08-01-2004 04:59									#1
	SGLs and Me Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm playing as Babylonians on regent, and I've been leading the game in science. It's now ~1450 AD, and I haven't seen a single SGL. Is there something I'm not doing?

Remembering Civ2: does anyone else recall the science screen (or something like that) where it showed all the techs you had, and the ones you'd researched first were a different colour? That doesn't sound like the most complicated addon in the world... anyone agree with me?

	08-01-2004 05:32									#2
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I have played all the way to a space launch and not gotten any SGL, being first to all modern and most idustrial techs and a bunch of others in the other ages.

	08-01-2004 08:38									#3
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For a scientific civ to NEVER get a SGL while qualifying for the following number of techs (rounded to the nearest whole):
30 techs: 21%
40 techs: 13%

So, even if you were the first in almost everything, you would still have a greater than 1/8 chance of not getting a SGL. DON'T count on them appearing!

	08-01-2004 10:05									#4
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I've played several epic games and been first to bunches of techs. I think the SGL is like the Tooth Fairy--just something to keep the 'kids' playing.

Steven

	08-01-2004 10:48									#5
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Steven, I'm with you mate!

Like many posters here, I've had C3C for about 2 months now. I've played a bunch of epic games, mostly at Emperor and occasionally at Demi-God.....and usually cheat, lie and whore myself to the tech lead by the mid to late middle ages (on Emperor, at least).

In all that time I have not had one SGL. On one recent Emperor game (Mountain Sage's Emperor thread - fun game that one) I was in the tech lead from late Ancient age until game end. Still - ZIP!

I don't even know what the frigging SGL icon looks like!

Cheers!

	08-01-2004 11:41									#6
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The SGL unit is a miniEinstein

Don't shoot me, I've had an SGL twice now in about a dozen conquests games by getting to Code of Laws first both times But note that's only 2 out of 12 games, and only one has beeen played to the modern era (No more SGL's, but I've had 3 MGLs, thanks to the Heroic Epic )

Any thoughts on if there are certain techs more likely to generate one?

edijt : My bad, that was Philosophy and the 2 techs in one turn sweetening of the RNG for an SGL that did it. But it's not reliable And why didn't I get one with ToE in my Maya game? Hmph. Stupid RNG.

Last edited by Makahlua on 08-01-2004 at 11:51

	08-01-2004 15:23									#7
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SGL's do exist. I have had them (with non-scientific civs) in both the epic game and in one of the Conquest scenarios (AoD). They aren't meant to be easily obtainable.

	08-01-2004 17:46									#8
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I contrived a one-player scenario such that every tech aside from Bronze Working and Alphabet (the Greeks' free techs) gave a free tech. Then I played as the Greeks and researched Pottery, giving me every tech in the game, plus one Future Tech. (This was to see how many SGLs came up, to see if bonus techs can spawn SGLs or only the first tech in any chain of bonuses.) This only gave 3 SGLs. It did confirm my hypothesis that getting Philosophy will double your chances for an SGL (and even gives you a tiny chance for 2 SGLs), though, which was my aim. (ToE will probably give you added chances, too, but I didn't actually test it.)

EDIT: Here's the original post I made about that.

- Kef

Last edited by furrykef on 08-01-2004 at 18:58

	08-01-2004 17:57									#9
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I've played on the easier levels and I've had quite a few. i played the greeks and i got plato? Are they specific to each civ? I've also had einstein, but it could be that he appeared in a later age?

	08-01-2004 18:52									#10
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Yes, different civs have different SGL names.

- Kef

	08-01-2004 19:51									#11
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Sounds like not too many unique names should be needed...

	08-01-2004 20:03									#12
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Don't kill me guys, but over the course of 4 games (3 epic, 1 conquest), I've had about 7 SGLs.

I've been a tech leader for most of the game and received nothing, playing Greece. I've also received three SGLs in the course of discovering 5 techs (as a non-scientific civ, mind you). Playing Egypt in the Mesopotamian Conquest, I got a SGL from the first tech I researched. Playing Sumer through the mid-middle ages (never did finish that game... that's the one where I ran into the Great Wall bug), nada.

It's random, folks.

-Arrian

	08-01-2004 20:20									#13
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Great Wall bug?

- Kef

	08-01-2004 21:11									#14
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It might have been fixed by now, furrykef.

There is a page in the Conquests Bug Thread where RobC and I both encountered the same bug within a couple of hours of each other:

If you bombarded they city w/the Great Wall in it (in my case, Thebes), your shots would not hit units, but rather improvements, INCLUDING Wonders (which includes the palace). It was really weird.

-Arrian

	08-01-2004 21:14									#15
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Here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=6

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 00:45									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Don't kill me guys, but over the course of 4 games (3 epic, 1 conquest), I've had about 7 SGLs. It's random, folks. -Arrian

I've had games where I have seen none at all and one game with three.

In the "Don't kill me" category: the present game (as Spain) I got one on the first tech I researched (Writing on the beeline to Philosophy) and then had a sudden decision of what to do with the unexpected surprise. A couple turns later, I got Masonry from a goody hut, and presto, instant Pyramids. I live in fear of whatever retribution the RNG is going to inflict in return for such good fortune so early.

It is indeed random, like dice, cards, and my cat's moods. (pet me, stay away, pet me, stay away, pet me, you're beneath noticing, pet me, etc)(However, the "Feed me" part is constant.)

