02-12-2003 15:57									#61
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and why is the NAACP already denouncing this before they even have the facts

I'm sorry, but this organization is completely out of touch with reality. It's just another leftist organization now.

	02-12-2003 16:26									#62
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Ned AKA Moron -- reread my posts.

Mr. Fun, I would like an apology. I said I had only read your first post, which did ask the question as to why the police used deadly force. I had only a brief time to add my two cents without reading the rest of the thread. I told you that in my post. Then you call me a moron?

	02-12-2003 16:28									#63
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Wait -- maybe Ned's hatred of liberals hinders his reading comprehension so I should explain what he missed when he blurred over my posts. My initial, irrational reaction before I saw the entire video was an unfair presumtption -- as I have ALREADY noted previously.

Again another attack!

Who the **** are you?

	02-12-2003 18:09									#64
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Why should I download the tape and watch a potentially brutal beating? For one thing, I'm not even in that country, so it's unlikely to directly affect me. I guess I could give an amateur analysis of it and claim I know what I'm talking about, but who's really going to care. I guess I could look at it to find the 'truth.' But honestly, I'll just being looking for evidence to support my own narrow view of the world. Perhaps I could use that evidence to try to convince someone on the internet that that my biased and limited opinions are correct versus their biased and limited opinions. Who knows? Today could be the day?

	02-12-2003 19:34									#65
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DaShi.

	02-12-2003 20:10									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Mr. Fun, I would like an apology. I said I had only read your first post, which did ask the question as to why the police used deadly force. I had only a brief time to add my two cents without reading the rest of the thread. I told you that in my post. Then you call me a moron?

Fine -- I suppose I could apologize.

	02-12-2003 20:21									#67
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Such... sincerity!

	02-12-2003 20:32									#68
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I could be wrong, but It seems as though MF's posts of late have been taking a fairly aggressive 'tone'.

Is this a new side of MF, or have I just been selectively reading?

Back on topic:

What's amazing to me about this incident is the complete lack of integrity shown by the news orgs that fail to show the start of the tape where you clearly see the cops talking to the guy, then his unprovoked attack of one of them.

Last edited by SpencerH on 02-12-2003 at 20:38

	02-12-2003 20:33									#69
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Why should I download the tape and watch a potentially brutal beating? For one thing, I'm not even in that country, so it's unlikely to directly affect me. I guess I could give an amateur analysis of it and claim I know what I'm talking about, but who's really going to care. I guess I could look at it to find the 'truth.' But honestly, I'll just being looking for evidence to support my own narrow view of the world. Perhaps I could use that evidence to try to convince someone on the internet that that my biased and limited opinions are correct versus their biased and limited opinions. Who knows? Today could be the day?

You've made the most intelligent and insightful post in this thread.

	02-12-2003 20:48									#70
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Why should I download the tape and watch a potentially brutal beating? For one thing, I'm not even in that country, so it's unlikely to directly affect me. I guess I could give an amateur analysis of it and claim I know what I'm talking about, but who's really going to care. I guess I could look at it to find the 'truth.' But honestly, I'll just being looking for evidence to support my own narrow view of the world. Perhaps I could use that evidence to try to convince someone on the internet that that my biased and limited opinions are correct versus their biased and limited opinions. Who knows? Today could be the day?

But surley giving uninformed opinions based on incomplete evidence is the point of the OT or am I missing something.

	02-12-2003 20:49									#71
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun There is a full video recording of this incident. I have to admit, this morning when I saw this on CNN, and then saw that the apprehended person was black, my hasty, emotional reaction was that the white cops were racist and they killed him for being a n*gger. THEN I saw the video segment of the black guy attacking the officer -- he was definitely violently resisting arrest.

Gee, I found out something about you today. Do you often refer to our African-American cousins using the "n" word?

	02-12-2003 20:50									#72
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It may seem that way, but I dont think it's the point.

	02-12-2003 20:53									#73
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You know, I think the use of icons has just killed subtlety on the internet.

It is patently obvious that MrFuns comments were based upon his view of the mindset of the attacking officers. Anybody who has read him and his Confederacy/state right arguments over the past year(s) on this board knows that the last thing MrFun does is call African-Americans "nigger" as a matter of habit.

Pardon me if I again, but that was too much!

	02-12-2003 21:02									#74
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT You know, I think the use of icons has just killed subtlety on the internet. It is patently obvious that MrFuns comments were based upon his view of the mindset of the attacking officers. Anybody who has read him and his Confederacy/state right arguments over the past year(s) on this board knows that the last thing MrFun does is call African-Americans "nigger" as a matter of habit. Pardon me if I again, but that was too much!

Pardon ME if you assume that I have the time or the interest to read Mr. Fun's volume of works. Someone throws something like out there it gets taken at face value until someone can come along and vouch for him.

	02-12-2003 21:05									#75
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No, his statement reads fine as it is - read my first sentence. It's pretty standard English and I'd be willing to diagram the sentence for you... if I was willing that is.

Regardless, you do not have to know MrFun or his positions on this issue to understand what he was saying. I merely put my second point in there to give you an idea as to how strong he feels about such things.

	02-12-2003 21:09									#76
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The 'face value' was that the use of 'nigger' was from the officers POV not MF's.

BTW: they're not my cousins.

	02-12-2003 21:18									#77
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I thought it was obvious were Mr Fun was comming from.

	02-12-2003 21:22									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident and why is the NAACP already denouncing this before they even have the facts

Because black folks to various degrees are still affected by racism and an incident like this is a perfect opportunity to vent their frustration. Of course a full investigation is necessary when the detention of a suspect results in the death of the suspect, but pending the outcome of the investigation, calling for the officers to resign is just a step too far. It's a way for some black folks to gain some vicarious retribution to the perpetrators of racism within their individual lives.

