14-04-2001 10:30									#32
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Okay guys,

I am getting really confused here. It is about the techs. I have made no progress in that department, because I'm caught in loops of logic and thought. I can't seem to understand exactly what I need to do to get things to work like I want.


I am confused as to how to have units that cannot be built, but are viewable in the Civlopedia. Because this is not 'normal', it isn't really cover very well in any of the guides I've read so far.

I suppose that is not totally necessary to have the units in the Civlopedia, but it would be so much better to have them there.

I don't even need techs at all if I totally just want to take the easy way out. Just change all the techs to 'no,nil' and blast away witrh event-generated units. But that is kinda amaturish. I'd rather put some time into it.

I have sorta hit a roadblock, because I can't proceed in one area untill another is done, and on and on. it is frustrating, but there is always time to fine tune unit graphics!

I hope this turns out to be something to be proud of when I am done....probably not

	15-04-2001 01:25									#34
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Thanks BeBro!
BTW, I think your Imp. Romanum is excellent! It is one fo the few Anciet scenarios that keeps my attention. Great work!

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 04-14-2001 07:31 AM Note: I´m not sure, but I think Tech1 MUST have nil/no (NOT no/nil). If I recall correctly you have to enable Tech1 (nil/nil) to give it via cheat menu, then change it back to nil/no after you´ve given it to Germany.

Okay, but IIRC this should be done at the end, or else the computer(via the BAK file) will change it back right. IIRC somewhere I've read that if you use the in-game editor after you make these changes
it'll switch 'em back because (to it) they don't make any sense.


Okay, now what about these special tech effects? You mean like Philosophy and how it gives 2 free advances etc? Are these things hardcoded to those particular techs? So, I should maybe just change those ones to 'no,no' and just throw them away. With the ammount of other advances I am sure I can afford to trash the few that have special effects. I don't need them causing me any headaches....I have enough of those already!

	15-04-2001 04:37									#37
	Remove this text

Bebro: I think I am starting to get it! Let me elaborate on your explanation as I understand them, and tell me if I am following what you mean correctly. My additions will be in italics.


You can setup different techtrees for each civ. Example:

Germans:

Tech1 - needs: nil/no, given per cheat menu from the start. (We'll call it 'Leibensraum' for now)

Tech2 - needs: Tech1/nil, given per cheat menu from the start. (We'll call it 'Agressive Warfare' for now)

Tech3 (and more) - need: Tech2/nil (or other, higher tech).(We'll call it 'Wermacht' for now).

Tech4 - needs: Tech3/nil. This will never actually get discovered.
Techs 4 through say 15, could be named directly for the units they are attatched to. The unit Techs(4-15) do not need to be strung together, they can now all have 'Wermacht/nil' for the settings.


Make all German units AND techs available with Tech3-'Wermacht'. This tech (and later ones) will be unreachable, so units cannot ever be built, but will be viewable in the Civlopedia.

Give all German units real prerequisites ('Wermacht')... (a "no"-unit doesn´t appear in the civilopedia), but make sure that these prerequisites are part of the German techtree only, as described above. Since the whole techtree bases on Tech1- ('Leibensraum'), which can´t be researched (due to the nil/no setting), no other civ can have German units or techs.


Note: I´m not sure, but I think Tech1 MUST have nil/no (NOT no/nil). If I recall correctly you have to enable Tech1 (nil/nil) to give it via cheat menu, then change it back to nil/no after you´ve given it to Germany.Obviously do the same for the Soviet 'starter' Tech.



So, everybody.... Does this make sense? Have I finally figured out what to do? I feel like a great 'Fog of War' has been lifted as I can start to see what I need to do here.

I pray that you guys see that there are no problems with my logic here.


[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 14, 2001).]

	15-04-2001 16:24									#38
	Suffering from ads?

There are some alternative possibilities also.

Make a technologies:

Tech A, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0
Tech B, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0

Set that all Soviet units are obsoleted by Tech A and all Axis units are obsoleted by Tech B.

Give Axis Tech A and Soviets Tech B.

Then you don't need to have separate tech trees for each civ but only one common tech tree.

For example Panzer IV and T-34 can have the same tech as prerequisite. But only Axis can build Pz IV and only Soviets T-34.

You save a lot of techs for other purposes.

	15-04-2001 16:26									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I read your previous messages over and understood that you don't want that ANY unit will be built.
Then there is no need to make any tech trees at all.

You can do simply this way:

1. Make a technology like this:

Units, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0

2. Put it as prerequisite to all units.
3. Make sure that nobody has this tech from the beginning (the best: delete all techs from everyone)

Results:
1. Nobody can build any units
2. All units are viewable in Civilopedia.

