02-03-2004 10:15									#1
	The "Chat" Thread Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A plan I've been playing around with for a while is trying to find ways to bring more of the content of the chatroom into the forum where more people can be involved and see what's going on. This is the first step in this plan.

Basically, chat logs of important subjects of interest can (and should) be posted in here, along with a summary and a link to a relevant thread (if one exists) in order to help stimulate discussion. Some of the logs might be rather long, so they can be divided into different parts with seperate discussions.

I encourage all those who engage in discussion within the chat room to use this thread to help bring more information to the team, and I encourage those who are unable to attend chat to use this thread as a resource to bring further information and discussion here in the forum.

	02-03-2004 11:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Perhaps posting chat logs of the team chat for all times of all days would be a good thing? There would then be nothing left unsaid in the forum. People would have to keep in mind that chat would then be public record, but would that be bad?

	02-03-2004 11:38									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok, just a warning: if we put everyhing we say in the chatroom, 90% of it will be:

- WhiteBandit, Arnelos and MZ's love life (or lack thereof)

- Togas' daily demand: Play the FAM! (in reference to the FAM's neverending series of PBEMs which one of us always forgets to play or send... usually me)

- E_T's e-mail/router/cable/computer problems.

- Kloreep's "HI™" of death. (Panzer32 already died because of it)

- The world famous Trip jokes.

	02-03-2004 11:39									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Perhaps posting chat logs of the team chat for all times of all days would be a good thing? There would then be nothing left unsaid in the forum. People would have to keep in mind that chat would then be public record, but would that be bad?

you are aware of the comic irrellevance of 90% of what is always said in chat aren't you?

	02-03-2004 12:11									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Some discussion about our short and medium-term economic planning, as well as our desire to build wonders in the Medieval Age.