The media has to take some responsibility for the coverage of this story. Why is it that we never see crazy white people being subdued on the news? It doesn't sell as well as when blacks are subdued. Is it fair to assume that Cincinatti police never had to use multiple officers to subdue a huge white person? I don't think so.

Based on what I've read and seen to this point, I think the officers used the amount of force necessary to subdue this 400-lb coked-up man. Individually, how is one of those officers going to subdue such a person? All it takes is for him to overwhelm just one officer and get the officer's gun and then things get 10 times worse with perhaps multiple fatalities.

	02-12-2003 21:38									#79
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT No, his statement reads fine as it is - read my first sentence. It's pretty standard English and I'd be willing to diagram the sentence for you... if I was willing that is. Regardless, you do not have to know MrFun or his positions on this issue to understand what he was saying. I merely put my second point in there to give you an idea as to how strong he feels about such things.

Diagram it for me because you haven't made your point. The statement is ambiguous.

"my hasty emotional reaction"

was 2 things

1) the white cops were racist ;

2) they killed him for being a n*gger;

If you read it literally, it's unclear whether the author of the statement is using that "n" term as a personal judgement to refer to "him", the suspect, or whether the author means the cops view "him", the suspect, as a 'n*gger'. Why would the cops view the suspect that way? Because the author suggests they might be "racist"? Does it follow that all racists refer to blacks as "n*gger"?

Anyway, enough people have stepped in to vouch for him to erase the ambiguity so just drop it.

	02-12-2003 21:51									#80
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH BTW: they're not my cousins.

You 100% sure about that? How many generations of your family has been in Birmingham?

	02-12-2003 21:52									#81
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Why should I download the tape and watch a potentially brutal beating? For one thing, I'm not even in that country, so it's unlikely to directly affect me. I guess I could give an amateur analysis of it and claim I know what I'm talking about, but who's really going to care. I guess I could look at it to find the 'truth.' But honestly, I'll just being looking for evidence to support my own narrow view of the world. Perhaps I could use that evidence to try to convince someone on the internet that that my biased and limited opinions are correct versus their biased and limited opinions. Who knows? Today could be the day?

Such things have never stopped you before. Did you get hit in the head by a meteor?

	02-12-2003 22:24									#82
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First: I'll vouch for MrFun too since he puts himself in the "minority" class for being a ragging "non-heterosexual" and refers to Indians as "AmerIndians"... He would never use racial slurs lightly, and from reading his post I wouldn't assume that to be the ideal of the poster... Anyway, you backed off. Honestly, I don't think anyone here would use those words to debate race issues.

Secod: The guy was a) huge, 400lbs, b) attacking a cop, c) need half a dozen cops to take down, d) resisting arrest, e) was on psp and other methenophedimens (speeling?), f) continued fighting even after taken down, g) hate an enlarged hart do to his health conditions, and h) was attacking a white officer - what a racist...

Thir: I heard some lady complaining about police brutality and she was harping on about how she nevers see stories about white people being taken out by the cops... If that's the best argument they have then they have nothing, and the NAACP is right to stay out of this. I am not a Cinncinatti citizen, nor am I black, so I don't know the situation with the police officers there, but to play the race card every time a black man is arrested or killed by a cop is absurd.

	02-12-2003 22:32									#83
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 You 100% sure about that? How many generations of your family has been in Birmingham?

I was going to say 100% sure since I just live here (and possibly for only a short time more), but then I remembered that my ancestors were given a royal land grant in Virginia in the 1600's or so.

So who knows

	02-12-2003 22:41									#84
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On Greta van Susteren show last night, Jeff Vigers (sp?), former Democrat candidate for governor of Michigan and well know defense attorney, was literally apopletic about the incident. He minced no words. This was, in his highly experienced opinion because he had tried numerous such cases, excessive police force.

He ended with the observation that the man was peaceful and had not attacked anyone else until the police arrived, and then "he suddenly attacks the police?"

Let is say this. The jury is out on this issue.

	02-12-2003 22:42									#85
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(It may also be that Vigers is angling to get a high profile case.)

	02-12-2003 22:46									#86
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH What's amazing to me about this incident is the complete lack of integrity shown by the news orgs that fail to show the start of the tape where you clearly see the cops talking to the guy, then his unprovoked attack of one of them.

I saw the tape played on both CNN and the local NBC affiliate, and both showed the beginning where he attacked. FOX News, ironically, didn't show that part when I saw their coverage.

	02-12-2003 23:04									#87
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Gee, I found out something about you today. Do you often refer to our African-American cousins using the "n" word?

Yeah -- I'm such a racist or a white supremacist.

Too bad you couldn't comprehend the context of my use of that word -- as others have pointed out to you.

	02-12-2003 23:06									#88
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I could be wrong, but It seems as though MF's posts of late have been taking a fairly aggressive 'tone'.

Maybe I'm just bitter that I stayed in Charleston to work on two research projects over Thanksgiving week, instead of being with family and friends in eastern Iowa.


Or maybe it's something else.

	02-12-2003 23:13									#89
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What they were doing when I saw it, was to lead the story by showing the part of the tape where the cops are hitting him then after much discussion by pundit-morons show the first part of the tape where he attacks the cop. The impression given by that switcheroo is that he was just defending himself.

I'm not sure why it's ironic about FOX doing so but I saw that occur on all the news shows I watched yesterday (to varying degrees).

	02-12-2003 23:17									#90
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Maybe I'm just bitter that I stayed in Charleston to work on two research projects over Thanksgiving week, instead of being with family and friends in eastern Iowa. Or maybe it's something else.

I guess that cant be Charleston SC, else I couldn't understand why you'd rather be in Iowa.