01-02-2004 07:37									#1
	Germans gone Wild! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I thought this would provoke some comment:

FRANKFURT, Jan. 30 — A German computer technician who killed and ate a willing victim he found through the Internet was convicted of manslaughter on Friday, in a ruling that reflected the legal ambiguities of a case that has, by turns, fascinated and repulsed people here.

A court in Kassel, about 90 miles north of here, sentenced the man, Armin Meiwes, to eight-and-a-half years in prison for killing Bernd-Jürgen Brandes, who responded to an Internet posting by Mr. Meiwes seeking someone willing to be "slaughtered." The three-judge court rejected the prosecution's plea for a murder conviction and a life sentence.

"Both were looking for the ultimate kick," said the chief judge, Volker Mütze, after reading the verdict. "This was an act between two extremely disturbed people who both wanted something from each other."

The conviction on a lesser charge means that Mr. Meiwes could be released in less than five years.

Harald Ermel, a lawyer for Mr. Meiwes, said he would appeal the verdict. Mr. Ermel had argued that his client was only guilty of "killing on request," an illegal form of euthanasia that carries a maximum jail term of five years.

"He's a model prisoner," Mr. Ermel told reporters at the courthouse. "He will voluntarily undergo psychiatric therapy to get away from his fetish for men's flesh. I'm sure he won't do anything like this again."

That is not likely to calm the nerves of people in Rotenburg an der Fulda, the secluded village south of Kassel where Mr. Meiwes, 42, lived in a rambling half-timbered house. He played host there to four other men who responded to his Web posting, before finding the 43-year-old Mr. Brandes in March 2001.

What followed was an evening of sexual role-playing and violence, much of it videotaped by Mr. Meiwes. In the end, he stabbed Mr. Brandes to death with a kitchen knife, hung the corpse on a meat hook, and carved it up, storing pieces of flesh in plastic bags in his freezer.

"With every piece of flesh I ate, I remembered him," Mr. Meiwes said during his trial. "It was like taking communion."

It was hard to reconcile the placid, well-dressed defendant in the courtroom with the grisly testimony. Yet it was the legal dilemma, as much as the lurid details of the case, that consumed the court. Convicting Mr. Meiwes of murder would have been difficult, according to legal experts, because the victim consented, even pleaded, to be killed. But confining Mr. Meiwes to a psychiatric hospital would also have presented problems because a court-appointed psychiatrist testified that he was not suffering from "diminished responsibility" at the time of the killing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/31/i.../31GERM.html?th

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	01-02-2004 07:38									#2
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i remember reading about this case when it first came out. if they both agreed to it, i don't see why it's a problem.

poor bastard.

	01-02-2004 07:50									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX i remember reading about this case when it first came out. if they both agreed to it, i don't see why it's a problem. poor bastard.

Hello!! Humans should not be a food source!!

	01-02-2004 08:00									#4
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yes they should, munch munch

	01-02-2004 08:01									#5
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Pass the Bier Ecth

	01-02-2004 08:16									#7
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If I walked up to you and yelled "KILL ME DAMNIT! ****ING KILL ME!" would that make killing me any less of a crime?

	01-02-2004 08:16									#8
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell If I walked up to you and yelled "KILL ME DAMNIT! ****ING KILL ME!" would that make killing me any less of a crime?

It would in Germany.

	01-02-2004 08:21									#9
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I can't think of a thing to say. I mean, christ, the victim asked to be eaten... Do you punish the perpetrator on the basis that it's a bad example for the rest of society? Yikes.

	01-02-2004 08:44									#10
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Soylent Green is people! PEOPLE!!!

jon.

	01-02-2004 09:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I can't think of a thing to say. I mean, christ, the victim asked to be eaten... Do you punish the perpetrator on the basis that it's a bad example for the rest of society? Yikes.

I argued this with Floyd when the story first broke.

There is a good reason to assume that anyone who would consent to being killed and eaten in this manner out of some sort of sexual fetish is, in fact, mentally insane and therefore unable to legally give such consent. The sentence therefore reflects the fact that a person should reasonably know that no sane person would consent to such a thing and therefore the defendant shouldn't have done it.

