01-03-2004 18:34									#91
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The "Starship Troopers" storyline and would should not be judged by the movie as unlike the others is is a book adapted to a movie. Compromises had to be made. The book ties up all those loose ends, as well as purges the liberal message syndrome applied to it. It actually has the OPPOSITE message than the book on most levels.

Another SW good point, THE SW UNIVERSE HAS DIRT!!! That is right. Sometimes the machinery (thats right technology in SW has moving parts) gets oily, dirty, corroded, rusty, etc. It is a much more real looking atmosphere.

	01-03-2004 18:36									#92
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Ah a SWOrrier

I actually wanted to be a SWO too but the Navy thought different. I don't know about Ingleside. Have some freinds at Corpus across the channel and they do nothing but ***** about the place.

Good luck over there though.

	01-03-2004 18:36									#93
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I liked the Mobile Infantry concept in the Starship Troopers book. In the book the soldiers were basically one man armies that would mainly see each other at the pick up points. The live fire exercises and what not made more since in the book. The only part the movie I liked was the COED shower.

	01-03-2004 18:38									#94
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I liked that their were more variety of bugs in the movie. It is like they took all the capabilities of the human's away but at the same time magnified that of the bugs by several times.

	01-03-2004 19:01									#95
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Boris:

quote: I still think the RotJ space battle hasn't been topped.

Yes, the battle scenes were great, I just was a bit dappointed when they made it into the huge reactor room, fired some laser beams and that was it....IMO that should have been more dramatic, for example with some dogfights taking place directly in front of the reactor before the rebels are blowing it up.

Pax:

quote: What about Space above and beyond.

Just wondering - they showed it here on German TV some years ago, but stopped after some seasons with a kind of cliffhanger episode - was this show canceled in the US?

GePap:

quote: Maybe the godawful Wing Commander film having nice battle set pieces.

Hm, I think the dogfights were ok, but the battle between the capital ships was crap. It was esp. funny when they gave the big Kilrathi ship a "full broadside" like a ship-of-the-line from the 18th century

	01-03-2004 19:22									#96
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SW has ground combat, and ST doesn't.

Sure they will press gang some helpless crewmen and send them on the infamous "away teams" but nothing specialized. Apparently this requires the top 10% of officers be included too, LEAD FROM THE FRONT! No armour (though aparenty personal shields and phasor resistant armor exists), no camo, no helemts, no field gear, no tanks (some other races have this, Kira mentions Cardassian ones), no atmosheric bombardment weapons (tropedoes and phasors can't even destroy a ship in one shot, imagine trying to waste cities).

Granted they can do quite a bit of damage from orbit, just like in SW, but what if you are not trying to glass the planet? What if you want it intact? What if you want to pacify the population? There just seems to be alot of situations where an army type organization would be helpful in ST. All those poor navy ratings just thrown into the meat grinder is painful.

Now Enterprise has Marines, which is a step in the right direction, but they are not in any other series.

	01-03-2004 19:54									#97
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Space above and Beyond was cancelled at the explosive cliffhanger you saw. If you followed the show you never saw it coming. But I think it is plausible.

	01-03-2004 19:58									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Space above and Beyond was cancelled at the explosive cliffhanger you saw. If you followed the show you never saw it coming. But I think it is plausible.

Hm, thats a pity, I liked it somehow, although not as much as StarTrek or B5.....

	01-03-2004 20:20									#99
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I had one sticking point with Space Above and Beyond.

Why would you use pilots that you spent millions of whatever they have on training and are obiously some of your best fighter pilots as regular infantry? once again slaughtering the scifi "world" you creatd for the sake of character plot (can't be helped).

I only ever saw one "fleet battle," which was a one on one against a "chig" capital ship of unknown class/size. Only involved the main carrier of the plot. Saw three terran carriers bombard a planet in one episode, with one bieng destroyed. Pretty cool.

	01-03-2004 20:37									#100
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I guess the writers wanted to showcase both space fights and ground battles while keeping the cast tiny.

	01-03-2004 21:05									#101
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I Couldn't care less about this Banal, Embarassing and Assinine Science-fiction Tripe...

	02-03-2004 00:38									#102
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Can't let the thread end on that note, hater.

	02-03-2004 00:40									#103
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star trek

star wars is whoretastic.

	02-03-2004 00:42									#104
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quote: Can't let the thread end on that note, hater.

Why do haters post anyway? If you don't like the topic, stay out..

But Drake is just sad cause no one is mentioning Dune positively.

	02-03-2004 00:48									#105
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I lkied the whole royal family thing, as lets face it, if you are going to hold domnon over 1000s of worlds and billionsupon billons of people it will be through dictatotal power.

	02-03-2004 02:09									#106
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I don;t think you could hold power over so many disperate world unless travelling between each system was very quick-too much oportunity for feudalism and eventual breakup.

Well, I am too deeply B5 biased really, I end up comparing all programs to it.

	02-03-2004 02:13									#107
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Fuedalism is pretty much wghat they ended up with in Dune.

	02-03-2004 02:21									#108
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Characters like Jar-Jar and the Ewoks serve to cheapen a film series that's supposed to be serious. Star Wars has devolved into a Three Stoges in Space saga.

Stupid Lucas and his weird obsession to make sci-fi movies that appeal to little boys. Something must be sick in his head.