	09-01-2004 02:10									#17
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quote: I live in fear of whatever retribution the RNG is going to inflict in return for such good fortune so early.

No kidding! You're gonna get it for that!

-Arrian

p.s. @ your cat's moods. This is why I'm a dog person. They're stupid, but they're consistent (pet me, pet me, play with me, play with me, pet me, pet me, play with me, play with me).

	09-01-2004 03:39									#18
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Is it possible to get an SGL from a tech received from a minor tribe or is it restricted to researched techs only?

	09-01-2004 06:41									#19
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quote: Originally posted by teaster Is it possible to get an SGL from a tech received from a minor tribe or is it restricted to researched techs only?

I think we might have to wait for the devs to comment on that one, unless somebody reports it having actually happened, preferably with proof of course. Not even The Editor(TM) provides an easy means to test this without a zillion trials with a Scientific + Expansionist civ and tons of goodie huts.

- Kef

	09-01-2004 11:46									#20
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I just did a quick test and got no SGLs from goodie huts with a limited test. I made a map with the Russians and placed settlers in the center of a mass of goody huts so when they settle you pop all the huts at once. I did notice once you hit the Middle Ages you will not pop any techs.

	09-01-2004 20:41									#21
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I'm pretty positive that you cannot get SGL's from goodie hut techs.

With regard to SGL's in general, for whatever reason, I seem to be REALLY lucky with them. I've had dozens over the course of all my C3C games. I even got one from The Wheel once! I probably average 2-3 per game with a scientific civ and 1-2 per game with a non-scientific civ. This is mostly in MP epic games at monarch/emperor level.

Now if I could just get the combat RNG to be so kind.


Mo D

Last edited by MotownDennis on 09-01-2004 at 20:51

	09-01-2004 21:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by SirOsis I made a map with the Russians and placed settlers in the center of a mass of goody huts so when they settle you pop all the huts at once.

Well, you beat me for editor ingenuity, I think. Still, to be sure, we'd have to repeat this enough until either we get an SGL from a hut or it's failed to happen enough times to be statistically impossible. Although I do think it'd be kind of weird getting an SGL from a hut...it is probably safe to say it can't happen.

- Kef

	10-01-2004 00:03									#23
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* steven8r growls at Catt, and Eris, et al grrr!

My last game, I was able to generate 15 MGL's--the game's still going. No SGL's EVER!!!!

I'll just have to keep playing.

Steven

	10-01-2004 00:06									#24
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quote: Originally posted by steven8r * steven8r growls at Catt, and Eris, et al grrr! My last game, I was able to generate 15 MGL's--the game's still going. No SGL's EVER!!!! I'll just have to keep playing.

Hey! Growl at Arrian, not me -- I haven't experienced that kind of luck -- my SGLs have come, if at all, late in the industrial age (with perhaps one in the Medieval Age) when they're not much use.

Catt

	10-01-2004 00:20									#25
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I've been playing Monarch, where I can get and hold a tech lead relatively early in the game (particularly with the Philo free tech and the new contact rules), and that has obviously enhanced my chances of getting SGLs.

But growl away, I deserve it for the absurd luck I got in that one Iroquois game: 3 SGLs in the early-mid middle ages. Sistine, Bach, Smiths, all free. I am definitely going to pay for that.

Hmm, maybe that explains the fortified vet hoplite I lost to an attacking regular warrior in my Greek game.

-Arrian

	10-01-2004 01:15									#26
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I admittedly haven't played as many Conquests games as some, but I have received exactly two SGLs in all my games so far. One came in my very first Conquests game with my very first tech research (what a way to start ), and the other on my very first tech in a recent game that I quit playing because I was mad at myself.

	10-01-2004 01:16									#27
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My sister is in a game as the Byzantines on Monarch. She's in the middle of the medieval tech tree, and has gotten 5 scientific leaders so far. She's gonna win the one city cultural in the Industrial age.

	10-01-2004 03:30									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Catt Hey! Growl at Arrian, not me -- I haven't experienced that kind of luck -- my SGLs have come, if at all, late in the industrial age (with perhaps one in the Medieval Age) when they're not much use. Catt

My appologies Catt. un-grrr

* steven8r redirects growl grrrrr, Arrian!

I think y'all need to quit getting so many SGL's per game. Obviously you're pulling them from my games.

I'm just jealous.


Steven

	10-01-2004 03:53									#29
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steven8r/ Rhothaerill:

I don't know why you're complaining. I get many SGL's in every game. I can always build every ancient era Wonder in every game. I can show you how to do this too. You just need to research faster than everyone else. I call it the fanes7 method.

(For those of you who don't get the joke, fanes7 was a poster who (briefly) made a name for himself by insisting that he had a way to ensure that you generated huge numbers of GL's in PTW. When people pressed him for details, the most he would ever say is "you need to fight a lot of battles with your elite units." Most people assume that he simply reloaded after every elite battle until he generated a GL.)

	10-01-2004 04:00									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Tall Stranger (For those of you who don't get the joke, fanes7 was a poster who (briefly) made a name for himself by insisting that he had a way to ensure that you generated huge numbers of GL's in PTW. When people pressed him for details, the most he would ever say is "you need to fight a lot of battles with your elite units." Most people assume that he simply reloaded after every elite battle until he generated a GL.)

It wasn't an assumption, it was a proven fact. He finally started posting screenshots of his tactics and there were certain inconsistencies there.

In any case I just had to laugh at your post.