01-03-2004 09:03									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus If there was a battle in space it would be closer to Battle Star Galactica than Star Wars or Star Trek.

If we had ultimate realism, there would be no sound in space, or fiery explosions. So what? That's not interesting. We want to see loud, firey space battles of epic proportions. Realism takes a back seat to entertaining.

	01-03-2004 09:06									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Damn you Boris I had successfully blocked the horrid ewok movies from my mind until you brought the memories flashing back in all its horror.

Mwahahaha.



GePap beat me to the Xmas special, but there was also a THANKSGIVING special! HORROR! HORROR!

	01-03-2004 09:11									#63
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quote: If we had ultimate realism, there would be no sound in space, or fiery explosions. So what? That's not interesting. We want to see loud, firey space battles of epic proportions. Realism takes a back seat to entertaining.

The most realisitc space sequences are from 2001.

It's not fair to compare TV and Film space battles-the budgets are so vastly different.

Though it is true that film is seriously lacking in big space battles- besides the SW franshises, I can only think of Starship Troopers, ST movies and Maybe the godawful Wing Commander film having nice battle set pieces.

And for the third time (to beat a dead horse, no?), I find the battles in B5 best overall, not only effects and realism (as much as that is worth), but also editing and how they fit into the show.

	01-03-2004 09:12									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc This revulsion towards the amusing Jar Jar Binks is something I never understood. What exactly is wrong with him? I mean basicly he is modelled on Goofy, the Disney character. I think also there is a little bit of xenophibia in there, since he speaks something which could vaguely be interpreted as Rastafarian. Also he likes bufoonery, and behaves in an anti-authoritain manner. This does not mix well with the marine barracks humour most well adapted and socialized people tend to identify themselves with. The latter is the kind of humour that takes Freuds conclusion that humour is subliminated sadistic impulses to its logical extreme. In short Jar Jar Binks is every Marine sergants nightmare. His total inablity to understand technical details of course also infuriates the modern consumer. So in a sense he is a bit anti-capitalistic. From a feminist point of view it is also easy to see why Jar Jar Binks would infuriate males, but I won't get into that.

Ah, but the scenes in Star Wars 2 when he so cheerfully volunteers to stand in for Senator Amadala, and then so tries so hard to solemnly to propose dictatorial powers for Chancellor Palpitine are priceless. Lucas ought to follow up on this plot line by having the Rebel alliance target him for assasination. It's really a great idea if you think about it. How often in the history of mankind have we humans been betrayed by well-meaning but clueless power pawns?

	01-03-2004 09:13									#65
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I think the Dominion War battles in DS9 were pretty awesome, too. Better than anything I've seen on any other TV show.

	01-03-2004 09:20									#66
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quote: I think the Dominion War battles in DS9 were pretty awesome, too. Better than anything I've seen on any other TV show.

IN terms of effects, they were great, but I have always found ST battle odd- after all, they are all capital ship battles, yet they feel more like dogfights as the ships zip around. NOw, my memory does not serve me well, but are any of those battles crucial plot points? (with the exception of when the dominion takes the station)

	01-03-2004 09:41									#67
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I always thought DS9 got better when they started concentrating on the dominion war more instead of doing the same ole trek episodes.

The battle scenes near the end of the series where the feds closed in on Cardassa were pretty good. But like Gepap mentioned, they always seemed to ignore the class differences of ships and they all acted like small fighters. Towards the end they did sort of break up into different wings with different class ships.

All the Trek series have been about the lone ship on patrol and not fleets moving together. With a few exceptions of course. .

	01-03-2004 09:42									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Ah, but the scenes in Star Wars 2 when [Jar Jar Binks] so cheerfully volunteers to stand in for Senator Amadala, and then so tries so hard to solemnly to propose dictatorial powers for Chancellor Palpitine are priceless. Lucas ought to follow up on this plot line by having the Rebel alliance target him for assasination.

