24-12-2003 07:14									#91
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it's a vast smear all across north georgia. that's what i don't like about it, everything's so.... spread out. the skyscrapers are naked and lonely, being so far apart from each other. the superhighways are clogged like the arteries of a 600-lbs man. outside of that, it's great.

	24-12-2003 07:14									#92
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* Arrian wonders how long it will take for this to dissolve into a communism vs. capitalism spamfest

	24-12-2003 07:15									#94
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Allende's problem were his political allies, that's all I'm going to say. But still, even taking that into consideration, Pinochet was still worse.

Now for the list, in no particular order...


1-Nazism and the Holocaust, WWII
2-(Violent) Revolutionary Communism
3-Racism & Xenophobia
4-The continuing ruin & exploitation of the Third World
5-Slavery
6-Religious persecution & Extremism
7-The Military use of Nuclear Technology
8-Man's Damage to the Environment
9-Mass Media's difusion of Porn & Violence (pure crap)
10-The Near Extermination of many ancient cultures (native americans, for example).

	24-12-2003 07:19									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed the other side of the atrocity is that they missed scarlett o'hara and that brett whatever, too. i'm so sick of that goddamned story. 5. would have to be gone with the wind.

RHETT!!

Gone With the Wind is a classic.

	24-12-2003 07:20									#96
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Terry Goodkind
Star Wars Episode 1 & 2

	24-12-2003 07:20									#97
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quote: everything's so.... spread out.

Great thing . Makes it an awesome city!

quote: the superhighways are clogged like the arteries of a 600-lbs man.

Only if you take them at bad times. And you can always avoid the traffic by taking side streets.

	24-12-2003 07:21									#98
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1. genocide of north american tribes
2. holocaust
3. american imperialism post-WWII
4. Japanese imperialism
5. Spanish Imperialism
6. British Imperialism
7. Stalin
8. Hiroshima/Nagasaki

	24-12-2003 07:58									#99
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500 years? That means going back to 1503...

1. Annahilation of the Native Americans
2. The Transatlantic slave trade and slavery in the Americas
3. Taipeng Rebellion
4. The religious wars from 1520-1648
5. World War 2
6. The Holocaust
7. Stalin's reign of the USSR
8. Mao's reign in China
9. WW1
10. The Khmer Rouge

Of course, this is heavily influenced by modern history, so who knows what great evil from the hisotry of Western, Central or Southern Asia we are missing- though Tamarlane's reign just missed the date.

	24-12-2003 08:13									#100
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1/ Probably the Holocaust
2/ China since the Taipeng rebellion (on and on and on!)
3/ New World intentional and unintentional conquest.
4/ The 'communist' revolution in Russia.
5/ Russia's eastern expansion. Unknown millions were wiped out, usually more brutally than in NA.
6/ Armenia
7/ Cambodia
8/ Rwanda
9/ The 1949 division of India and Pakistan. So much wasted potential.
10/ Trans-Atlantic slavery.

11...? Hmm... probably 'Vietnam', I mean the whole affair from the French conquest to the American withdrawal.

I wonder if since most of these happened in the 20th C, if the previous 400 years were much less bloodthirsty? Nothing from those times really stands out.

	24-12-2003 08:18									#101
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Well, about 90% of all peoples of the America's died within 100 years of coming into contact with Europeans- depending on how many Native Americans there were, we are talking from a bit some number between 5 and 10 million and a number between 25 and 50 million (trying to figure out populations that were annahilated so thouroughly is hard.

As Bloody as the 20th century was, the pop. still went from about 1.8 billion in 1900 to 6 billion in 2000. Which means that all that bloodletting in the 20th century made but a slight and non-permanent dent in the human population.

	24-12-2003 08:19									#102
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider 1. genocide of north american tribes 2. holocaust 3. american imperialism post-WWII 4. Japanese imperialism 5. Spanish Imperialism 6. British Imperialism 7. Stalin 8. Hiroshima/Nagasaki

How in God's Name did "American Imperialism post-WW2" (what with all our recently aquired colonies in the last 60 years) beat out:

Japanese Imperialism: ( Rape of Nanking, "Comfort Women", Bataan Death March, general *******ness...wee!)

Spanish Imperialism: Complete destroyed two devolped civilizations(although I'd say the bloodthirsty Aztecs weren't much better), Depopulated, completely, the Caribbean of Natives, Killed millions and millions of Natives int eh Western Hemisphere, Phillippines.

British Imperialism: What there Hell is this doing in the Top ten? It beat out the Rwanda Genocide, disintigration of Yugoslavia, Oppression of Eastern Europe, the Khmer Rouge, The 30 yrs War, Vlad the Impaler, Mao, the institute of Chattel slavery in the Americas, and Armenian Genocide? Classy.

Stalin: Yeah, he was responsible with way less death and oppression than "Post WW2 Imperialism".

