10-11-2003 00:00									#1
	Scientific Leader Remove this text

I just got Albert Einstein, the scientific leader!

yay. I like this addition to the game, to be able to enter an age of science, or hurry a wonder like other leaders.

I never played PTW before conquests, so forgive me if scientific leaders were in PTW and this is old news to you guys.

yay


none the less, a nice addition.

	10-11-2003 00:07									#2
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SGLs are new.

	10-11-2003 00:07									#3
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quote: so forgive me if scientific leaders were in PTW

They weren't. Congratulations!

You can use it to rush a wonder or to boost your science output.

	10-11-2003 00:10									#4
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Where do they spawn btw? I asssume it is in the capital?

	10-11-2003 00:23									#5
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Yes, the capital. With a long single line above the capital describing the event (partially blocked by the Science advance notice window upper right).

	10-11-2003 00:32									#6
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are SGL's only available in the epic game? because i havent seen one in the scenarios yet....?

	10-11-2003 00:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by alva Where do they spawn btw? I asssume it is in the capital?

That's the only place I've seen them so far

	10-11-2003 05:22									#8
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So these work to speed up science? Doesn't that mean the early tech lead is too easy to maintain?

	10-11-2003 05:26									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike So these work to speed up science? Doesn't that mean the early tech lead is too easy to maintain?

Since its only for 20 turns, you probably can't get that much ahead in techs on a higher level. What it would probably mean for me is that I could spend a lot less on science and put the cash towards infra. I haven't used them for science yet, have always gotten them when there was a nice wonder ready to be built.

	10-11-2003 05:48									#10
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Is it possible to set whether they rush Great or Just Small Wonders?

	10-11-2003 11:06									#11
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quote: Originally posted by grappleman are SGL's only available in the epic game? because i havent seen one in the scenarios yet....?

Just got one in Mesopotamia.

	10-11-2003 11:48									#12
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I can no longer use Great Leaders to rush a Great Wonder production in the scenarios. Is this a change or a bug? Does anyone know?
-Dagta

	10-11-2003 11:55									#13
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Actually Dagta, I've noticed this too. I have a Great Leader but he can not rush build wonders - only create an Army..... so this is leading me to believe that only Scientific Great Leaders can rush-build Wonders....

Am I wrong here or is there some one else with the needed information to set me straight?

	10-11-2003 11:55									#14
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You can no longer use a great leader to rush a wonder period. You can use a Science leader to rush wonders.
The military GL's can rush small wonders and city improvements and make armies.

	10-11-2003 12:00									#15
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And brings up another question....

Since I all ready have a (military) Great Leader just chillin' in my capitol (since it's too early in the game to build an Army with limited ratios - ie, an Army of Archers - PLEASE! ) .... will I ever get the chance of gaining a Scientific Great Leader while I maintain a Military Great Leader in reserve?

	10-11-2003 12:29									#16
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You could make it into an army and leave it safe in your capitol until you have more desirable units

	10-11-2003 12:58									#17
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Ah, good point Chrisius....I didn't think about just building an army and leaving it empty.... Food for thought indeed. Thanks for the suggestion!

	10-11-2003 13:01									#18
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From the Nov 4th Apolyton Chat:

[16:30] <+Gobi> Yes, let's talk about leaders a bit.
[16:31] <+Gobi> There were two main goals with respect to leaders. 1) Make sure that peaceful
builders could get leaders too, and
[16:31] <+Gobi> 2) Make sure that there were still choices about how to use them once you
received them
[16:31] <+Gobi> Before warmongers got the most leaders and they always used them to rush
wonders
[16:32] <+Gobi> So now, you can still get leaders through military action
[16:32] <+Gobi> But we made two changes so you didn't always rush wonders with them
[16:33] <+Gobi> We made armies better, and we changed it so military leaders only rush small
wonders
[16:33] <+Gobi> You can now get Scientific Leaders by being the first to research a tech.

