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Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:35
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Court upholds HP firing of employee posting anti-gay material Increase Your PM Length

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...forantigaysigns

quote:

SUMMARY: A Hewlett-Packard employee fired for refusing to remove anti-gay biblical passages from his cubical cannot claim discrimination, a federal court ruled.

A Hewlett-Packard employee fired for refusing to remove anti-gay biblical passages from his cubical cannot claim discrimination, according to a 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) ruling in San Francisco on Tuesday.

The three-judge panel ruled that Hewlett-Packard acted within its legal bounds when it fired Richard D. Peterson in 2001 after Peterson refused to take down the passages, which the court said were intended to "demean" or "degrade" fellow employees.

Peterson, 55, had worked at a Hewlett-Packard office in Boise, Idaho, for 21 years when the company instituted a diversity campaign that included a poster calling for tolerance of gay employees. Peterson objected to the poster on religious grounds and, in response, hung biblical passages condemning homosexuality on the overhead bin above his cubicle.

A self-described devout Christian who said it was his duty "to expose evil when confronted with it," Peterson deliberately hung the verses where employees and customers would see them, the Associated Press reported.

Among the passages he posted was one from Leviticus, stating, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

When supervisors asked Peterson to remove the passages on the grounds they could offend other employees, he refused, saying he would remove them only if the gay-tolerance posters were taken down. Company officials refused.

Peterson told his supervisors as long as Hewlett-Packard included homosexuality in its campaign for diversity, he would challenge it. He was then given time off with pay to reconsider his stance. Upon returning to work, he reposted the verses, and was fired for insubordination. Peterson subsequently filed a $1 million suit against the company.

"It is evident that he was discharged, not because of his religious beliefs, but because he violated the company's harassment policy by attempting to generate a hostile and intolerant work environment and that he was insubordinate" for not complying with supervisors' requests, wrote Judge Stephen Reinhardt.

"Hewlett-Packard's efforts to eradicate discrimination against homosexuals in its workplace were entirely consistent with the goals and objectives of our civil rights statutes generally," Reinhardt wrote.

The court emphasized that although Hewlett-Packard objected to the posting of the biblical verses, it did not challenge Peterson's religious beliefs, and did not object to a homophobic letter Peterson published in the local paper about the company's diversity campaign or to the "Sodomy Is Not a Family Value" bumper sticker on his car.

Peterson's lawyer, Christ Troupis, plans to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites).


to HP. Guess this guy should be more careful when he works in an at-will state, eh?

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:38
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Inflate your Upload Space

So if I troll you from work, I could get fired?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:41
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Do you work for HP?

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

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Sep 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:43
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Who the hell does this guy think he is? He's posting HIS bullshit on HEWLETT PACKARDS wall. He can shove it, unless that means I can post **** all over his walls.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:45
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If he was offending co-workers, firing him (after enough warnings) was the right thing to do. However, if he hadn't offended employees, and thus hadn't degradated the team spirit, firing him would have been wrong, as it would have been a bad news for freedom of expression at work.

Even if this guy is an homophobe bible thumper (i.e. real scum), freedom of expression is supposed to apply to all in your country IUC.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Do you work for HP?
No. they are more PC. and more anal.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:46
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Freedom of expression doesn't apply in a private corporate workplace. You do what the bosses tell you or you get canned, simple as that.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:47
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Does this mean I have to take down my playboy calander?

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

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Sep 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:47
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Only if your bosses say so

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:48
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Just noticed he hanged his verses where not only his colleagues, but also the customers could see them. This guy sure deserved to be fired, especially since he has been warned numerous times. What he did was utterly anti-professionalistic.

Mazarin is offline Mazarin
Prince
of Old Europe
Nov 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
If he was offending co-workers, firing him (after enough warnings) was the right thing to do. However, if he hadn't offended employees, and thus hadn't degradated the team spirit, firing him would have been wrong, as it would have been a bad news for freedom of expression at work.
Even if this guy is an homophobe bible thumper (i.e. real scum), freedom of expression is supposed to apply to all in your country IUC.


An additional problem is that customers could see that, too. He was harming the company's image.
edit:x-post

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 08:05
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The bottom line is that he was told to do something by his supervisors and he refused. In an at-will state, that means firing.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 08:12 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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The ******* deserved to be fired.

monkspider is offline monkspider
King
banned
Aug 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 08:49
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What a loser.

gamenaught is offline gamenaught
Settler

Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 09:28
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Meanwhile...


quote:
COURT SAYS GAY DAD MUST HIDE LIFESTYLE

Tennessee - A state appeals court says a gay father must keep his homosexuality in the closet when his son is around.

