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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > New News -- Cincannitti Police Officers Killed an Attacker
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MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:32
  Old Post 01-12-2003 22:31 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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New News -- Cincannitti Police Officers Killed an Attacker Enter the AD-FREE zone

A 400 pound black man was apprehended by several police officers -- but then he attacked one of the police officers.


The officers had difficulty in subduing him, so they used physical force to compel him to stop and to submit to an arrest, using nightsticks, and many blows. They also used chemical spray.




The guy attacked one of the officers -- he had to be subdued. The question is this -- did the police officers have to use enough force to kill him, in order to subdue him? (the attacker was a 400 pound hulk)

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 01-12-2003 22:55 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Evidently; and where did this happen?

CorpusScorpius is offline CorpusScorpius
Chieftain
Houston,Tx
Nov 2000
time: 23:32
  Old Post 01-12-2003 22:59
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There is a very fine line between proper/excessive use of force. We will never know the exact circumstances of this incident. I am sure there will be many upset Brothers & Sisters who will blame the Police. If I am not mistaken wasnt there riots in Cincinnati a year or so ago?
How hard is it to comply w/ the police? I am sure this 400 pound Brother was the nicest guy in the world who was caught up in these peculiar circumstances.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104467,00.html

Last edited by CorpusScorpius on 01-12-2003 at 23:08

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:32
  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:03
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Re: New News -- Cincannitti Police Officers Killed an Attacker Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
They also used chemical spray.


We better bomb Cincinnati.

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
Samara's best friend
Jan 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:06
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Pigs.

They should have jumped on his back and then WHAM! The ol'fork in the eye.

That always works.

Spec.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:32
Cool  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:08 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Osweld


We better bomb Cincinnati.



It's not like you haven't had worse ideas.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:32
  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:08
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if you are stupid enough to try and fight the police, you deserve what you get...

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
if you are stupid enough to try and fight the police, you deserve what you get...



Please dude, dont generalize...


Spec.

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Spec



Please dude, dont generalize...


Spec.

why not? fighting the police is always wrong... if you are innocent, then work it out in court... this isn't a concept that boils down to specific incidents... you fight the police, the end result is your own damn fault.

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava

... if you are innocent, then work it out in court


DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 01-12-2003 23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Spec
Please dude, dont generalize...
Why not? It's usually not a good idea to needlessly antagonize a group of people with guns that out number you greatly. You never come out the winner in that fight.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 00:03
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quote:
Why not? It's usually not a good idea to needlessly antagonize a group of people with guns that out number you greatly. You never come out the winner in that fight.


Yep.. Sava and DD are right (and when they both agree, you know there is a good point there ). You don't fight a bunch of people have guns, especially when they have the state on their side .

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 00:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
if you are stupid enough to try and fight the police, you deserve what you get...


BS! The police aren't always law abiding. Chico Salazar would have been beaten to death had he taken your advice. Nine times outta ten you're best off complying with the police, but sometimes you catch the drunk police officer on a bad day and he's decided to take it out on you.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava

if you are innocent, then work it out in court...


Sez the guy who also argues that the only people who get a fair shake in court are the "rich bastards".

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 00:33
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From the link above:

quote:
An employee at a fast-food restaurant called 911 at about 5:50 a.m. to report that a man had passed out in the grass outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance" at the restaurant, according to a tape of police radio transmissions.

Police officers Baron Osterman and James Pike, the first two to arrive, were shown on videotape striking Jones after he was warned to stay back. Jones then lunged at an officer and knocked him down. The officers kept yelling, "put your hands behind your back" as they struggled to handcuff him.

They called for an ambulance when Jones appeared to be in distress. He died within minutes of arriving at University Hospital, Janke said. The reason for Jones' behavior is not known, Janke said.


I have yet to see the tape (likely won't see it, either) but from the description it sounds as if the man wasn't doing too well before the cops got there.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 00:39
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The guy lunged at a police officer. I think the police have a right to self defense in that case.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 00:45 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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He was probably stupid drunk.

Anun Ik Oba is offline Anun Ik Oba
Emperor
Grace of God
Sep 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:09
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"I fought the law and the, law won."

Did they ever find out what the guy died of exactly?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
Sez the guy who also argues that the only people who get a fair shake in court are the "rich bastards".
because they can afford good lawyers... are you saying I'm wrong? Why did OJ get off?

chegitz: yes, there is police brutality... but antagonizing or trying to fight corrupt police only gets you killed.

The smartest thing to do is listen to the police, cooperate, and keep quiet. If a drunken cop is going to beat the crap out of you, there's not much you can do anyways. The system isn't perfect, but the best way to beat it is to work within it.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:40
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quote:
because they can afford good lawyers... are you saying I'm wrong?


Yeah, you are wrong. Plenty of poor people get a 'fair shake'. In fact, you believe that if you think people should just go to court.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:43
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quote:
In fact, you believe that if you think people should just go to court.


Yeah, one position is inconsistent with the other, isn't it? But, what the hell: we are legion, we contain multitudes.

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
because they can afford good lawyers... are you saying I'm wrong?


Yeah, you are wrong. Plenty of poor people get a 'fair shake'. In fact, you believe that if you think people should just go to court.
yes they should just go to court... why? because their problem cannot be solved by fighting the law. Yes, the criminal justice system in this country is not perfect. Better lawyers get better results... and they cost more... and people with more money can afford better lawyers.