[16:33] can SGL rush GWs?
[16:33] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes they can
[16:33] <+Gobi> They can rush Great Wonders OR give you a bonus on scientific research for
20 turns
[16:34] Gobi - does that mean that there is a % chance of getting a SL when
you are the first to an advance for EVERY advance?
[16:34] <+Gobi> MrWIA: Yes it does. But the chance is small (about 5%)
[16:34] <+Gobi> Unless you are a scientific civ
[16:35] I thought 5% was for the Scientific civ, and 3% for everyone else (unless
they changed that at the last minute)
[16:35] <+Gobi> Trust Chieftess on those percentages ... I'm doing this from memory

	10-11-2003 13:05									#19
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But on a side-note, the question stilll remains -

Can you gain a Scientific Great Leader when you already have a Military Great Leader in reserve?

I know this might sound rather petty, but the answer will decide how I - and most likely others, will play future Conquests games (ESPECIALLY PBEM and Multiplay Lan/internet Games).

	10-11-2003 13:08									#20
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While I haven't done it myself, I have seen several credible reports of having both an SGL and MGL at the same time as well as having 2 SGL's at one time.

Last edited by kring on 10-11-2003 at 13:18

	10-11-2003 13:16									#21
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Check out post #21 here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...55&pagenumber=1



I haven't heard that you can get more than one MGL so I would think that limit is still in for MGL's.

	10-11-2003 13:30									#22
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Here's one showing up.

	10-11-2003 14:39									#23
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So I guess the answer is YES - Thanks to Kring and NYE (my, my haven't we been busy!...planning for the next PBEM Conquests...or is it just purely for Aployton University studies?!)

	10-11-2003 17:00									#24
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Silly SGL - was playing a scenario and must've missed a popup or something 'cause this guy in a black suit suddenly came available to move. I'm sitting there wondering if this was part of the scenario, or what...

Then a couple games later (I get bored easily) I see a popup and there's the guy in the black suit again. Very cool and he can't get killed like my military ones always did...

Now... is it worth using him for research, especially since the only way I can get wonders is to rush them? I can't see how research would be worth it, but maybe I missed something?

	10-11-2003 18:19									#25
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When I used the SGL for a research boost, it only shortened the time needed for the next tech by 1 turn, but I got him later in the game so the effect may not be as much, since techs cost more for the most part.

but, I also only had about 10 -12 cities, and i think the pedia says that the SGL increases science output of each city by 25%, so that would of course mean that the more large cities you have, the bigger the boost.

I'm imagining an empire of many many many cities that gets an SGL, that could have a more substantial effect.

Since, I rarely play games with tons of cities, the SGL research effect may not be that great for me, but it still helps. If only to allow me to pour resources into other areas.

	10-11-2003 18:30									#26
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Hmm, if the effects aren't large we will probably see the same amount of boosted research as we do armies in vanilla.

	10-11-2003 18:55									#27
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I got Isaac Newton during the first age. I used him for increased science. It sped up research by a turn or two. It was arounf the time of writing, literature, philosophy.

	10-11-2003 20:15									#28
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 You can no longer use a great leader to rush a wonder period. You can use a Science leader to rush wonders. The military GL's can rush small wonders and city improvements and make armies.

well, that would explain things. I was wondering why I couldn't use mine to build the holy roman empire.

	10-11-2003 21:48									#29
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Bug Report - see my post at
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...360#post2475360

Also - Look at the image in Kring's post above - He has two SGL's with the same name at the same time.

Check in the editor - there are multiple SGL names available.

Question: Has Anyone seen an more than a single SGL name in an epic game (or scenario)?

Thanks

Kevin P.

	10-11-2003 22:09									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius They weren't. Congratulations! You can use it to rush a wonder or to boost your science output.

Hrm one thing I've always wondered but would forget to ask is whether or not the AI uses GLs to RB Wonders. Does anyone have verifiable evidence that they do?