19-02-2004 09:25									#1
	$ Apple is Now Debt Free $ Got spare money?

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004...218102433.shtml

quote: Apple is Now Debt Free 99mac.se published an internal memo from Steve Jobs to Apple employees today. According to the Memo, Jobs states that "Today is a historic day of sorts for our company." Apple used $300 million in cash to pay off the rest of their debt, and is now a debt-free company. A big turnaround from over $1 billion in debt in mid-1997. Also noted in the memo is that Apple has $4.8 billion in the bank at this time.

This is good news. It means much higher profits for Apple now that they don't have to worry about paying down any debts.

	19-02-2004 09:30									#2
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Yes! Hooray for higher profits for Apple.

I hope they increase the price on the Macs and iPods a bit more still.

	19-02-2004 09:33									#3
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They've been in good shape for years now. This debt was just left over because it was cheaper to let it stand than pay it.

Still, this looks like being a pretty good year for Apple. Expect most of their line to use G5 processors by year's end.

	19-02-2004 09:34									#4
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Apple once again shows why it is smarter than it's competitors.

	19-02-2004 09:36									#5
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Apple once again shows why it is smarter than it's competitors.

How much debt does MS have?

	19-02-2004 09:39									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How much debt does MS have?

Speaking of which, I wonder how much this will increase the price of the Apple shares Bill Gate's owns?

	19-02-2004 09:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes! Hooray for higher profits for Apple. I hope they increase the price on the Macs and iPods a bit more still.

I don't see where you're coming from.

Prices have been coming way down on Macs in the past year or so. 8 months ago the high-end PowerMac dropped $1700 for example.

As for the iPods, they are well worth it. They give the consumers exactly what they need without a clumsy interface and a huge "rock" in your pocket or on your clip, which makes life that much LESS miserable. Da' he** with the extras!

And btw, if Apple went cold turkey right now and lowered prices down to what consumers demand they would lose money and would have no point in doing business. They will get there, but it will take some more time. You do business to make money, not lose money fool.

	19-02-2004 09:42									#8
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I'm wondering why people are still buying Apple.

With a good Linux install, there's no reason to go Apple. Unless you're using Final Cut Pro.

Nevertheless, I feel huge sympathy for their cause.

	19-02-2004 09:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How much debt does MS have?

And your point.

If you read the article CAREFULLY you would notice that Apple had a $1 billion debt back in 1997. That was around the time Steve Jobs joined the company. In seven years Steve has gotten Apple out of a $1 billion debt. Apple IS smarter than it's competitors.

	19-02-2004 09:46									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy And btw, if Apple went cold turkey right now and lowered prices down to what consumers demand they would lose money and would have no point in doing business. They will get there, but it will take some more time. You do business to make money, not lose money fool.

So you admit Apple can't run a cost-effective business, hence the huge prices? They sure as hell don't use very high quality components or have high quality control...

	19-02-2004 09:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy And your point.

The point was, he said Apple was smarter than its competitors...MS being a competitor, and having way way way more money than Apple will ever have.

So my point was this in no way shows Apple is smarter than its competitors, just slower.

If Jobs' main accomplishment was to get rid of $1B in debt over 7 years, how laughable is that when MS makes many times that every three months? How does that make them smarter than MS, if they had debt in the first place? If they're smarter than their competitors, how come their marketshare just drops?

	19-02-2004 09:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So you admit Apple can't run a cost-effective business, hence the huge prices? They sure as hell don't use very high quality components or have high quality control...

I never admitted anything. Steve Jobs is just fixing all the mistakes the company made before he took over the company in 1997. Since Jobs has come to the company Apple has very much improved, and this just a big step in Apple's progress.

	19-02-2004 09:56									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy I never admitted anything. Steve Jobs is just fixing all the mistakes the company made before he took over the company in 1997. Since Jobs has come to the company Apple has very much improved, and this just a big step in Apple's progress.

Since Jobs came to the company, Apple's marketshare has fallen.

Discuss.