Well Boba Fett got his head chopped off (bad call), so they will have to look elsewhere for that hit.

	01-03-2004 09:46									#69
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Jango got his head cut off

	01-03-2004 09:48									#70
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That's right. Maybe Boba can take the job. I think even a child would be able to assasinate Jar Jar. It would be a sort of practice for him.

	01-03-2004 10:06									#71
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Battle Star Galatica had jet engines! that ins't realistic.

Star Trek has the most realistic space combat.

	01-03-2004 10:16									#72
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Boba's first hit as a child assassinating a retarded alien

Those engines were not jets. They were maneuvering thrusters. That is something that a future spaceship may have.

Realism can be entertaining.

	01-03-2004 10:27									#73
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I'm watching Star Trek 8 on HBO right now.

Now if real bullets from a tommy gun can kill borg, then why don't they use replicators to manufacture hundres of real projectile weapons instead of using energy weapons such as phasers?

That's a pretty obvious weak point of the Borg. It wouldn't work on their ship, but it would work on individual borgs.

	01-03-2004 10:49									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Boba's first hit as a child assassinating a retarded alien Those engines were not jets. They were maneuvering thrusters. That is something that a future spaceship may have. Realism can be entertaining.

The Starfyru in B5 cpould do a stading 180 degree turn thanks to the fact space is a vacuum and thruster would allow you to do so.

	01-03-2004 11:05									#75
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The Starfyru in B5 cpould do a stading 180 degree turn thanks to the fact space is a vacuum and thruster would allow you to do so.

I'm a fan of B5 also.

	01-03-2004 11:06									#76
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Even though I hate SW and ST, SW tie fighter and Starfleet command were excellent games.

	01-03-2004 12:27									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Which makes me think that someone needs to put an entirely new concept to the screen.

Ah, you mean like Firefly? (which, I add, didn't have sound in space or unrealistically large explosions)

SP

	01-03-2004 12:39									#78
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I know this is the total geek question, but **** you I ma a geek ,and I'm proud of it! Green Lantern RULES!!!!
But yeah, which univerese would you rather live in? What would you rather be in said universe?
As cool as Star Trek is, I'd be a damn Jedi! Not a Jedi master per se, but a good freakin Jedi! My first mission would be to kill Jar Jar before Boba got to him!

	01-03-2004 12:46									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Fve Crathva Ah, you mean like Firefly? (which, I add, didn't have sound in space or unrealistically large explosions) SP

I could not watch firefly because everyone around me including me hates country music. I could not stand the background music.

	01-03-2004 12:48									#80
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear I know this is the total geek question, but **** you I ma a geek ,and I'm proud of it! Green Lantern RULES!!!! But yeah, which univerese would you rather live in? What would you rather be in said universe? As cool as Star Trek is, I'd be a damn Jedi! Not a Jedi master per se, but a good freakin Jedi! My first mission would be to kill Jar Jar before Boba got to him!

I think I'd rather live in the ST world. It seems safer and less corrupt than SW.

	01-03-2004 13:26									#81
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quote: I think I'd rather live in the ST world. It seems safer and less corrupt than SW.

That is precisely what makes it soooooo fun and cool. The ST universe has far too much order to it. But then again, SW doesn't have a holodeck, which offers the ultimate "fantasy" experience, and I don't mean like LOTR fantasy. The corruption is also why the SW video games have kicked so much a** as compared to the ST games. Case in point Knights of the Old Republic. Plus, the corruption allows for great spinoffs of Tarantino movies but in the SW universe.
OOOOH try and fit that many allusions into a post and still stay on topi! I rule!

	01-03-2004 13:37									#82
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yeah but you could use the holodeck to get the same experience. and it's safer. The bad thing is they probably wouldn't allow you to spend 24 hours in the holodeck.

face it, the holodeck is the coolest gadget- ever. It can satisfy so many emotional and cerebral needs. The first to come to mind is sex. But it could be used for much, much more.

