-11-2003 01:16
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