DUH

I didn't say "all poor people don't get a fair shake", but if anyone thinks rich people don't have a better chance of getting a not-guilty verdict... they are stupid...

Imran, you should know better. Look at Illinois' death penalty situation. The people who are getting released from death row almost always end up there in the first place because they had inadequate representation.

I don't see how these two concepts are contradictory. They have little to do with each other.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
If a drunken cop is going to beat the crap out of you, there's not much you can do anyways. The system isn't perfect, but the best way to beat it is to work within it.


A ways into his beating, Salazar realized the cop wasn't going to stop, so he struck back. When he was next seen by his freinds, later that day, they did not recognize him, his face was just a purple, pulpy mass. After hitting the cop, the cop decided he was going to execute him, pulled his revolver, and they struggled for the gun. Cop died, Salazar fled to Mexico, where he was kidnapped by bounter hunters and brought back to Illinois. He spent several years on death row before being released. Even if they'd executed him, he'd at least have gotten a few more years of life than simply letting the cop beat him to death.

You have to ask yourself, is this cop going to seriously **** me up or kill me? If the answer is yes, then you fight for your life rather than let your relatives take the legal route. If you die, it doesn't do you a damn bit of good even if they win ten million from the city in a wrongful death suit. Would you trade brain damage or the use of your legs for millions of dollars?

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 02-12-2003 at 01:54

MrFun is offline MrFun
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quote:
Originally posted by CorpusScorpius
There is a very fine line between proper/excessive use of force. We will never know the exact circumstances of this incident. I am sure there will be many upset Brothers & Sisters who will blame the Police. If I am not mistaken wasnt there riots in Cincinnati a year or so ago?
How hard is it to comply w/ the police? I am sure this 400 pound Brother was the nicest guy in the world who was caught up in these peculiar circumstances.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104467,00.html


There is a full video recording of this incident.

I have to admit, this morning when I saw this on CNN, and then saw that the apprehended person was black, my hasty, emotional reaction was that the white cops were racist and they killed him for being a n*gger.

THEN I saw the video segment of the black guy attacking the officer -- he was definitely violently resisting arrest.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:57
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well che, that's a ****ed up and unique situation... I don't think the vast majority of cops are corrupt like that. But the best thing to do is to cooperate with the police. If there is brutality, then file charges and go through the proper channels. The justice system isn't perfect, but it is the legitimate system in this government we live in.

Sure, it's possible somebody acting in self-defense could kill a cop and get screwed by the judicial system. But it's a lot better than to evade the law and be a fugitive. Unless of course you are some rich drug dealer and you can afford to go to a non-extradition country or something.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 01:58
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quote:
THEN I saw the video segment of the black guy attacking the officer -- he was definitely violently resisting arrest.
MrFun...

yeah it sucks he died, but it's just as I suspected... HIS OWN DAMN FAULT!

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 03:26 Visit Dis's homepage!
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black men are screwed by the justice system.

Their best bet is fighting the police

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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Feb 2002
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The first part of the video, you just see the cops wailing on the guy, then he stands up and swings at an officer.

It's a case of "I don't know" for me.

ACK!

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 02-12-2003 04:55 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Um -- Tuber, the full recording shows the 400 pound hulk trying to beat the sh*t out of one of the officers BEFORE the officers resorted to physical force.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 02-12-2003 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun


I have to admit, this morning when I saw this on CNN, and then saw that the apprehended person was black, my hasty, emotional reaction was that the white cops were racist and they killed him for being a n*gger.

THEN I saw the video segment of the black guy attacking the officer -- he was definitely violently resisting arrest.


At least you are honest Mr Fun.


A lot of people, even when faced with the truth, would rather not see the honest answer.


I am a former Federal Police Officer, both USAMP (U S Army Military Police) as well as BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs). The Federal Govt. had to put Caucasian Officers on the Indian Reservation, because of the three families, the previous force wouldnt arrest a member of its family and would side with them against a complainant from another family. While I had many arrests, the majority, including 99% of my Felony arrests were of Native American decent. I had to not only answer to the Chief of Police, but also the Tribal Council (made up of 10 American Native Indians from the reservation),U S Federal Court Prosectors, local States District Attorney and F B I. So I "appear" rascist because of the limited number of caucasian arrests, (I also worked Public Safety so my Traffic Record was more evenly spread.)

This was aboard an Indian Reservation, Federally Funded, Federally run.

Now, lets take a white cop put into a predominantly Hispanic or African American precinct. Or maybe the 'Hood or barrio has a high crime rate. Now, The white cops come under much more scrutiny than others because of the "appearance" that they must have done something wrong, for without any video to prove innocent they HAVE to be guilty!

I love the onboard video camera but that doesnt cover all calls.

I know, many officers, white included are predjudice or rascist but not ALL are. I wasnt. I was a Federal Officer, Sworn to uphold the Law.

Some folks do the job to the best of their abilities. The Indians on the reservation would call to have an officer to be a referee, not unlike what goes on now. BUT when the officer has to protect himself, and their happens to be many their to try to stop him, then he may well be put into a bad situation whereas the crowds single him out as being predjudice.

My son is a deputy sherriff and a member of our local SWAT Team. I have allways given him this advice:

Do your job. But remember this:

It is better to be judged by a group of 12 then to be carried by a group of 6!


Peace

Grandpa Troll

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