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Bereta_Eder
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Zagreb changes
Germany's Der Tagesspiegel says Croatian voters did themselves no favours by backing the right-wing Croatian Democratic Union, HDZ, in general elections on Sunday.
With the election victory of the HDZ, the shadow of the past is growing longer again
Sueddeutsche Zeitung
"The parliamentary elections represent a strong shift back in the direction of nationalism - a fatal step backwards," the paper warns.
It argues that EU membership has become a more distant prospect, with Croatia now finding itself no closer than "the front garden of the EU house, perhaps even outside the fence".
Sueddeutsche Zeitung expresses similar fears.
"With the election victory of the HDZ, which began to shape the country during the war and governed it under its father figure Franjo Tudjman in an authoritarian manner for almost a decade, the shadow of the past is growing longer again."
The paper acknowledges that current party leader Ivo Sanader represents a new way of thinking but adds that the HDZ still has a strong nationalist wing.
The victory of the right-wing nationalist Croatian Democratic Union... doesn't scare anybody in Europe any more
Der Standard
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung believes the governing coalition lost the election because it failed to fulfil its promises.
"Voters are merciless, they punish the half-hearted and the indecisive," it says.
But it keeps an open mind about Mr Sanader's prospects.
"When it comes to achieving the political criteria for EU membership, we shall soon see whether the HDZ is behind him, as he claims, or whether those critics are right who do not believe in the transformation of the HDZ into a clean, modern conservative party, or who doubt his ability to achieve it."
Austria's Der Standard is confident that the HDZ has changed.
"The victory of the right-wing nationalist Croatian Democratic Union... doesn't scare anybody in Europe any more," the paper says.
"Twelve years after the end of the war, democratic normality seems to be taking hold in Croatia," it adds.
Die Presse agrees, arguing that there is every reason to believe that nationalism of a kind incompatible with EU membership won't be revived.
This is sad.
I guess Serbia is going to take the lead seeing as it has embraced true democratic reforms.
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Bereta_Eder
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Selective reading?
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Tripledoc
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I think Germany took a gamble when they focused their investments too much on the traditional Chech-Hungarian-Serbian axis. (In Media and Watersupply amongst others) They took Croatia for granted and based their laissez faire policy on the percieved historical ties and the fact that Croatia was relatively rich. Forgetting pehaps that Croatian (edit:!) nationalism is opportunistic, and not neccesarily pro-german, and that percieved wealth among the Croatians is not as important as the percieved rate at which that wealth grows.
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Bereta_Eder
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Well Croatia never had to do any psyche cleansing the say Germany or dare say Serbia did.
Don't forget the rot goes deep and has history.
1941 A 'Greater Croatia' is formed, also comprising most of Bosnia and western Serbia. A fascist puppet government is installed under Ante Pavelic. The regime acts brutally against Serbs and Jews as it seeks to create a Catholic, all-Croat republic. Hundreds of thousands lose their lives.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/c...les/1097156.stm
One the the other far right wing parties the gov. wants to allign with is one who praised Croatia's past of nazi collaboration and genocide.
Tudjman himself was a wanted criminal but died before being brought to the hage.
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Tripledoc
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That would also expain why the Austrian newspaper are so complacent. They have never had to go through the punishment Germany had to go through. Even though they were with them all the way to Stalingrad, and had not a insignificant hand in the Holocaust.
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VetLegion
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Edited because of inappropriate rudeness.
Last edited by VetLegion on 26-11-2003 at 01:10
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Bereta_Eder
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**** you is the comment?
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Tripledoc
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This is going to be fun.
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VetLegion
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OK, don't sink. My Civ 2 game scheduled for tonight seems to be canceled anyway.
First things first. Croatia never in its history occupied a single square meter of Serbia. Historical fact, forget your propaganda.
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VetLegion
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Secondly, you can't stomache the fact that although right wingers have won (but still haven't formed the government), nobody in Europe is getting excited. Going right is the trend in Europe may I remind you.
