30-01-2004 19:19									#61
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Note to the group at large and Bloody Monk in particular: I'm having fun here. I'm not upset. This stuff is thrust-and-parry, nothing more.)

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk So, too robust it would appear. Or too thin skinned.

Calling me thin-skinned is actually the closest you've come to upsetting me. Apparently my smilie usage needs work...

quote: You insist you are capable. Is not this the place to demonstrate that??

At my discretion. With 4 turnsets played the first day and limited personal time available, speed was of the essence. So I plunged onward, feeling free to be impulsive in this romp.

quote: Is RCC hectoring??

No. RCC objections to my my actions were duly noted and copped to. You seem to take the fact that I wasn't apologetic about it as some sort of betrayal of your erzatz philosophy of SXN. That is not RCC.

quote: Is it so unreasonable to expect that those who join in a group endeavor would give their best?? Does not the very concept of RCC spring from the foundational principal of getting the most from the least effort per turnset??

The actual RCC is no problem. I started succession gaming as a learning tool (with bonus socializing). The fact that I knew darned well the techniques I was flouting (and still did as I pleased) seems to be what offends you. Tant pis. C'est la vie.

quote: Is the near certainty of the distant outcome even remotely relevant??

With no goal other than "just win"? Well, yes. IMHO. And frankly, during my turns, MHO is the one that counts.

quote: Look, I'm all for you having your fun...

Despite all appearances...

	30-01-2004 19:26									#62
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Seeking comment from the gallery:

The incentive to 'play at speed' seems to be contrary to 'play at best' - does this matter? - or should we seek a compromise?

Stu

	30-01-2004 19:27									#63
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't think that Monk really cares about this either to be honest.

Hopefully he'll come back with a riposte to match the quality of the duel so far.

So SG, fancy a tenner on the rabbit?

	30-01-2004 19:29									#64
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Neah - he doth protest tooo much - my tenners on The Monk (after all he does represent my favourite government )

	30-01-2004 23:01									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Seeking comment from the gallery: The incentive to 'play at speed' seems to be contrary to 'play at best' - does this matter? - or should we seek a compromise? Stu

When you have folk thumbing their nose at the very idea of being "constrained" by playing at their best and who also boast about how satisfied with themselves they are about flouting that constraint, then why bother.

I mean, really Stu, why bother??

Just have fun. Whoopeeeee!!!

I can see it now..."I thought it would be a gas and loads of fun to delete all the units and sell off all the white goods. This will give the next player much gold, and besides, I was just having fun; and don't you dare say that I did that because I couldn't think of anything better to do. I know how to play well, I tell you; I just didn't care to this turn. And how dare you tell me I can't have fun."

Why bother.

Monk

	30-01-2004 23:02									#66
	Inflate your Upload Space

-Jrabbit,

Sorry you got your nose so far out of joint. I shouldn't have said you were thinskinned; beside you, thinskinned folk have armor plate for skin.

(Hope I'm using smilies correctly; wouldn't want you to get the wrong idea.)

RCC is a traditional part of SXN games. The idea has always been for everyone to improve their gameplay. Even experts.

Not that you will care but here is an example of another way to deal with RCC from another game.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...714#post2678714

A very adult response, don't you think??

Monk

	30-01-2004 23:30									#67
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As you yourself said...

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk As I understand the first post, this is like a free for all. First to finish and post, self selects themselves as "next" in line. Play but play quickly.

As far as dealing with RCC, I think I'll stand on the breadth of my responses on this forum over time.

Regarding group effort, I'll similarly stand on my record.

Within this game, it appears we shall disagree. Since I seem to be cast in the role of miscreant and you in that of supreme arbiter, pronounce as thou wilt, O Bloody One.

Just try to remember: It's a game.

	30-01-2004 23:36									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Seeking comment from the gallery: The incentive to 'play at speed' seems to be contrary to 'play at best' - does this matter? - or should we seek a compromise?

A worthy experiment, IMHO. A lot of SXN games seem to bog down with missing players or week-long turns. Perhaps a "call the ball" mechanism, good only for 2-4 hours? Don't give up on the "speed" side, though. Nothing improved my chess play like Speed Chess.

Can't let the MPers have all the fun...

	31-01-2004 09:10									#69
	Put an end to popups!

Playing now...

	31-01-2004 11:03									#70
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Free-for-all SXN, 12 turns

380 Open game, examine our position after the Lagomorphic joyride: 15 cities, 30-70-0, researching Univ (19 turns...), 23 techs (which means we are on tech # 18); Germans have Seafaring; Sioux and Carts have Poly;
Our cities have food issues, which in many cases could be eased by Harbors. We could build Copes somewhere (4 monks has good food and 4 specials, and Central city has HG and lots of ocean. I guess we are going for Mono and Mike's, but you wouldn't know it by our haphazard civ. Some caravans are soon to be delivered to Celtic demanders. Reaching the Persians is long in our future, but there looks like a good canal site to the southeast of Flash. The only characteristic I can see of our civ is a decided predilection for canals.

