13-11-2003 21:18									#151
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The load game screen does not default to the latest save game if the Japanese Sengoku Conquest was the last game I played. By no means a biggie, but a bug nevertheless.

	13-11-2003 22:48									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Catt I haven't tested it, but apparently Warpstorm did. The relevant posts are:

I double checked the help file, and they specifically mention artillery/bombard units with that flag. No mention is made of any other type of unit.

	13-11-2003 22:56									#153
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Certain effects still don't shut off with gov specific wonders. I haven't checked them all, but I do know that Reduces Corruption is still active after a gov switch. This was supposed to have been fixed a long, long time ago. This means that the new Secret Police HQ for Communism will still have an effect if a civ switches back to some other form of government. The only way around that is to have the Palace or Forbidden Palace as a building prerequisite.

I'm really disappointed that no one has bothered to fix that after all this time. That was supposedly dealt with after the first patch or two for vanilla Civ, yet it's still an issue.

	13-11-2003 23:55									#154
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As an update to my previous post, the save game and reload doesn't seem to work very well. Even a restart of the game or reboot of the pc isn't fixing it...

	14-11-2003 00:08									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Willem I double checked the help file, and they specifically mention artillery/bombard units with that flag. No mention is made of any other type of unit.

It's largely academic, because either the CD flag works properly, in a counter-intuitive way (i.e., only works for regular units that also have 0-range bombard -- i.e., melee units) or it doesn't work correctly and will be fixed.

But it seems to me that it is working as designed, whether or not we like the design. The only unit with the flag enabled is a "regular" unit with A/D values that also has 0-range bombard. The help file language, strictly read, actually supports the interpretation because it says a unit with the CD flag enabled gets certain results when it "attacks." Technically, only units with A/D attack, bombard-only units "bombard." Finally, adding the CD flag to artillery-units does not produce any CD effects at all; adding it, together with a bombard value, to normal A/D units does produce CD effects.

Catt

	14-11-2003 00:36									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Willem ...the new Secret Police HQ for Communism will still have an effect if a civ switches back to some other form of government.

OMG, it's true!!!

	14-11-2003 00:38									#157
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quote: But it seems to me that it is working as designed, whether or not we like the design. The only unit with the flag enabled is a "regular" unit with A/D values that also has 0-range bombard.

My experience is that collateral damage can be assigned to any bombardment unit (I didn't try 0-range units). I designated Artillery, Bombers, and Battleships for CD.

	14-11-2003 01:41									#158
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A very minor bug: The civilopedia entry for 'combat' needs to be updated to include lethal bombardment.

	14-11-2003 01:42									#159
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quote: The "Renders Obsolete by..." flag in the editor doesn't work right with imrovements when it comes to happy faces. I created a religious building that was supposed to become obsolete with Theology, but the smiley faces still showed up afterwards. I did a test on other areas, production, taxes etc. and they all seem to work fine, just not the happiness buildings.

That sure sucks. Bah. So many critical bugs in this game. And they made us believe it was all rigoursly tested.

when's the next patch due?

	14-11-2003 02:20									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe quote: But it seems to me that it is working as designed, whether or not we like the design. The only unit with the flag enabled is a "regular" unit with A/D values that also has 0-range bombard. My experience is that collateral damage can be assigned to any bombardment unit (I didn't try 0-range units). I designated Artillery, Bombers, and Battleships for CD.

Sorry for the sloppy misstatement -- any unit that has a bombard value given to it has the flag available to it. What I was trying to say is that "enabling" CD to units without A/D values (i.e., artillery) doesn't do anything -- the artillery behave exactly as unmodded artillery. And planes and ships, when bombarding targets, behave exactly the same whether or not the CD flag is checked or not (didn't test air-to-air or sea-to-sea battles, but what would be collaterally damaged in such combats?).

Conversely, giving a land unit with A/D a bombard value and checking the CD flag means that it will have a chance at destroying a city improvement or a pop point when it takes even 1 HP from a city defender. I have not ever seen a CD-enabled land unit destroy terrain improvements when attacking units outside cities (as the editor help states should occur).

Are you seeing different behavior in your modded units?

A comment or two by a Firaxian or BreakAwayian on clarifying how collateral damge works, and whether it is working as intended, might be helpful here

Catt

	14-11-2003 03:47									#161
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I just noticed that the F3 shows 0 for my cannons. I had captured at least one and wanted to upgrade it. I located it and upgrade. I then did F3 and saw zero for arties?
Not a big deal, but I would hate to run into a civ that shows 0 and has a ton of them.

	14-11-2003 05:37									#162
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captured cannons don't count as cannons.