quote: [00:21] * E_T would like to discuss some things that he has been thinking about, game wise [00:22] [E_T] first of, CGN and GP [00:23] [E_T] In keeping with the policy of keeping the tech costs as high as possible for GWT, I think that we should only get GP from CGN when one of 2 things happens [00:23] [E_T] 1) GWT gets it [00:24] [E_T] or 2) CGN is about to die [00:24] [Arnelos] agreed [00:24] [Trip] 3) CFC attacks us [00:24] [Arnelos] also, us NOT HAVING GP will let us beaker count to determine whether GWT has it [00:24] * MZ[Drinking] is now known as MasterZen [00:25] [Togas] excellent point [00:25] [E_T] as for knowing where our resorces are (and the same for CFC) we can ask CGN to send us a map of our 1/2 of the contenents deposits and CFC their 1/2 of the contenents deposits [00:25] [Trip] or we could ask for a map of the whole world [00:26] [E_T] it's fair in that repect, that both us and CFC doesn't know where the deposits are of the other without the techs [00:28] [Kloreep] Arnelos: CGN could determine whether GWT has it anyway [00:28] [E_T] this way, se can say to CFC, that we aren't getting the tech because of the economic war with GWT but that we want us to be secure and in the same light, that they also be secure knowing where their own deposits are [00:28] [Arnelos] Kloreep - how? [00:28] [Kloreep] See if they can offer it [00:28] [Kloreep] We could do the same if we had it [00:28] [Arnelos] oh yeah [00:29] [Arnelos] [00:29] [Kloreep] That said, let's definitely cost GWT as many beakers as we can [00:29] [Arnelos] so much for that theory [00:29] [E_T] Klor, GWT doesn't have Invention, so it's definate that they don't have GP [00:29] [Arnelos] for NOW, yes [00:29] [Kloreep] E_T: Yes, I was responding to Arnelos: [00:29] [Kloreep] [Arnelos] also, us NOT HAVING GP will let us beaker count to determine whether GWT has it [00:30] [Arnelos] we don't even know what they're researching... entirely possible that GWT is building cash on a 40-turn Invention research so they can 4-turn GP or something [00:30] [Kloreep] Speaking of which, are we starting a MA wonder prebuild? [00:31] [Kloreep] I saw some discussion about that but no firm plans [00:31] [E_T] we can trust that CGN can keep track of them getting GP, after we know that GWT has Invention, also, the beaker counting can help us determine at what ratio GWT is researching at [00:31] [Arnelos] HoD, right? [00:33] [Trip] HoD for Lighthouse or Magellan's [00:33] [Trip] AP for Leo's or Smiths [00:33] [Trip] it'd be nice to get both Leo's and Smith's and both science wonders [00:33] [Trip] our tech lead would make that a possibility based upon CGN's current build priorities and CFC's suckage [00:34] [Kloreep] Is there a third site that could do Smith's? [00:34] [Kloreep] If we do Leo's at AP, it might be better start Smith's elsewhere later on [00:34] [E_T] now, the cities and their sizes they can reach for productivity [00:35] [E_T] currently, with the WW, our unmodified cities can get to size 5 [00:35] [Trip] Klo: good wonder sites would be Tripoli (once it gets a Market and Aquaduct), Chiquita and Dominus [00:35] [E_T] once we are at peace, unmodified to size 6 [00:36] [E_T] with a market, we can get to size 8 and a market and temple, size 9 [00:36] [Trip] Cathedral, size 12 [00:36] [E_T] Now, temples are not cheap and neither is Collusiums and Cathedrals [00:37] [Trip] if CGN lives they can trade us 2 luxuries [00:37] [Trip] extra... 6 (?) happy people [00:37] [Trip] with a Market [00:38] [Trip] once we get Navigation, that is [00:38] [E_T] Collus only help 2 and caths only 3 unhappy be content [00:38] [Trip] so if CGN manages to survive, Navigation should be a priority [00:39] [Trip] we'd be able to get to size 12 with just a Market [00:39] [Trip] no Temple, no Cathedral, no lux slider [00:39] [E_T] them trading us is a bonus, we should plan and act that they are not going to survive and then if they do, all the better for us [00:39] [Trip] correct [00:39] [Trip] but it's something to look forward to if they do live [00:40] [E_T] can you imagine trying to work out a lux trade deal with GWT?? [00:40] [Trip] what do we do with AP after the Palace jump? [00:40] [Trip] it'll only be able to hold 6 pop until we finish the Market and then 8 [00:40] [Trip] it'll be at least size 9 when the jump occurs [00:40] [Trip] probably don't want to waste the lux slider [00:41] [E_T] AP will be using some specialist, but the more that has to be added to the city,m for the move, the more that is needed for specialist [00:41] [Trip] until we get other cities like Banana, BB, Dominus and Chiquita up to size [00:41] [E_T] and less for production, because food will be a priority [00:42] [Trip] is Banana gonna grow forever (exaggeration :P) after this next Settler? [00:42] [E_T] with 1 entertainer, AP can get up to a size 8 (1 entertainer, 7 working) with no WW [00:43] [E_T] Banana is going to be growing after the palace move, but will stay under size 5 before the move [00:43] [WhiteBandit] man, we need some sims to play with for this :P [00:43] [Trip] right [00:43] [Trip] how long before our river cities get above size 6? [00:44] [Trip] oh E_T... [00:44] [Trip] before I forget [00:44] [E_T] well, that does depend on 1 very pertanant factor, peace with CGA, which we should have this next turn [00:44] [Trip] what in God's name are we doing with BFC? [00:45] [E_T] Trip, first off, nothing, execpt for