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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:32
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Let's take an example of glorification that distorts the history of the Civil:
Northern glorification: From the beginning, the Union set out to liberate blacks from slavery and through Reconstruction, sought to give them equal citizenship.
This over simplification ignores the fact that racism was prevalent among Union soldiers.
That the Northern states were hypocritical after the Civil War -- they were much more gun-ho about enfranchising blacks in the defeated Southern states, but were more reluctant to give Northern blacks, Chinese, and Amerindians the franchise.
Or, that there were some Reconstruction state government office holders in Southern military districts and states who were either corrupt or incompetent.
Or how about that white Northerners after Reconstruction embraced white supremacy to reconcile with white Southerners on the South's terms of Jim Crow?
Of course, there are positive examples as well: black soldiers serving in the Union army; well-meaning, competent Northern office holders in the South during Reconstruction; and white Northerners who protested the "Lost Cause" reconciliation.
Southern glorification: The Southerners who favored secession never seceded over the issue of slavery; it was over the issue of states' rights. The Ku Klux Klan during early Reconstruction was an organization that was necessary to protect white women and children. Reconstruction was an undemocratic era of bayonet rule.
This oversimplification ignores the fact that the issue of slavery constantly emerged, and resurfaced throughout the history of antebellum America.
It also ignores the atrocities that the Ku Klux Klan committed, and that it became a racist, terrorist organization for the Democratic party.
It also ignores the facts on how Reconstruction failed -- it failed for TWO main reasons -- one, the corruption and/or incompetence of SOME of the Reconstruction office holders, and two, the wave of racial and political terrorism that violently suppressed Republican voting.
Of course, there are some small truths: a small minority of blacks were faithful slaves who were weary of the Union army.
There were some inccomptent, and/or corrupt Reconstruction office holders, as mentioned already, but not all were.
Northern states were unfairly pushing for immediate racial equality in the South, but were hypocritical by stalling the same development in their own Northern states.
These are examples of how Northern or Southern simplifications of this history still reveberates today, in that we are still struggling with race relations.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
And on balance of Federal Taxes for fiscal 2001:
http://www.ppinys.org/nybalpayments.htm
States that got less than they paid and how much less:
California: 58 billion
New York: 39.5 billion
Illinois: 25 Billion
New Jersey: 23 billion
Texas: 13 billion (only state to vote Bush)
Michigan: 11.7 billion
Massachussets: 11.5 billion
Connecticutt: 11 billion
Washington: 9.4 billion
Wisconsin: 5.6 billion
States that got more then they paid, and how much more:
Virginia: 21.9 billion
Alabama: 10.7 billion
Maryland: 9 billion
Mississippi: 8.9 billion
New Mexico: 8.6 billion
Oklahoma: 7 billion
Kentucky: 6.7 billion
Tennessee: 5.7 billion
South Carolina: 5.2 billion
West Virginia: 5.2 billion
Do we see a pattern? So what I said happens to be 100% correct. |
Oh darn! You beat me to it! You know what's really funny? When I was a hot headed teenaged liberal in 1968 and then interested in accumulating such facts in order to argue with my pro-Wallace classmates the list of which states gave more than they received and which ones got more than they gave was just about the same! I think the list includes total federal expenditures in the state, not just entitlements. Virginia has the Pentagon, Quantico, and the Norfolk Navy Yards largely to thank for its whopping lead as recipient of Federalis' largess.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
I think the list includes total federal expenditures in the state, not just entitlements. Virginia has the Pentagon, Quantico, and the Norfolk Navy Yards largely to thank for its whopping lead as recipient of Federalis' largess. |
That's probably why Maryland is high on that list too. |
Don't forget we're the also sight of the triple-plus good, ultra-secret umti-billion dollar secret CIA headquarters located right off of Interstate 95 in Arlington. Would you like a map?
Ssshhhhhh. Don't tell anyone I told you. It'll be our little secret.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Oh darn! You beat me to it! You know what's really funny? When I was a hot headed teenaged liberal in 1968 and then interested in accumulating such facts in order to argue with my pro-Wallace classmates the list of which states gave more than they received and which ones got more than they gave was just about the same! I think the list includes total federal expenditures in the state, not just entitlements. Virginia has the Pentagon, Quantico, and the Norfolk Navy Yards largely to thank for its whopping lead as recipient of Federalis' largess. |
Then one asks themsleves about the rest iof the states beyond Virginia and maryland. Sorry, but the inequality in spending does not match- how many major military installations are in California?
The resulst are simple, and once you look at both sets of numbers it is clear-the northern states are richer-they pay out more in Federal taxes period and this money goes to where the need is, and interestingly, the poor states is where the need is. My problem is tno that this system exists, but that ungratefull southeners, who recieve very large benefits from the redistribution of national wealth act as if they were loosing out in the system. If the south wants to proetcts its "values", fine, do it. Just don;'t expect the money you get from the richer states.
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19-12-2003 10:36
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