Hiroshima/Nagasaki Without getting into the MOrality, there's no way this should beat out "Post WW2 Imperialism" (which should be somewhere around30 on outrages). Hell, it shouldn't beat out Dresden or Tokyo.

I'd almost suspect you're just being a kneejeck America hater. You're allowing the (relatively) minor outrages of postWW2 American Foriegn Policy beat out a sh*tload worse outrages.

	24-12-2003 08:21									#103
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Who said it was ranked in order of preference, dipshit?

	24-12-2003 08:22									#104
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quote: Who said it was ranked in order of preference, dipshit?

Because you PUT NUMBERS ON IT!

I mean, really. If you number a list, that is basically implies a ranking unless you say it isn't.

	24-12-2003 08:23									#105
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No, it implies I'm creating a list.

	24-12-2003 08:23									#106
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Two words:

Fear Factor

	24-12-2003 08:24									#107
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quote: I wonder if since most of these happened in the 20th C, if the previous 400 years were much less bloodthirsty? Nothing from those times really stands out.

Naw, it is just that you recall the 20th C stuff more. There were plenty of bloodletting in the 1500-1600s with the religious wars in Europe. And then imperialism and expansion caused great deaths. A lot of it was gradual though, and not all at once. The 20th Century allowed us to kill faster and more efficiently.

	24-12-2003 08:24									#108
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider No, it implies I'm creating a list.

Not when the thread subject is Top Ten outrages.


-Lonestar, "It's pronounced Doo-mahs"

	24-12-2003 08:26									#109
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It is understandable that 20th century outrages get top billing, given how little we relaively know about outrages prior to that- supposedly what French troops did in the Paletine in the 1680's was at the time though of as some of the worse war outrages EVER- like hell anyone knows what really happened then anymore, or cares.

Oh, and Vlad was prior to 1503, no? Plus he was small scale- even if he killed 50k, that ain;t much in the "outrage" game.

	24-12-2003 08:29									#110
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quote: supposedly what French troops did in the Paletine in the 1680's was at the time though of as some of the worse war outrages EVER- like hell anyone knows what really happened then anymore, or cares.

Well you can just say that and not explain what they did .

quote: Vlad was prior to 1503, no?

I believe the Impailer was more around 1200-1300

	24-12-2003 08:37									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Two words: Fear Factor

I would expand this to include Reality TV in general.

	24-12-2003 08:39									#112
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quote: I would expand this to include Reality TV in general.

No.. because sometimes it is fun to watch people get what's coming to them (like the first episode of Average Joe when the chick realizes all the dudes aren't good looking... or Joe Millionaire, when ther gold digger finds out the guy is penniless)

	24-12-2003 08:40									#113
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You are a very wierd man, Imran.

	24-12-2003 08:40									#114
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Oh, and Vlad was prior to 1503, no? Plus he was small scale- even if he killed 50k, that ain;t much in the "outrage" game.

Looks like I missed it by the skin of my teeth,
1431-1476.



Alright, fine, my point is there are lots more outrages that beat out "Post WW2 American Foriegn Policy"

	24-12-2003 08:41									#115
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Did I argue that point?

	24-12-2003 08:41									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Btw, ~30 million people died during the Taiping Rebellion so that has to rank way up there.

Is that the same thing as the Boxer Rebellion? Were the bulk of the dead killed by the Chinese government, the rebels, or western intervention?

Someone should have mentioned the African Ivory Trade. The sultans of East Africa were especially cruel to their porters. Some authors claim that one African died for each tusk of ivory brought to port. It is said that stragglers were executed along the way, and that once the ivory was deliverd to the island of Zanzibar the porters were forced to try to swim back to the mainland, a distance of 10 miles. Virtually none of them made it. The sultans justified their treatment of their laborers by claiming it to be a "holy duty" of the non-arabic black muslims to serve the arabic masters. They claimed that those who died in service were guarenteed a place in heaven, though not quite as good a place as that reserved for arabs. The estimated number who died during the ivory hunts may have been higher than 500,000 in some years. Over a period of nearly a century it really added up.

	24-12-2003 08:45									#117
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I would expand this to include Reality TV in general.

I would agree, with the following exceptions: The Amazing Race, and Survivor (most of the time).

	24-12-2003 08:47									#118
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Did I argue that point?

No. You merely nitpicked it.

	24-12-2003 08:48									#119
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quote: British Imperialism: What there Hell is this doing in the Top ten?

Slavery, Irish potato famine, Australian Aborigines, French & Indian war, American Revolution, Cromwell (he may have been before 1500), India and Africa, complicity in the Taiping Rebellion and Opium Wars, etc... You know, the sun never sets on the British empire...

	24-12-2003 08:48									#120
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quote: Is that the same thing as the Boxer Rebellion?

No. It's pretty complicated, but basically involved a pseudo-Christian group in Southern China winning a lot of followers and then getting all rowdy. Once they rebelled, the Chinese government stepped in and all hell broke loose.