24-03-2004 16:51									#331
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Hmm, dodgy stuff – given what happened to the Welsh guards down there (remember the landing ship that was bombed?).

I also remember the Argie ship that was sunk. And the headline in that rag of a newspaper.

quote: For the lads maybe – not for me. I have no illusions what it means. It simply means the West Indies no longer have a bowling attack nor any batsmen in form.

Oh well, the Sri Lankans have busily butterfingered their way out of the third Test. Lehmann dropped on 10, going on to a ton. How many chances does their first slipper have to botch before they shift him?

quote: They won’t win it there (it was sorted out for the Wales game surprisingly enough).

As was pointed out earlier, the Welsh lineout doesn't rate alongside the Irish. Or the French, for that matter. Ruggertubby, under pressure, will blow it again.

quote: France are red hot favourites – but with a history of blowing the big games. Remember the most impressive sides going into the RWC semi finals? Neither appeared in the final.

Tamerlin, kicked in the nuts, howls in agony. LDiCesares, kicked in the nuts, reckons it tickled compared to how he felt after his last match.

	24-03-2004 18:13									#332
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quote: I also remember the Argie ship that was sunk. And the headline in that rag of a newspaper.

Not defending that. Inside the exclusion zone would have been different in terms of the sinking. The Sun? Jingoistic trash all the way.

quote: How many chances does their first slipper have to botch before they shift him?

At least one more?

quote: As was pointed out earlier, the Welsh lineout doesn't rate alongside the Irish. Or the French, for that matter. Ruggertubby, under pressure, will blow it again.

Most effective lineout in the tournament (according to BBC summariser last weekend)? Scotland. Speaks volumes for the rest of their game doesn’t it?

Ireland’s line out was appalling against Italy – the wind was a factor sure but the absence of the youngster Paul O’Connell was probably the main cause – the boy is a future Lions captain in the making.

Ireland’s opening try against Italy has to be seen. Defensive Italian line out on the 5M line – Italian hooker preparing to throw but no one on his side looking at him at all – Malcolm O’Kelly seemingly nods at the hooker who then immediately throws the ball to him and O’Kelly then runs through the still away-with-the-fairies Italians to score. It’s highly enjoyable viewing – I would love to know what the Eyetie hooker was thinking!

And yes if Thompson is pressured he will fall apart – just like Michelak the model does.

quote: Tamerlin, kicked in the nuts, howls in agony. LDiCesares, kicked in the nuts, reckons it tickled compared to how he felt after his last match.

Havak, recycling his most effective playing skill, keeps the low blows coming.

Paris here I come...

	24-03-2004 19:15									#333
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Ho hum.

quote: Ireland’s line out was appalling against Italy – the wind was a factor sure.

Dear Mr Havak,

It has come to our attention that your television has been accidentally rotated through about 85 degrees to the left. This along with the level of throwing that you come to expect from the English hooker may have caused you believe that there was merely a light breeze blowing in the recent Ireland- Italy game.
We would like to assure you that if you were to rotate your television back to the correct position that the touchflags lying parallel to the in goal area are a more correct indication of the wind strength.
Yours thankfully

The Televisual Enjoyment Society.

quote: Ireland’s opening try against Italy has to be seen. Defensive Italian line out on the 5M line – Italian hooker preparing to throw but no one on his side looking at him at all – Malcolm O’Kelly seemingly nods at the hooker who then immediately throws the ball to him and O’Kelly then runs through the still away-with-the-fairies Italians to score.

A truly beautiful eye for the try scoring pass that boy.

quote: Paris here I come...

Have a nice time.

	24-03-2004 19:20									#334
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Trust me.

Yes the wind was a huge problem for the Irish - I'll admit that. I still think their forward power in the tight game they then had to play should have got a bigger margin?

It's looking like Shane Byrne versus Thommo for Lions Hooker next year - with the Leinster lad the favourite right now I guess?

	24-03-2004 19:36									#335
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Accidentally? You accidentally typed "Plastic Surgery For Fun and Profit The Argentinian Way" into Google?

Actually I was searching for "eye guage".

quote: I think the owner of the fingers is just remembering the Falklands, don't you?

