01-03-2004 06:17									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I'll stick with SW episodes 4-6, with 1960s ST coming in second.

Woohoo!! We agree on something.

*PLATO waits for Boris to post 15 links demonstrating that we don't agree*

	01-03-2004 06:19									#32
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Nothing can beat Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Director's Edition, of course), Wrath of Kahn or The Undiscovered Country!

	01-03-2004 06:22									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc This revulsion towards the amusing Jar Jar Binks is something I never understood. What exactly is wrong with him? I mean basicly he is modelled on Goofy, the Disney character. I think also there is a little bit of xenophibia in there, since he speaks something which could vaguely be interpreted as Rastafarian. Also he likes bufoonery, and behaves in an anti-authoritain manner. This does not mix well with the marine barracks humour most well adapted and socialized people tend to identify themselves with. The latter is the kind of humour that takes Freuds conclusion that humour is subliminated sadistic impulses to its logical extreme. In short Jar Jar Binks is every Marine sergants nightmare. His total inablity to understand technical details of course also infuriates the modern consumer. So in a sense he is a bit anti-capitalistic. From a feminist point of view it is also easy to see why Jar Jar Binks would infuriate males, but I won't get into that.

People who are into scifi are familiar with the concept of Alien Cultures. The other. The ones with motivations you may or may not understand. Jar Jar Binks comes off as an attempt to make a childish movie more kid friendly. It fails.

	01-03-2004 06:26									#34
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I think in terms of who has the best bad guy it has to go to the borg. The Borg adjust to your attacks, the Empires froces can't even aim. But in terms of weaponry, it has to go to Star Wars. NOTHING is more powerful or cool than getting a lightsabre, and mastery of the force. Unless of course you were to obtian the powers of the Q like Riker did in that one episode where he gets sort of obsessed with his power.

	01-03-2004 06:26									#35
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I never liked Star Trek the movie that entertaining- in fact, I really don't like any of the trek movies, just like I found all the B5 made for TV movies to be crap.

	01-03-2004 06:32									#36
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I thought there was some good scenes and ideas in Star wars one and two. The race and the battle droids in one were inventive. The clone factory was fascinating and the final battle in two was entertaining. The dialogue was perhaps not so good. Except for Ben Kenobi's and the Emperors lines. But then again they were already fully fledged characters.

Maybe George Lucas should have started all over and invented an entirely new universe. Or should have put the ideas of one and tow into one more tightly construced movie.

I would also like to point out the other Science fiction franchises. Namely Planet of the Apes, which was perhaps not so good in the latest installment. And the Alien Saga which is also somewhat controversial. Dune sadly never got off the ground. Neither did the Cyperpunk ideas by William Gibson. Matrix fizzled out.

Which makes me think that someone needs to put an entirely new concept to the screen.

	01-03-2004 06:34									#37
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The first Matrix movie is better than all the ST/SW movies.

12 monkeys is better.

	01-03-2004 06:35									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus The first Matrix movie is better than all the ST/SW movies. 12 monkeys is better.

Holy crap, you have bad taste. Phew!

	01-03-2004 06:40									#39
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I never understood 12 monkeys. What was the idea again. Something with timetravel and a deadly virus, and then it all went up in smoke.

	01-03-2004 07:00									#40
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Bruce Willis character travels back in time to gather intel to either get a sample of or stop a virus from decimating the human race. He falss in love in the process or was he always in love with a certain woman. In the end his mission was a success because he found the person responsible and the woman on the plane was sent to get a sample. I hope this does not give too much away.

	01-03-2004 07:07									#41
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Matrix is crap except for first one

	01-03-2004 07:07									#42
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IMO, both Star Wars and Star Trek never really brought us the ultimate space battle. It's still waiting to be done.

	01-03-2004 07:22									#43
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Battlestar Glactica definitely brought us a great space battle. Why do you discount Battle Star Galactica?

	01-03-2004 07:22									#44
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The ultimate Space battle battle would be something like Midway, The London Blitz, Iwo Jima, Kursk, and the Fall of Berlin in one cut.

	01-03-2004 07:31									#45
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B5 had many great space battles

	01-03-2004 07:45									#46
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I think par tof the problem with the 'new' Star Wars is the lack of charisma. There were strong characters based on the old serials. Maybe it was just the times, but it seemed everyone was a fan of one of the main characters, whether it was Han, Leia, Vader or whomever.