I understand your sentiments though, as the only banana country in Europe and also the only one in Europe ever to have a Hunta, except Portugal, but that was different, you think right = fascism.
It does not. Not even in Greece where left and right are both chauvinist.
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VetLegion
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Now let me compare minority politics of Croatia to some other random European country with unresolved minority issues, say, Greece 
Through their state policies in the past Greeks have shown only one constant - extreme nationalism.
Should I start with genocides of the Turks, invasion of Turk soil in Asia Minor, hatred for the Jews of Solun or with unfair treatment of Macedonian minority?
I do not want to go through history again though, others know more about this I am sure. And about the reasoning behind it, well... paiktis said it best: "In the Balkans, homogenity is strength."
Mind you, he is somewhat a lefty by Greek standards 
So, forget the past and lets examine the situation in Greece right now.
What do official censii tell us about minorities?
That there are none!
But what about the one million Albanians, the still struggling Macedonians, the voting priviledges, the minority scools, the ...
There are none!
Case closed 
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Tripledoc
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Vetlegion you seem to think that the protection of minority rights is a huge injustice to the Croatian people, since it violates the constitution.
I can see how such a voting law would infuriate certain people, but frankly, are there not other problems in the Croatian body politic that would require more attention. For instance is croatian culture really so weak that it cannot accomodate a few 'foreign' elements?
In that case mayhaps one should tone down the nationalist hysteria and allow for a greater deal of dissent and accomodation.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
quote:
That being said, It would be nice for the Croatian voter to be a little more sypathetic to its minorities. |
PLATO, I am sorry, but you are completely in the wrong here. Thank you for giving me the chance to explain the situation in Croatia and compare to some other countries 
First, there is no such thing as a minority in citizen countries of Europe. You are either a citizen and you can vote, or you are not.
France and Germany for example, have large muslim and other minorities but those do not have any special priviledges in politics. There is only one parliament and all who can vote vote for it.
But there are to my knowledge, only two countries in Europe, that guarantee minorities representatives in the parliament 
Slovenia and Croatia.
The situation is like this, voters of a minority group can choose to vote on a special "minority list" where only other minortiy candidates can compete. Those that win have the guaranteed right to sit in the parliament (Sabor) although they have been chosen by say 10 000 people while the standard for every other normal representative is 30 000 votes or so.
This situation violates the constitutions of these countries and is actually positive discrimination at its worst.
But it is there. |
Post WW1 the League of Nations insisted on special rights for minorities in the eastern european successor states, partly out of the realistic acknowledgement of the need to offset majority discrimination, and partyly to compensate minorities cut off by more or less arbitrary borders. Croatia and Slovenia seem not unreasonable applications of this idea.
OTOH opposition to such an arrangement, doesnt seem to automatically be "nationalist hysteria" iS that really the entire issue?
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
OTOH opposition to such an arrangement, doesnt seem to automatically be "nationalist hysteria" iS that really the entire issue? |
There is obvioulsy a great deal of money involved too. Howver as the saying goes when the through is empty the pigs start squealing.
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VetLegion
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lotm, there is no "nationalist hysteria" in Croatia.
The right wing party that came to power, HDZ, immediately confirmed their dedication to cooperation with EU, with the court in Hague and so on.
These elections were not won because of a rise of nationalism, they were lost by the ruling party (who won the last elections in a landslide) because promised reforms were pretty weak.
We had a 5.2 percent growth this year, but that was not enough for the dissappointed voters.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Have they repudiated Tjudmans record of apology for antisemitism? |
The EU policy on anti-semitism is akin to the famous three monkeys. Don't see, Don't hear, Don't tell. That is the perception from the outside, and that won't change no matter how submissive the EU is. Hence the policy of combating anti-semitism is probably relegated to the backseat since it is a no win situation.
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25-11-2003 23:00
I recall when Austria elected a right win leader it was the “progressive” left wing of Europe who demanded censorship and legal sanctions. That the Austrian right had broken no laws and had simply advocated different policies then Brussels’s left wing ideologues didn’t matter. 
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