Sore loser eh?

	24-03-2004 20:04									#336
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Practicing:

"Six Grand Pression svp".

	25-03-2004 01:41									#337
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Practicing: "Six Grandes Pressions svp".

Just ask: Six "Magnifiques", je vous prie.

You could be surprised by the size of the drinks (if the bar keeper is educated enough and knows what a Magnifique is of course... You will be in Paris after all).

	25-03-2004 04:50									#338
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Most effective lineout in the tournament (according to BBC summariser last weekend)? Scotland. Speaks volumes for the rest of their game doesn’t it?

Does a bit. Their lineout was the strongest part of their game in the WRC. With most teams, a strong lineout is a platform for other good things. Not so the Haggis Eaters. Strange.

quote: Ireland’s opening try against Italy has to be seen. Defensive Italian line out on the 5M line – Italian hooker preparing to throw but no one on his side looking at him at all – Malcolm O’Kelly seemingly nods at the hooker who then immediately throws the ball to him and O’Kelly then runs through the still away-with-the-fairies Italians to score. It’s highly enjoyable viewing – I would love to know what the Eyetie hooker was thinking!

The Eyetie hooker threw to the Irishman? God bless the Eyeties. I love 'em.

quote: Havak, recycling his most effective playing skill, keeps the low blows coming.

"Squirrel Grip" Havak?

quote: Paris here I come...

The Parisian Riot Squad, with memories of 1968, head for the hills.

	25-03-2004 04:54									#339
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It's looking like Shane Byrne versus Thommo for Lions Hooker next year - with the Leinster lad the favourite right now I guess?

Hopefully not. I'd much prefer to see ruggertubby bungling it, thanks.

	26-03-2004 02:08									#340
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I have just read a serie of four interesting articles in the Midi Olympique about the way to win against England, a few French coaches have given their opinion about the tactics that should be used in order to do so.

Most of them are saying that dynamic mauls and penetrations in the deep axis (this one is rather difficult to translate) could unbalance the English team as Grayson is lacking some defensive skills and because the French are supposed to be better at collective phases.

Kicks and lineouts are believed to be two important keys as the firsts would allow to play behind Tindall's back (provided the kicks are well executed and far from Robinson) while the seconds would take advantage of Thomson's "relative" lack of experience at the international level. Laurent Seigne is adding that the French lineouts should be reduced in order to use our forwards in attack.

	26-03-2004 03:45									#341
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I have just read a serie of four interesting articles in the Midi Olympique about the way to win against England, a few French coaches have given their opinion about the tactics that should be used in order to do so.

The Midi Olympique? The august journal that you cited as claiming that Australia wanted to change the laws to stop contested scrums?

quote: Most of them are saying that dynamic mauls and penetrations in the deep axis (this one is rather difficult to translate) could unbalance the English team as Grayson is lacking some defensive skills and because the French are supposed to be better at collective phases.

I'd've thought that dynamic mauls would unbalance any oppo. Could you have a go at translating "deep axis"?

quote: Kicks and lineouts are believed to be two important keys as the firsts would allow to play behind Tindall's back (provided the kicks are well executed and far from Robinson) while the seconds would take advantage of Thomson's "relative" lack of experience at the international level. Laurent Seigne is adding that the French lineouts should be reduced in order to use our forwards in attack.

Sounds to me like: (1) put the ball behind England and chase like buggery; and (2) put pressure on ruggertubby's throws. Sounds fair enough to me.

Oh, and Havak should just about have arrived on French soil. Did you remember to buy shares in every French brewery?

	26-03-2004 04:00									#342
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The Midi Olympique? The august journal that you cited as claiming that Australia wanted to change the laws to stop contested scrums?

This only proves that this journal is honestly reporting any information related to Rugby.

quote: I'd've thought that dynamic mauls would unbalance any oppo.

I just wonder why England did not used them to unbalance the Welsh defense when their forwards were largely dominating their opponents... especially in the second half.

quote: Could you have a go at translating "deep axis"?