We need a soul! A goal for our people! A shining slogan!

In 12 turns, we decide on Develop the Homeland!

Plan: Abandon war (for the nonce) bulld KRC, Cope's, libraries, Harbors, MP, Temples in core cities. Courthouse in 4 monks. Persian Canal with City Walls. Try to build 8 caravans for Mike's for my successor.

An ambitious program indeed, but here goes.

Spent lots of money. Germans: give Rep, Monarchy for Seafaring. Tribute: 150g. Carts and Sioux refuse talk. Celts: give Republic, Construction so they can grow for us.
Press Enter

400 4 monks Silk to Tintagel (d, 42) Central City builds Library
420 Hill fort Copper to Caernifon (d, 28g) Central city builds Harbor.
440* Persians almost done with Oracle. Babs almost done with GL. Time to gift them.
Central City completes KRC. Horse kills Sioux archer=>vet
460 zzz
480 build white goods

500 zzz
520* Bribe Sioux vet legion. Babs: 200g. Carts: rep, const for Poly, peace.
540 Sioux will complete Great Wall. Persian Canal finally founded.
560 Sioux build Great Wall. Sioux: Peace.
580 Univ=>Mono Barking Mad beads to Caernifon (d, 76)
600 * defensive position established against Sioux, our new friends.
620 Carts start Cope's. Hmm- we are hard by the 8 caravans for Mikes, but Mono is 14 turns away. Maybe Cope's first... after a University in Central City
640 Largest - That's Us. Persians #2, Carts, Celts, Sioux, Babs.

That's all. I hope the .zip save works.

Attachment: sp_a640.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	31-01-2004 11:05									#71
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

OK, I look forward to RCC. This is the part of the game where I tend to bog down completely, and this was no exception. I got a wonder and can complete another next turn. Peace with most civs, and the canal city to the Persians with the beginnings of a shipchain. Mono is coming, and then Mikes, and then Revolution to Republic and WLTC days. I built a number of harbors which seem unnecessary at present, and there are still some outposts with food problems. I unfortunately needed to sell the barracks in MonkWine to bribe the Sioux at an important moment in case anybody wonders.

	31-01-2004 15:31									#72
	Got spare money?

I'm intrigued with your thinking vis a vis KRC - personally I have built it once in the last four ot five years (a four rivered pheasant site - pretty) but generaly consider it a complete waste of time - enlighten me...

	31-01-2004 15:37									#73
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Twelve turns

-4) SG[1]
-3) -Jrabbit
-2) Old n Slow
-1) Grigor

	31-01-2004 16:51									#74
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

is this open to any to play or is it just for the better players. if it opne to any i would like a turn, but if you olny after the same old "best" players ill sit back andf lurk as usual ...

	31-01-2004 17:44									#75
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As to KRC, I can't recall the last time I used it either. It is actually hard to reconstruct what came over me.

My thought process involved wanting to get to 10-shields/turn in monarchy and perhaps 20/turn in republic for faster caravan and infrastructure purposes. I also thought to rehome a bunch of triremes to central city once Shakes was built to keep the shipchain possible in the early stages of representative govs. I was astonished at the lack of infrastructure and was running out of cash after 2 turns, as were the AI civs who gave us most of what they had. Our science rate was so slow relative to our civ size that it looked like Cope's would have been a drop in the bucket. So I chose (panicked) to build KRC first. In retrospect, getting to Mono (hence Mikes, hence Republic) even one turn earlier was more important and Cope's should have come first.

I hoped we would look better after 12 turns than we do. So I think there were other stategic mistakes as well.

	31-01-2004 17:48									#76
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Rasputin - Please jump in! This is my first succession game after years of lurking, and I built KRC in defiance of many deeply held principles of the institute, so there should be no reason for you to feel intimidated.

	31-01-2004 18:38									#77
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yes, but i think i need a lesson on some of the TLAs

I understand KRC ( in diiference to KFC) KIng richards ..

But what is RCC ????

	31-01-2004 21:29									#78
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RCC: Rabid Constructive Criticism - a deeply ironic term meant to provide moral justification for allowing non-involved participants and lurkers to dance wild jigs upon the perceived transgressions of turnset-players with hobnailed boots.