During the game give civilizations specific techs by events, like:

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Unit A
attacker=Axis
defender=Soviets
@THEN
GIVETECHNOLOGY
receiver=Axis
technology=93
@ENDIF

and:

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=93
receiver=Axis
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Unit B
owner=Axis
veteran=yes
homecity=NONE
locations
64,35
23,12
endlocations
JUSTONCE
@ENDIF

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=93
receiver=Axis
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Unit C
owner=Axis
veteran=yes
homecity=NONE
locations
64,35
23,12
endlocations
@ENDIF

The Tech 93 can look like:

Tech A, 1, 0, nil, no, 0, 0 ; X1

Result:
If Axis manages to kill Soviet Unit A, then he gets free Unit B (only once - JUSTONCE) and Unit C (every turn until the end of scenario). Units appear in location 64,35 and if it is occupied by enemy, in square 23,12.

There are 100 available techs in Civ2. They are numbered from 0 to 99 (from up to down).

	15-04-2001 19:41									#41
	Put an end to popups!

Just meake sure that the cities can build something, thje game might well crash otherwise (rename capitalization to something).

	15-04-2001 22:03									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, Henrik. I was thinking they would need something to build... 'Captialization' renamed is an excellent idea!

As you have seen at CivFanatics Marko, I have completed a tech tree! Basically, it only serves the purpose of making an astetically pleasing structure to the Civlopedia. Units are devided by country, then branch of service. This ate up 15 tech slots (skipped over those slots with special effects), but I think that 85 techs for events like the ones you mentioned above should be enough.


Alas, I hit a BIG wall yesterday


Whilst I was looking at design tips in order to progress, I decided to look at something I thought was sorta a 'finishing touch'...the sounds. Well, to my utter surprise and dismay I find that the sounds for units are very much tied into their unit slot!!!! That is so dumb, it makes no sense to have that hard-coded into the game!?! So now I have to go back and totally rearrange the units, but first I have to figure which ones are gonna use the same sounds etc.


I am thinking of making many new, never-before-heard sound samples from movies. My buddies have all kinds of good equipment for that. I am aware of the requirements (8bit, mono whatever) for the sounds. This is just a big pain in the arse, because nowe I have to stop building, and sit down to conceptualize again. The sounds were so far from my mind that it is really not something I was prepared to deal with just yet... Oh well, take it as it comes. Okay, back into the fray...

	16-04-2001 09:26									#43
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Wow, that was annoying... I refigured my units so that they all share the appropriate sounds. Now I just have to edit up the rules.txt and fiddle with the tech tree, but I have that under control. I am starting to get this.
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 16, 2001).]

	20-04-2001 02:04									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, here is a picture of the map with most of the 'cities' placed. I have been working hard at this in the past few days. I have all the techs distributed, and what I think will be all of the cities placed.

Now for some testing of unit stats....maybe a few more minibattles... Comming along nicely.

	20-04-2001 09:56									#45
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Good!

	23-04-2001 03:58									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Update! Update! We need an update!

	23-04-2001 09:22									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Are you going to use global warming to give the city artillery damage?

	23-04-2001 10:24									#48
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Okay fellas,

Well, to tell you the truth, I've rather bogged down with classwork, and it seems that this will continue on through the week.

After setting up the map in a more permanent sense with the cities etc, I sorta got a little bored with the tedious aspects of design. I opted to go and fetch some sounds. First I chose from my scenario library any old sounds that can serve my pourposes, then I decided I wanted to make many of them from scratch. I surprised myself when I figured out how to hook my VCR into my computer and I went about getting some tatsy clips. But I will say they were subpar in quality, something wasn't right. Obviously the crappy sound recorder on the average pc isn't very good. Kobayashi emailed me GWave 303, it looks much better. I am gonna have to figure some of it out, but it has much better options to enhance the sounds. After all this classwork, I will probably go about testing the unit strengths more. I also need to take into account terrain bonuses, as rubble and buildings will be heavy on the defense.

DV: I think you've mistaken me for an actual scenario designer!
During the building of this I have run into so many cool ideas and neat things that I have no idea how to do, or if they are even possible. For instance, the extent of my knowledge of events triggers and things goes as far as the scenarios I have in my library. I try to look and seewhat people have done, and what they did to get it to happen. The manual has a brief list, but I've learned to look much farther than the manual.

Basically I hope you guys aren't dissapointed by the level of quality in this thing. I am doing my best, but I really have no idea what I am doing... Just ask WarVoid! That poor chap gets late night IM's from me asking him to look at my terrain files for problems! He he, sorry man

I am doing my best to make this as accurate and cool a scenario that I can build. When I finish, I want to revise it indefinately untill it satifies. At this point, I know there will be things I'd rather see going on, but I just don't know how to do. Gee, really makes you want to play it doesn't it? Don't worry, I wouldn't deface the great name of Klesh with a piece of crap product.
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 23, 2001).]