Though LDiCesare would certainly be better at explaining it I think that this refers to the attacks launched around the rucks and scrums in order to penetrate the defense while the forwards are still locked in the said rucks and mauls.

quote: Oh, and Havak should just about have arrived on French soil. Did you remember to buy shares in every French brewery?

I should have...


My step father told me a few hours ago that he received five tickets for the France vs. England game. Though I would have not made the trip alone I am sure I would have found four friends to go to Paris with me if I had been warned earlier.

[EDIT] [/EDIT]

	26-03-2004 04:09									#343
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Sounds to me like: (1) put the ball behind England and chase like buggery; and (2) put pressure on ruggertubby's throws. Sounds fair enough to me.

Worked for us.

	26-03-2004 04:18									#344
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Most of them are saying that dynamic mauls and penetrations in the deep axis (this one is rather difficult to translate) could unbalance the English team as Grayson is lacking some defensive skills and because the French are supposed to be better at collective phases.

I have a piece of bad news and a piece of good news.
Bad news- Grayson is not playing.
Good news- Olly is.
Straight swap as he's the goal kicker in the team.
Once Monsieur Betsen has tackled him, Catt comes in at FH and Dawson kicks.

	26-03-2004 05:47									#345
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin This only proves that this journal is honestly reporting any information related to Rugby.

Except you were never able to produce the evidence, remember?

quote: I just wonder why England did not used them to unbalance the Welsh defense when their forwards were largely dominating their opponents... especially in the second half.

Because the two-thirds of their team - he of the Lantern Jaw - who retired prior to the tournament is no longer in the team. They are now leaderless. Apart from missing his great skills.

quote: Though LDiCesare would certainly be better at explaining it I think that this refers to the attacks launched around the rucks and scrums in order to penetrate the defense while the forwards are still locked in the said rucks and mauls.

Fair enough. So the sum total of the article about how to beat England is: (1) attack around the rucks and mauls; (2) kick deep and chase like buggery; and (3) put pressure on ruggertubby's throws. Gee, the Midi Olympique's chockers with earth-shatteringly original thinkers, isn't it?

quote: My step father told me a few hours ago that he received five tickets for the France vs. England game. Though I would have not made the trip alone I am sure I would have found four friends to go to Paris with me if I had been warned earlier.

Go anyway!

	26-03-2004 05:51									#346
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quote: Originally posted by flipside Worked for us.

Yes, but the difference is, unfortunately, that les grenouilles are proven chokers.

	26-03-2004 06:27									#347
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Fair enough. So the sum total of the article about how to beat England is: (1) attack around the rucks and mauls; (2) kick deep and chase like buggery; and (3) put pressure on ruggertubby's throws. Gee, the Midi Olympique's chockers with earth-shatteringly original thinkers, isn't it?

*flipside wonders how secret Irish documents have got into French hands?*
Personally, I think that while the obvious (1) and (3) will be used, France would be far better off looking at how the Welsh created space against the English.
To me the Welsh, while always going to lose because of the forwards, showed how to attack the English backs by drawing in fringe tacklers at the breakdown, exploiting Ollie and then fast miss passes to get around the backs that had been drawn inside.

	26-03-2004 06:36									#348
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yes, but the difference is, unfortunately, that les grenouilles are proven chokers.

The problem is, like the Kiwi's they only do it at W.C's rather domestically.

* again, knowing that Tamerlin has another three and a half years of this, at least *

	26-03-2004 07:14									#349
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quote: Originally posted by flipside To me the Welsh, while always going to lose because of the forwards, showed how to attack the English backs by drawing in fringe tacklers at the breakdown, exploiting Ollie and then fast miss passes to get around the backs that had been drawn inside.

Yes, but there's an obvious counter to that tactic - commiting limited but sufficient numbers at the breakdown, leaving sufficient defenders elsewhere. So obvious that England obviously overlooked it.

	26-03-2004 07:16									#350
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quote: Originally posted by flipside The problem is, like the Kiwi's they only do it at W.C's rather domestically. * again, knowing that Tamerlin has another three and a half years of this, at least *

Yeah, but it's no fun, unfortunately. Tamerlin's the first to admit that they choke. In fact, these days, he goes into matches assuming it.