	14-11-2003 05:57									#163
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Yes, if you you will look into your "captured units" box, you'll see it includes not just workers anymore. It is assumed that they cost no maintenance.

Now, if this meant that captured bombards are only half as effective it would be meaningful. That they cost no maintenance seems strange to me, assuming you capture the hardware and have to man and provide ammo yourself.
-Aha, figured it out. You are supposed to "give" some arty to enemy AI, so they will (1) USE it, and (2) not have to pay for it.

Last edited by Jaybe on 14-11-2003 at 06:07

	14-11-2003 06:09									#164
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I see, I dislike that. I want to see all my units, I don't care how I got it.

	14-11-2003 06:14									#165
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Ok, so after all this talk about how land bombardment always targets units before improvements, I get this bizarre series of results:

70 BC: Beginning my seige of London. Two catapults in a row hit improvements (the first being their Palace!) even through the defenders are all at full health.

10 BC: Continuing my seige of London...last turn, I destroyed London's colosseum, but on my first bombardment of this turn, my catapult destroys...The Great Wall?!?!?!?

Is this a bug? Has anyone else encountered this while bombing the city that has the Great Wall in it? I'm 99.9% sure that I cleaned up all the beta patches, etc. before installing conquests, and I'm not playing a mod or anything. Screenshots and savegames to follow. I'd be interested to see if others can reproduce this (both from the savegames and from their own games)

Attachment: buildingsdestroyedfirst1.jpg
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	14-11-2003 06:15									#166
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screenshot #2

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	14-11-2003 06:17									#167
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screenshot #3

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	14-11-2003 06:18									#168
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First savegame (From 70BC...just bomb London with the 2 catapults)

Attachment: bomblondonimprovementdestroyed.sav
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	14-11-2003 06:23									#169
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I see, I dislike that. I want to see all my units, I don't care how I got it.

I agree. They could AT LEAST improve the captured units display so you see (a lot) more than 3 at a time! OTOH, perhaps there are other differences we are not aware of yet.

	14-11-2003 06:26									#170
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Savegame #2, 10 BC (Just bomb London and you should destroy the Great Wall)

Attachment: bomblondongreatwalldestroyed.sav
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	14-11-2003 08:12									#171
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Ok, so I rush online to report the weirdest thing I've seen yet, and what happens? RobC beat me too it.

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	14-11-2003 08:13									#172
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Fire Two!!

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	14-11-2003 08:14									#173
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And the clincher, ladies and gents, is that Thebes is home to the Great Wall. I was fortunate enough to capture it, instead of destroy it.

-Arrian

	14-11-2003 08:16									#174
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Oh, and one more bug(?) is that as you can see, Thebes does not show walls. All other Egyptian cities do, but not Thebes. When I captured it, however, they showed up.

All this, for Dyes.

-Arrian

	14-11-2003 09:01									#175
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Makes sense. The capital always shows as if it's one size larger, and there's no graphics for a walled city (as opposed to a town).

I think the bug comes because walls are supposed to get targetted before other city improvements, but with the Great Wall now providing free walls, somehow another improvement gets destroyed instead.

	14-11-2003 10:53									#176
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It is probably worth a mention in the civilopedia entry for marshes that you cannot found cities on a marshland tile

Catt

	14-11-2003 11:17									#177
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Ok, I did some more testing and have figured out the problem (sort of). If the civilization that you are at war with has not discovered steam power, railroads will not connect to their taken cities. If they have discovered it, no problems... Can someone test this with one of their current games and report back, plz. I would much appreciate some verification.

	14-11-2003 12:43									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Catt It is probably worth a mention in the civilopedia entry for marshes that you cannot found cities on a marshland tile Catt

That one had me scratching my head for a few minutes. I was wondering why the build city did not work, unil I noticed it was on a marsh.

	14-11-2003 12:45									#179
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quote: Originally posted by chuckdelicious Ok, I did some more testing and have figured out the problem (sort of). If the civilization that you are at war with has not discovered steam power, railroads will not connect to their taken cities. If they have discovered it, no problems... Can someone test this with one of their current games and report back, plz. I would much appreciate some verification.

I can only say that they behave normally with your own cities and captured ones that do have steam.

	14-11-2003 12:51									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian And the clincher, ladies and gents, is that Thebes is home to the Great Wall. I was fortunate enough to capture it, instead of destroy it.

...at least you got it intact! The reason I declared war on England in the first place is that they beat me to the Great Wall and I wanted to capture it...but once I started bombing it, it was palace destroyed, temple destroyed, colosseum destroyed, then "The The Great Wall of London has been destroyed"