	27-04-2001 23:04									#49
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

DISASTER STRIKES!!!

I'm gonna need some help fellas!
I was just doing a little building to Stalingrad, and I saved it as 'Current.scn'. I closed down Civ, started it up again, loaded the scenario.....BAM...illegal operation and Civ shuts down to the desktop! I loaded the older versions of the scenario and even they won't work. I loaded up other scenarios and they work fine, so something is wrong on my end for sure. Any ideas? I hope all is not lost...

	27-04-2001 23:48									#50
	Put an end to popups!

Send it to someone else (me for example ) this person could try to launch it and see if it worked for him.
In case it does this person could save the scenario again and you could try to start it again.

	28-04-2001 02:31									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Most likely the problem is in the rules.txt, at least that'd be my first guess. I've had my scenarios crash during construction stages usually because of something wrong in the rules, like the tech tree. However, i would normally get the "illegal operation" error when I made 1 unit attack another, not upon loading the scenario. However, I don't think this matters in this case, since all of your previous scenario files do not work but other scenarios do.

If I were you (and I have been) in this situation, this is what I'd do.

1)remove rulex.txt from your scenario folder.

2)load the scenario. hopefully, it should be able to load. if not, try other files such as events.txt, or game.txt. maybe even the gifs

assuming the scenario works after removing rules:

3)use a brand new rules.txt in your scenario folder. make sure you save your old one. copy sections out of the old rules into the new, load the scenario and see if it works. For example, just copy and paste the technologies first then load. If it works, copy another part over, like unit statistics. Do this until the game will no longer load again. You will know that the problem is with the section you just copied over. Carefully look it over and you should see a mistake in there.

4)After getting the scenario to work properly again, you thank MagyarCrusader.

------------------
"The Rumanians are really the most reliable people in the world when it comes to depending upon their breaking any promises they make." - General Harry Hill Bandholtz, US Army, 22 NOV 1919. General Bandholtz was the one who saved the Crown Jewels from the Rumanians. His statue sits in front of the American Embassy in Budapest.
Truth

	28-04-2001 03:16									#52
	Support Apolyton

Wow, major disaster resolved into a minor difficulty. The problem was one letter in the rules.txt. I had made the prereq for a unit 'Col' where it needed to be 'CoL'.
I had to do alot of searching to find it, but I tracked it down eventually. It was a dumb mistake, but goes to show just how careful one needs to be.
Thanks for your help everyone, yes, that includes you MagyarCrusader .

	29-04-2001 20:45									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Okay, here's one quick question...

The names for the difficulty leves, is this in the rules.txt only? I have changed that, and the game displays the default titles (cheiftan, prince etc) Here is what I have typed in the rules.txt:

@DIFFICULTY
Shütze
Unteroffizier
Hauptmann
Oberst
Generaloberst
Feldmarschall


There are the required spaces before the first and after the last lines of text. I guess I need to change it elsewhere? Labels? Pedia? A quick point in the right direction, if you please.
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 29, 2001).]

	01-05-2001 00:23									#56
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I couldn't find what to change in the labels.txt. I looked for the default names to change them, should I be looking for something else?

Also, where can i get a copy of the original labels from my cd? When I explore the cd, i get nothing more than wonder movies etc. I never even started with a fresh rules.txt or anything. I've just taken them from other scenarios, and set about replacing things as needed. Quite amature, I know. But its working so far. So a little how-to on the labels.txt thing would be cool. Thanks.

FMK

	01-05-2001 15:50									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Names of difficulty levels are stored in Games.txt.

	01-05-2001 20:05									#58
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Booyah! Thank you Marko. There's quite alot in that file too... lots of things to spice up the scenario. Thanks again.

FMK

	04-05-2001 06:17									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Update! Update! Keep goin! Don't loose the "Civ Faith"!

IMPORTANT NOTE: FMK, I suggest you make a backup copy of your scenario to another directory on your HD (just a copy) and/or to a floppy. I do this for all my scenarios and literally have about a hundred floppy's with scenario's i've written on them.

If you don't know how to do this you can once again call on me and i'll walk you through the process.

	04-05-2001 09:57									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank Field Marshal Klesh for making a ww2 campaign scenario playable from the Axis side, it's about time. And if you flake out on this scenario, like many sleague posters do, I'm going to kill you...

------------------
"The Rumanians are really the most reliable people in the world when it comes to depending upon their breaking any promises they make." - General Harry Hill Bandholtz, US Army, 22 NOV 1919. General Bandholtz was the one who saved the Crown Jewels from the Rumanians. His statue sits in front of the American Embassy in Budapest.
Truth