	02-03-2004 02:26									#109
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Star Wars has some pretty explosions, but not much else. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Star Wars, but Star Trek is just much better - better character development and relationships, better plots and sub-plots with underlying messages. Granted, there was far more opportunity for Star Trek since it spans several different TV series and 10(?) movies.

Still, when you compare the Star Wars movies to the first six ST movies, which ones come out ahead? Star Trek, no competition.

	02-03-2004 02:44									#110
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What about Stargate (the series)? *runs*

I do take guilty pleasure in that show occasionally, when my gf decides to watch it.

I can't compare SW to ST in total. So I'll just compare the best bits. To me, that means:

SW Episodes IV - VI versus ST II, VIII and IV. I'm not going to compare movies and TV show episodes.

Hmm. I'll go with Star Wars. I was more entertained by those movies than by the Star Trek ones, even though I liked both.

I keep hearing really good things about Bab5. A co-worker of mine has a couple seasons of it on DVD... perhaps I should borrow it.

-Arrian

	02-03-2004 02:48									#111
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Babylon 5 is the best Sci Fi series I have ever seen. I like Stargate.

	02-03-2004 02:52									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I keep hearing really good things about Bab5. A co-worker of mine has a couple seasons of it on DVD... perhaps I should borrow it. -Arrian

If you had to view any one season, I wuld recommend season's 1 or 3: one becuase it is introductory, and since the series is one single storyline, might as wel join in_ though many of the characters in season one leave the series soon afterwards. Season three is excellent- the best in the series. The final episode or the season is excellent, and also reveals the major plot secret of the series. The episode in which B5 delcares independence won a Hugo award for dramatic presentation.

The comes season 2, in tersm of quality- the episodes about the Narn-Centaury war are best, with the episode about the Centauri emperor coming to B% also winning a Hugo.

Sadly, I have been unable to secure season 3

	02-03-2004 02:55									#113
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ST movies versus SW movies.

I HATE "A New Hope."

I HATE "Star Treck: Motion Picture," "Final Frontier," the ones with the whales and the one with the Spock thing. Very stupid.

I don't mind "Generations," or "First Contact," but the other two even worse than the original series flops.

That is 1/3 for SW and 6/10 for ST.

SW wins.

	02-03-2004 02:58									#114
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I find it difficult to think of a fictional character as irritating as Jar Jar Binks, in either film or literature. Uriah Heep comes close, but is better written.

I would gladly see a Stalinist revision of film and popular culture history with every mention of the vile creation edited out. It's like a purple Paris Hilton.

The Ewoks could be put to good use- wiping arses in a dysentery/cholera outbreak hospital ward.

Failing that, a mass kebabing, preferably without humane stunning. I should imagine the Iron Chefs of Japan could do the trick.

I didn't much like the Star Wars' films, and the last two have been particularly irritating. The young Anakin is almost as dull an actor as Mark Hamill, and Liam Neeson and Ewan MacGregor look embarrassed or constipated or both much of the time.

I still have fond memories of Gerry Anderson's U.F.O. which was futuristically set in 1990, when we would be driving around in De Lorean style cars, wearing one piece jumpsuits and fending off organ stealing aliens, with purple wigged women on Moonbase and jet aircraft attached to submarines.

At least it didn't have Ewoks and Jar of Chopped Liver.

Anyway, Star Trek is better than Star Warts- the heterosexual men must appreciate that the bootylicious count in Star Trek far surpasses Star Bores- I mean, Carrie Fisher's Ilse Koch-u-like hairdo and prison warder face, puh-leeze.

	02-03-2004 04:25									#115
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Carrie was hot. I'd hit it. Even when she was a coke head.

And I have a shocking admission. I actually liked the Ewoks. They fitted with the storyline decently. Unlike Jar Jar- who was clearly thrown for humour, but did not fit into the plot at all. Ewoks fit into the plot because they were the native inhabitants of the moon.

	02-03-2004 04:47									#116
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quote: But Drake is just sad cause no one is mentioning Dune positively.

Doubtful, as I didn't even read the thread.

	02-03-2004 05:14									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I had one sticking point with Space Above and Beyond. Why would you use pilots that you spent millions of whatever they have on training and are obiously some of your best fighter pilots as regular infantry? once again slaughtering the scifi "world" you creatd for the sake of character plot (can't be helped). I only ever saw one "fleet battle," which was a one on one against a "chig" capital ship of unknown class/size. Only involved the main carrier of the plot. Saw three terran carriers bombard a planet in one episode, with one bieng destroyed. Pretty cool.

I guess I'm the sole Space above and beyond fan. As such I rationalize that the Marines are basically Special Forces trained to fight anywhere. This makes since to me if you were light years away from a manpower resource and you need a pilot now. Then you infantry now. These guys actually make more since than the ST away teams.

	02-03-2004 05:16									#118
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Speaking of feudal governments there is a mechwarrior movie in the making. If you're not familiar, MW comes complete with Princes, Star Lords, Dukes, and Princesses.

	02-03-2004 05:38									#119
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That could be interesting but my guess is they will slaughter it. The MechWarrior entity was more of a technology and political sotry than character based. A host of people could quote you mech designs and political divisons but not a single character.

People such as me

	02-03-2004 05:46									#120
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I've read a lot of the books. All of the best ones. That universe has a lot of potential if the SW, ST, and starship trooper directors don't get a hold of it.