[edited for spelling]

	31-01-2004 21:56									#79
	Inflate your Upload Space

Or ROBUST Constructive Criticism...

a term of art, now a tradition, conceived by the SG's to introduce a discussion about a player's choices during a turnset, said disussion being for the purpose of furthering the general level of understanding and ability, not only of said player but of everyone else reading the thread. Emphasis is on the central (no accident) term, Constructive. It is not meant to be a troll and all offerings SHOULD be construed as good natured by one and all. Part of the tradition is self-sentencing oneself to The Sticky Mouse Institute for a term of remedial training after doing something silly.

Monk

	31-01-2004 22:27									#80
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Speaking of which, The Institute has yet to be founded on this world...

	31-01-2004 23:09									#81
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hmmm, dont make any sense to me ,,,,,

	31-01-2004 23:17									#82
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Me either sometimes.

I have the ball. Will post soonest.

Monk

	01-02-2004 03:27									#83
	Put an end to popups!

Looking over the save, Cope's is prepared for quick completion. Make a few changes, ie, change city walls to temple at Persian Canal. Shift to dip at Flash. Apart from the heated words of the Military Advisor, I will not build city walls. I'd rather let April C take care of things. Make a few more settlers for work projects at Barking Mad, MonkWine, and Central City. The capital is still only size 4.

680...Cope's completed

700 & 720...bribe Barb Legions near Persian Canal

740...Harbor for 4Monks. It's food surpluses make for a nice settler factory.

760...50g Hut 1mm pop

780...FortSue founded

800...Nomad Hut

820...Persian Canal and Barking Mad build Temples; Mono -> Medicine for the ST

840...War again with the Suefolk; they lose several units over the next few turns

860...CH for Barking Mad; 50g & NON Crook from Huts; Mike's Chapel

880...Medicine, Sanitation from Huts ->Navigation for Magellan; Sweetwater founded

	01-02-2004 03:42									#84
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Central City is size 7 and celebraring with 10$ Lux. A fortress will be ready soon at the Sue chokepoint. They have the Great Wall for now anyway, so I didn't push far into their zone. Boats are out and about exploring. Barking Mad is building a Market which will be swell when the next citizen appears, especially with the grape mine.

Several ways to go from here; good luck.

Monk

Attachment: sp_a900.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	01-02-2004 03:49									#85
	Remove this text

I couldn't think of a good place to found the Institute. It usually goes on an out of the way island. Unless Raz or someone else joins in, Stu is next. With only five playing the four man cue might best be dropped to three.

Monk

	01-02-2004 06:37									#86
	Got spare money?

ok i grabbed the ball and am runnung with it ....

hope this ok, not sure what is expected..

	01-02-2004 07:08									#87
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Excellent. Glad you could join us. A few more would be good, too.

Monk

	01-02-2004 07:27									#88
	Rasputins log Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

12 turns

Didnt look aroudn decided to jump right in, except looking at the Foriegn advisor screen and took note woh we at war with.

920 AD
2Whales Settlers built
CanalZone Gems Caravan
The Non-Settler ordered to return to work program in kingsom isntead of roaming the world.
Diplo in osuth exploring still

Settlers completing roads everywhere

Attacked some Sioux near our fort

940AD
West Canal Settlers - Market place
Diplo finds hut and discovers Feudelism

960AD
Monksilk Cloth Caravan
Monkwine Coal

980AD
Iriswest Copper
HillfortCoal - Marketplace
Santaanita Beads
Central City oooops stuff up / Food caravan - Now switching to Shakespears

1000AD
East Canal - Crusader (vet)

1020AD
[b]Flash Beads

1040ad
Sioux kill our brigade of Elephants.

1060AD
Fort Sue Settlers - ???
Discover Navigation and choose Invention. Figure we at war so why not.
Sweetwater Pike - Settler

1080AD
Persian CanalSettler - ???
NorthZoom Harbor - Marketplace
4Monks Cloth - Aquaduct

1100AD
2Whale Settlers - Market place
CanalZone Coal
Monkwine Cloth - Markewtplace
Lost a Crusader in Battle

1120AD
Costa del sol Beads
Monksilk Clothe
Lost a horse in battle

1140AD
Built Raz's Holiday Home in memeorial to the short reign of terror that was my turn.

I palce most of the Caravns outside central City ready to rush build a wonder.
Spent some time exploring with diplos and triremes.
Had a continuing war with Sioux , should have stayed home I think behind that Fort !!!!

	01-02-2004 07:41									#89
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That was quick!! Sounds good from the log, except the bits about the units dying in Indian Country.

Don't forget to attach the save.

Monk

	01-02-2004 08:27									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk That was quick!! Sounds good from the log, except the bits about the units dying in Indian Country. Don't forget to attach the save. Monk

Yeah the units were a bit of a pain to lose. was sort of exploring the gap betwen us to see what was what and met some of his elephants.... took a lot of his units too though....