	19-02-2004 09:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The point was, he said Apple was smarter than its competitors...MS being a competitor, and having way way way more money than Apple will ever have. So my point was this in no way shows Apple is smarter than its competitors, just slower. If Jobs' main accomplishment was to get rid of $1B in debt over 7 years, how laughable is that when MS makes many times that every three months? How does that make them smarter than MS, if they had debt in the first place? If they're smarter than their competitors, how come their marketshare just drops?

Apple is a much smaller company. Smaller companies have a much harder time bringing in as much profits as their larger competitors unless they can come up with some "killer" products. Apple already has some "killer" products in it's inventory (PowerMac G5, XServe G5, iPod, iTunes). More products like these will be introduced this year. For example, there already rumors that a newly redesigned iMac G5 is on the way.

	19-02-2004 09:57									#15
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Apple and MS were once of comparable size.

If Apple was the smarter company, things would be reversed.

	19-02-2004 09:59									#16
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How do you think small companies get big, btw?

Michael Dell started his company in his college dormroom. Why did his company get so big? Because it had good management. That is the real key to success in business.

	19-02-2004 09:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy How do you think small companies get big, btw? Michael Dell started his company in his college dormroom. Why did his company get so big? Because it had good management. That is the real key to success in business.

I agree, and this is why Apple has a small company.

Thanks for your help.

	19-02-2004 10:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Apple and MS were once of comparable size. If Apple was the smarter company, things would be reversed.

Apple shrunk and MS grew AFTER Steve Jobs left Apple.

	19-02-2004 10:00									#19
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Yep, and Microsoft was a small company which became one of the richest in the world, leaving Apple in its dust.

	19-02-2004 10:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Apple shrunk and MS grew AFTER Steve Jobs left Apple.

Even when Jobs was with Apple, MS grew far faster.

	19-02-2004 10:03									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I agree, and this is why Apple has a small company. Thanks for your help.

But Apple has much better management since Steve Jobs came to the company.

Despite falling marketshare, many folks including myself feel that Apple's glory days are in the near future, but these things don't happen overnight, you know. That's why Apple hasn't seen it glory days yet, well, seen it glory days again, that is.

	19-02-2004 10:05									#22
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Don't you guys ever get sick of arguing about this ****?

I don't even see what you're arguing about. The facts are really quite simple. Apple is the more innovative company and makes better products, but Microsoft rules the world because they have better business sense, selling second-rate products for lower prices. Not really that complicated...

	19-02-2004 10:06									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Even when Jobs was with Apple, MS grew far faster.

Link, please.

	19-02-2004 10:06									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Link, please.

Uh. Duh?

	19-02-2004 10:07									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Don't you guys ever get sick of arguing about this ****? I don't even see what you're arguing about. The facts are really quite simple. Apple is the more innovative company and makes better products, but Microsoft rules the world because they have better business sense, selling second-rate products for lower prices. Not really that complicated...

I have no idea how people think Apple is so innovative. MS has way more patents, MS actually innovates me.

Name something Apple "innovated" with in recent years.

Apple's only innovative in their marketing, and how they manage to sell second-rate products for insanely high prices.

	19-02-2004 10:08									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Don't you guys ever get sick of arguing about this ****? I don't even see what you're arguing about. The facts are really quite simple. Apple is the more innovative company and makes better products, but Microsoft rules the world because they have better business sense, selling second-rate products for lower prices. Not really that complicated...

Cool it dude. I hardly ever post here, so, you get the idea.

	19-02-2004 10:10									#27
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quote: The facts are really quite simple. Apple is the more innovative company and makes better products, but Microsoft rules the world because they have better business sense, selling second-rate products for lower prices.

'Dem ain't the facts. Microsoft is the more innovative company which, IMO, makes better products. Apple makes 'prettier' products - more style than substance, but if that makes you happy, go for it.

	19-02-2004 10:11									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I have no idea how people think Apple is so innovative. MS has way more patents, MS actually innovates me. Name something Apple "innovated" with in recent years.

Apple was the first to sell downloaded music to consumers through the Internet without subscription fees, so that makes the the first company to start a sensible music download service.

	19-02-2004 10:12									#29
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Oh god, here we go again. And I was about to remove the ignores from everybody .

	19-02-2004 10:12									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Uh. Duh?

Whatever.