No one in the new franchise comes off with any strong dramatic believability. The effects are great, and there's a story there, but the acting is almost negligible.

Even Mark Hamill had more range than the guy playing Vader.... and that's not saying much. Can't even recall his name.

	01-03-2004 07:51									#47
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B5 had a lot going for it but failed when they tried to make made for TV movies. I liked the concept of taking a story and sticking to the story arc through the series. Most of the Star Trek series didnt even attempt this. They were just a bunch of episodes stuck together. Some of their best were when they took something and developed it over two episodes. What is bad, is that all the series had episodes that mirrored each other. They kept getting caught in the same kinds of situations. The best trek movie without a doubt is Wraith of Khan. Sure they ended up saving the day but there was a cost to their success. Then of course they went and ****ed it up by making the sacrifice mean nothing when they brought spock back.

Thank God Lucus never made Star Wars into a TV franchise. It would have been far more agonizing than having to watch the prequals.

	01-03-2004 08:01									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman IMO, both Star Wars and Star Trek never really brought us the ultimate space battle. It's still waiting to be done.

See, I still think the RotJ space battle hasn't been topped. It has all the elements you want--huge capital ship combat, awesome fighter dogfighting, a few nasty surprises (the trap, the DS laser), the good guys almost being beaten, and the biggest stakes imaginable (the fate of the entire galaxy). Love it.

	01-03-2004 08:02									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Thank God Lucus never made Star Wars into a TV franchise. It would have been far more agonizing than having to watch the prequals.

Two cartoon series, plus the Ewok television movies...

	01-03-2004 08:22									#50
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quote: Two cartoon series, plus the Ewok television movies...

I remeber those crappy Ewok movies. Ugggh! talk about crap! And ya those cartoon series sucked too! Ironically Star Trek had a cartoon series in the seventie too. I don't think it lasted a whole season. I think it would be funny if they tried to make starwars a geek tv series, kinda like Hercules, mortal Kombat, or Xena.

	01-03-2004 08:22									#51
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I like the SW universe better.

My only problem is that they build a dynamic and function SciFi world that has amazing depth and detail. However they then invalidate ever rule they made for the sake of some fancifull and corny character antics.

Everyone fears the mighy Imperial Starfleet's ISD. Except of course when they have a rag tag ex-freighter with inferior weapons and shields....

	01-03-2004 08:28									#52
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quote: B5 had many great space battles

I agree with Boris that in trms of scale and length, the battle in RotJ is the best space battle on film. But with the limited budget they had, B5 certainly had better space battles than Star Trek, on a much smaller budget- the episode in which Earth ships battle each other outside B5 is great, as is the space battle in which the Shadows ambush the Narn Fleet and then the Centauri bombard Narn from space.

	01-03-2004 08:44									#53
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What about the battle scenes in the new Battlestar Galactica movie. If there was a battle in space it would be closer to Battle Star Galactica than Star Wars or Star Trek.

	01-03-2004 08:45									#54
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Okay, What about Space above and beyond.

	01-03-2004 08:47									#55
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defi****ingnitely star TREK

	01-03-2004 08:50									#56
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quote: What about the battle scenes in the new Battlestar Galactica movie. If there was a battle in space it would be closer to Battle Star Galactica than Star Wars or Star Trek.

Techwise, those battles were the most realitic of all I have seen, but of course the level of tech they try to represent is lower- after all, no deflector shields of any kind, no real beam weapon, and a FTL system that does not appear to be traceable (which makes sense, since if you are moving FTL< how could you be traced?)

Still, in terms of how they were edited, and in general scael, I still prefer the B5 battles.

	01-03-2004 08:51									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Okay, What about Space above and beyond.

I loved the series but it never seemed to catch on. I loved the look of the earth ships and those of the chigs. The series definitly felt more real than star trek but it never got to realize it's potential.

	01-03-2004 08:52									#58
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quote: Okay, What about Space above and beyond.

OK show- the battles in it were fine,but there was ahrdly ever any real scale to them- I think there was one large setpiece battle that involved more than ust a few capital ships.

The thing is, the sow did not flesh out its universe that well- of course, it was not given the time.

	01-03-2004 08:55									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Two cartoon series, plus the Ewok television movies...

Damn you Boris I had successfully blocked the horrid ewok movies from my mind until you brought the memories flashing back in all its horror.

	01-03-2004 09:02									#60
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well, there is also the fabled and deeply infamous SW Christmas special.