All of you guys want to be in the SW universe, but face it. Odds are you would never be a Jedi. You'd be stuck on tattoine farming sand. Or cleaning up dung from some weird beast, or as a slave Or just simply blown up by the Empire. But in ST there is no money. So I'd imagine because of that, everyone would have access to a holodeck.

	01-03-2004 14:38									#83
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THE BEST COMBINATION POSSIBLE!

You'd be living in the ST universe, but you'd use the holodeck to be a Jedi Master in the SW universe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus all the free, emotionless, diseaseless sex!!!! I have seen heaven!!

	01-03-2004 14:51									#84
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Am I the only one who keeps reading B5 as bullsh*t.

	01-03-2004 15:14									#85
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I'd like to see reply Darth Vader would give to a Borg saying resistance is useless

	01-03-2004 18:16									#86
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I suppose in either universe I would have the same job I do now.

I officer of Federation Starfleet or the Imperial Starfleet.

	01-03-2004 18:18									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I suppose in either universe I would have the same job I do now. I officer of Federation Starfleet or the Imperial Starfleet.

I'm in Norfolk also. What ship are you on.

	01-03-2004 18:21									#88
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I am about to transfer to the McFaul at the end of the month. I am at NSCS Athens going to some classes now.

You?

	01-03-2004 18:26									#89
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Better or Worse depends on what you're looking for.

Star Wars is a light science fantasy series. From story terms, it's a pretty basic Hero's Journey kind of story. The original trilogy went from decent to good to bad, and the new one has been just as mixed (episode 2, for instance; good except for the romance storyline, which was really, really bad).

Star Trek is kind of a light Space Opera, with much more focus on the action than anything else. It was at least as variable in quality as Star Wars, running from the great episodes like "Amok Time" and "Guardian on the Edge of Forever" (which have the advantage of being written by excellent and established science-fiction authors) to drek like "Spock's Brain".

So, really, just asking which one is better is kind of meaningless. What do you want, and do you mean in total or comparing best to best? Are you talking about the entire Star Trek franchise, or just the original series (Including Berman/Braga's work brings the average quality way down)?

If you're after overalls, I'd say they're about the same, just for different areas. Comparing bests to bests, I'd say the best of Star Trek is definitely better than Empire Strikes Back.

People have also brought up Babalon 5, which definitely had some good moments. But it got off to a rocky start, and faltered at the end. Average quality is higher than the other two, though.

I haven't seen Battlestar in a long time, so I won't comment.

--"Thank God Lucus never made Star Wars into a TV franchise."

I have to differ with all the people claiming this. I'm guessing no one's been watching the Star Wars animation on Cartoon Network.

--"What about Space above and beyond."

Action series that just happens to be set in space. It's main problem is one of believability. You just can't have an elite front-line marine unit in the middle of a major war and always have the same characters. These guys are going to have an attrition rate higher than a couple extras per season.

Of course, the planes-in-space physics (at that late a date for production) and mediocre scripts didn't help.

--"Starship Troopers"

Another craptastic excursion. That movie made no sense from so many levels. Never hold it up as example of combat sequences unless you're trying to show exactly what not to do. Honestly. A ring of people firing automatic weapons at a target in the center of their circle.... life fire excercises on an eleveated concrete platform in the middle of a training ground... massive fleets of closely packed spaceships attacking a planet with known ground defenses.... ugh...

--"Battle Star Galatica had jet engines! that ins't realistic. "

Well, I tend to be more forigiving about tech details in the earlier shows. However, if you're talking about the Vipers, they were dual-use ships, and were used a number of times for landing on planets with atmospheres.

In any case, if we're lucky we'll actually see a Legend of the Galactic Heroes release on DVD in the US this year or next...

Wraith
"Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns and detective stories."
-- Arthur C. Clarke

	01-03-2004 18:31									#90
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Oh you're a supply type. I'm at COMLANTFLT about to transfer to ATG Ingleside in a couple of months. SWO.