But the state Court of Appeals says it was wrong for a lower court to send Joseph Randolph Hogue to jail for simply telling the boy he was gay.

As part of a divorce hearing, Hogue was barred from -- quoting now -- "exposing the child to his gay lovers and, or his gay lifestyle."

Hogue claimed it was an illegal and overly broad restraining order.

The appeals court says it found nothing wrong with the lower court shielding the child from the gay influences.

But the court did agree with Hogue that the order didn't specifically ban the father from telling his son about his sexual orientation.

Associated Press




Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 09:34
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But... it's against the law.... the law OF GOD!!!!!

Who will protect our decent, white children from the perverts and sodomites!?!

Aaaaarrrrgghhhhh!!!!

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 09:46
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quote:
lower court to send Joseph Randolph Hogue to jail for simply telling the boy he was gay.

Am I wrong or are parts of your country dangerously close from Saudi Arabia?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 09:48 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
quote:
lower court to send Joseph Randolph Hogue to jail for simply telling the boy he was gay.

Am I wrong or are parts of your country dangerously close from Saudi Arabia?

Yeah, but that's the south. Everyone's kinda written them off.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

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Sep 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:01
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quote:
Am I wrong or are parts of your country dangerously close from Saudi Arabia?

Fortunately, I don't think any of this ****eduptheassbullshit happens in Arkansas. This kind of thing rears its ugly head in states that already had no contribution to life anyways, so are attempting to make a negative one.

(Shut up. Tell me what the hell Tennessee and the Carolinas have given us. Bad country singers and a bloody civil war : tongue : .)

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:06
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Suffering from ads?

I'm trying to get Ming to delete your uncle account. i still don't think that gays should be allowed to have DLs.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:07 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Arkansas hasn't given me anything useful. It should be eliminated.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:42
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9th circuit court again........

I wonder if a gay person posted stuff that was inflammatory against conservative Christians they would be fired?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:46 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I'd reckon if he posted something saying Christian conservatives "shall surely be put to death" and that they are an "abomination" in plain view of Christian conservatives and customers, he'd be fired as well after repeated stern, clear warnings.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I wonder if a gay person posted stuff that was inflammatory against conservative Christians they would be fired?

If he was working in a company that has a strict Conservative Christian communication policy, probably.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:53
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quote:
I wonder if a gay person posted stuff that was inflammatory against conservative Christians they would be fired?


Well if they were, then they wouldn't be protected by federal statutes. Title VII does not include sexual orientation as a prohibited discriminatory class.

But, then again, he'd be slammed for harrassment anyway.

Mordoch is offline Mordoch
Chieftain
Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:55 Visit Mordoch's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
9th circuit court again........

I wonder if a gay person posted stuff that was inflammatory against conservative Christians they would be fired?

Certainly in many locations, especially if in view of many of the business' Conservative Christian customers, absolutely. Most businesses would object to employees taking a extreme position on a contraversial political issue on the job. Besides causing conflict between employees, you certainly want to avoid situations where you piss off 20% of your customer base by taking too strong a stance on a political issue. When you get in the way of company profits by advancing an extreme political agenda on the job, you get fired.

Joseph is offline Joseph
Prince
Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by TCO
Does this mean I have to take down my playboy calander?
You and I know that those calander when away in the 80s. Even the guys who had the calander inside of their locker were made to take them down and take them home.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 11:12 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
9th circuit court again........

I wonder if a gay person posted stuff that was inflammatory against conservative Christians they would be fired?


I agree with Boris -- I don't feel one bit sorry for that homophobic maniac.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 11:23
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quote:

Freedom of expression doesn't apply in a private corporate workplace. You do what the bosses tell you or you get canned, simple as that.


Doesn't mean that it's right to fire him.

I agree that he should not have put this where customers would be able to see this, since this will impact the image of the company. For the same reason, I have to keep my delivery hat off if I take a break from work to go picket at a clinic.

What I have a problem are the boundaries of what constitutes a 'hostile work environment'. Suppose I worked with someone who was flamboyently gay, who belittled my beliefs as a Christian, and got quite a bit of pleasure in doing so. Would this also be considered a 'hostile work environment?'

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:33
  Old Post 09-01-2004 11:25 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
What I have a problem are the boundaries of what constitutes a 'hostile work environment'. Suppose I worked with someone who was flamboyently gay, who belittled my beliefs as a Christian, and got quite a bit of pleasure in doing so. Would this also be considered a 'hostile work environment?'

Yes, particularly if he says you will be "put to death" because of your beliefs and are an "abomination" because of your beliefs. Add on to the fact that this flamboyant gay person, under direct orders from his supervisor to stop, keeps it up -- how can that not be hostile?

Did you really have to ask that question?

 
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