	26-03-2004 07:39									#351
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yes, but there's an obvious counter to that tactic - commiting limited but sufficient numbers at the breakdown, leaving sufficient defenders elsewhere. So obvious that England obviously overlooked it.

Oh, I agree.
It's very simple.
I think it's the way for France to go in this game though.
If they suck in the back row by phase play, then Olly does not set the line and is easily drawn out of position. What with Magne hanging around somewhere on the touchline there is bound to be an overlap.

I think that a pick and drive game for France on the back row and half backs of Engfland, would make the English defense narrow.
Ollie, despite him having a good game, was to blame for the Welsh tries in this way in the space of about 5 minutes.

	26-03-2004 07:51									#352
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yeah, but it's no fun, unfortunately. Tamerlin's the first to admit that they choke. In fact, these days, he goes into matches assuming it.

It's strange though, isn't it.
To me, France win about one grand slam out of every two competitions recently( or thereabouts 3/7 if I remember) and the chokers are always England, but lose at a W.C and it means more.
Maybe he should be wildly optimistic, yet deluded, like me who is convinced that England will beat France by 8 and we'll beat Scotland by 55ish with a try in the corner in injury time and a conversion to win the championship.

	26-03-2004 08:02									#353
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quote: Originally posted by flipside Oh, I agree. It's very simple. I think it's the way for France to go in this game though. If they suck in the back row by phase play, then Olly does not set the line and is easily drawn out of position. What with Magne hanging around somewhere on the touchline there is bound to be an overlap. I think that a pick and drive game for France on the back row and half backs of Engfland, would make the English defense narrow. Ollie, despite him having a good game, was to blame for the Welsh tries in this way in the space of about 5 minutes.

Well, the French have the talent to do it. Whether they have the discipline is another matter.

	26-03-2004 08:04									#354
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quote: Originally posted by flipside Maybe he should be wildly optimistic, yet deluded, like me who is convinced that England will beat France by 8 and we'll beat Scotland by 55ish with a try in the corner in injury time and a conversion to win the championship.

Tamerlin is, unfortunately, too much of a realist to be anything of the things you describe. Which I regret. Because it's near impossible to take the p*ss out of him in the way that it's so easy to take it out of Havak!

And as for your fantasy ...

	26-03-2004 08:27									#355
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Well, the French have the talent to do it. Whether they have the discipline is another matter.

Other than the back foot law, and God help me, as an Irishman that is up there with Satan himself to us , the French discipline has been good in this competition.
They have been patchy in their performance though, many handling and set piece errors.
I imagine they have looked good in the highlights, though.

	26-03-2004 08:32									#356
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Because it's near impossible to take the p*ss out of him in the way that it's so easy to take it out of Havak!

I will repeat this when he is back.

	26-03-2004 08:54									#357
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quote: Originally posted by finbar And as for your fantasy ...

Yeah, that's true.
We will probably only get within 30 points of their P.D and if it wasn't for the wind in the Italy game we would be a lot closer.
I am 99.99% sure we won't win, but this is one of only 5 triple crowns we have ever won.
Still.You are right.
There is no way we are gonna win the bugger.
I've enjoyed us being in the mix though.

	26-03-2004 13:09									#358
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Tamerlin is, unfortunately, too much of a realist to be anything of the things you describe. Which I regret. Because it's near impossible to take the p*ss out of him in the way that it's so easy to take it out of Havak!

True, France has the means to win but they have not shown much skill, especially the backs. The French team can boast that they certainly have the best defense but they should remember that while it is a good thing to prevent the opponent from scoring the goal of the game is still to score more points than the other team. I know that France can beat the English in Paris but if England play the way it has played in last twenty minutes against Wales... France will lose as our backs are unable to score.

	26-03-2004 15:21									#359
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quote: Originally posted by flipside Other than the back foot law, and God help me, as an Irishman that is up there with Satan himself to us , the French discipline has been good in this competition.

Their discipline in the World Cup was wonderful. As were their skills. Right up until when it counted.

	26-03-2004 15:23									#360
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quote: Originally posted by flipside I will repeat this when he is back.

Why? He already knows. His blind optimism - as cute as it is - leads him straight into my gun sights every time.