	01-02-2004 12:03									#12
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did he ever say what fried penis tastes like?

	01-02-2004 12:06									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I argued this with Floyd when the story first broke. There is a good reason to assume that anyone who would consent to being killed and eaten in this manner out of some sort of sexual fetish is, in fact, mentally insane and therefore unable to legally give such consent. The sentence therefore reflects the fact that a person should reasonably know that no sane person would consent to such a thing and therefore the defendant shouldn't have done it.

	01-02-2004 12:07									#14
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damn you Diss

	01-02-2004 12:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident did he ever say what fried penis tastes like?

mmm-mmm

	01-02-2004 14:17									#16
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Now the ironic thing is that this guy tests out as sane. Good god what does that say for the rest of us. If hes sane and where sane ........

	01-02-2004 17:29									#17
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Ned. Can you please make a thread where you present your philosophical basis for being a vicious anti-european.

	01-02-2004 17:34									#18
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Tripledoc

Diss, there's an official statement about that, believe it or not

They say after they cut it off they tried to eat it together, but it was too tough to chew

	01-02-2004 17:49									#19
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The guy who wanted to be eaten is obviously mentally sick. It shouldn't be less of a crime if someone then proceeds eating this guy, because he is sick and what he wants is not sane, and justice should protect the sane and the insane. But then again, this cannibal dude is pretty sick too. He needs help.

	01-02-2004 19:04									#20
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Ned, did you post this because you are feeling hungry?

	01-02-2004 19:19									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I argued this with Floyd when the story first broke. There is a good reason to assume that anyone who would consent to being killed and eaten in this manner out of some sort of sexual fetish is, in fact, mentally insane and therefore unable to legally give such consent. The sentence therefore reflects the fact that a person should reasonably know that no sane person would consent to such a thing and therefore the defendant shouldn't have done it.

And the person who ate him must also be mentally insane, so he can't be held responsible for his actions. Where's that leave us?

	01-02-2004 19:19									#22
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I think wanting to be eaten and eating someone is perfectly normal. Who are we to judge two adults, who obviously have agreed.

	01-02-2004 19:23									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld And the person who ate him must also be mentally insane, so he can't be held responsible for his actions. Where's that leave us?

Not necessarily. The standard for being deemed not guilty by reason of insanity is that one must not have been able to know that one's actions were wrong. While eating another person out of a kink certainly pushes the limit of sanity, there's nothing remotely indicating that the perpetrator didn't know it was criminal.

	01-02-2004 20:30									#24
	Re: Germans gone Wild! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is just not a title I ever want to see.

	01-02-2004 21:08									#25
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o-tone Ned: "A German has no right to call a Jew a facist."

And that's no matter if he is one or not...

	01-02-2004 21:16									#26
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American cattle producers should pay attention to this... ITS WRONG TO FOR A SPECIES TO EAT ITS DEAD!

	01-02-2004 21:26									#27
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Well let's say the both men are sane. It's still not any factor if he asked for it or not IMO. Why? Because it's illegal, plus if anything, then the guy who was eaten is guilty of.. how do you say it.. when you ask someone to do a crime.. that one. But it wouldn't take the blame from the cannibal guy at all, and not deserving anything less of a punishment even if he ate the man against his will.

If someone asks me to shoot him in the head, he might want me to do it, but if I do it, I'm as guilty as I can be for killing this person, and it don't matter he asked me to.

	02-02-2004 04:19									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Ned. Can you please make a thread where you present your philosophical basis for being a vicious anti-european.

Think Schroeder.

Think Chirac.

Think how the Euros hate Jews and Israel.

	02-02-2004 04:21									#29
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I heard PETA sent the guy a vegan starter kit, by the way.

	02-02-2004 04:29									#30
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What amazes me is how someone would actually want to be slaughtered...that indicates a self-destructive tendency and therefore the person isn't compus menti. Therefore the gentleman who I shall refer to as 'the feasted upon' ( ) was not capable of making this decision and therefore it would be murder. Who would want to be butchered like that?!