AP is going to be above size 6 (nuch) before the palace move [00:45] [E_T] Trip, your bouncing [00:45] [E_T] I'm trying to focus this on one topic at this point in time, please [00:46] [E_T] because several of these answers follow from thisset of discussions [00:48] [Trip] yes, yes, sorry :P [00:48] [E_T] Now, as I was saying, it's expencive to build a bunch of happiness builds, but is needed in several places if we want a lot of trade/SPT outputs [00:48] [Trip] okay [00:48] [Trip] which implies Market after Chiquita and Dominus' first Settlers and after BB's next [00:49] [Trip] or something similar to that, I would imagine [00:49] [E_T] one of the things that will help this, and also help us if we go for democracy sooner and we then get into the inevitable war with GWT/GCA [00:49] [E_T] is going for some of the happyness wonders [00:50] [E_T] one of which, is relatively cheap which is HG, I was thinking that that would be good in Banana [00:51] [E_T] and when we get our GA (or just before) we can work on Bachs and possibly SC (although I really think that we will lose SC to GWT) [00:52] [Trip] how many shields is HG? [00:52] [Trip] 200? 300? [00:52] [E_T] so, Bachs is good enough to get things going for us, and we can use our GA for the other wonders, like Copies and Mags and Smiths [00:52] [E_T] 300 [00:53] [Trip] don't forget Leo's [00:53] [Trip] if GWT bypasses it, it's ours [00:53] [E_T] and at the same time, we can work on Leos as much as possible [00:53] [Trip] right [00:53] [Trip] so [00:53] [Trip] what's on the agenda after the jump? [00:53] [Trip] Chiq, Dom and BB build Markets, up to size 8? [00:53] [Trip] Ban up to 8 also [00:54] [E_T] but, if anything, with Bachs & HG and other improvements, we can stand a lot of WW if it ever comes to that again [00:54] [E_T] especially if we go demo sooner than we should [00:55] [Trip] above size 6 cities are a huge boon for us [00:55] [Trip] when Banana dropped from size 7 to size 5 with the last Settler we lost like 8 GPT :P [00:55] [E_T] this will also allow us to concentrate our cities builds towards more military, because they aren't needing to build those other items, at those times [00:55] [E_T] harbors and galleys/caravels [00:56] [Trip] errr, more than that, like 12 GPT [00:56] [E_T] new barracks in our new core [00:56] [Trip] [23:52] [Trip] what's on the agenda after the jump? [00:56] [Trip] [23:52] [Trip] Chiq, Dom and BB build Markets, up to size 8? [00:56] [Trip] [23:52] [Trip] Ban up to 8 also [00:57] [E_T] fairly much so, higher if they can get there with a specialist and not suffer in productivity [00:57] [E_T] Banana has a temple, so it can go to size 9 [00:57] [Trip] ah, right [00:57] [Trip] well, if we get Nana to 10, those other cities to 9 then we could possibly go 10% lux and see if itw as more productive that way [00:58] [Trip] sooo... general scheme for our river cities: [00:58] [E_T] and as I was saying, HG in Banana would act as if all of our cities had a temple in them [00:58] [E_T] the general scheme is this, grow, grow and be strong [00:58] [Trip] finish Granary, build Settler, (growing to size 8+) build Market, build Library [00:59] [Trip] Nana start HG after CH [00:59] [Trip] we'll have to scrape Monarchy from somewhere :P [00:59] [E_T] and when we are done with those, we will have a better idea as to what we will do with them then, because we will have a better idea as to our GA and these other items that we have been discussing [01:00] [E_T] Monarchy is a cheap tech for us right now [01:00] [Trip] right [01:00] [Trip] yes [01:00] [Trip] 4 turns [01:00] [Trip] but we can also do Edu in 6, if we really wanted :P [01:00] [Trip] now then... [01:00] [Trip] what about HoD and BFC? [01:01] [Trip] HoD wonder (GA) city... stays at size 5 until the jump is done [01:01] [Trip] building Library to have access to fish (and gold) [01:01] [E_T] and again, as long as we (and CGN) are in the technology drivers seat, we need to keep things to where we are able to realize the full advantage from being here [01:01] [Trip] Library finishes, grows to size 6 upon the jump, what next? [01:02] [E_T] if things work out like I want them to, when we get done with our GA, we won't have to worry about anything again, not until Nukes [01:04] [E_T] I'll be mining the Iron mountain and mining atleast one onther mountain in HoD soon, and I hope it will be enough for the GL, if not then it will have to be likely in Arcadia [01:04] [E_T] and as for specifics, I have them for some cities and not for others, at this time [01:05] [Trip] any idea if it will it do an Aquaduct after the Lib? [01:05] [Trip] or are we aiming at a size 6 chance at getting it [01:05] [E_T] I'm still recovering from my illness and have been working on things as much as possible [01:06] [E_T] BFC is doing a worker after it's court, then an Aqua, all non river cities that have done a market (atleast), will be starting on Aqua's soon, depending on things like corruption and if on a coast [01:07] [E_T] i.e. harbor for vet ships and more trade?? [01:07] [Trip] right [01:08] [E_T] like I was wanting in Hisp, but had to delay because the palace move was sooner than expected [01:08] [Trip] what about the cities in the south? Right now they're not good for much but once the jump is done we'll suddenly have a new productive core and no improvements [01:09] * WhiteBandit has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:09] [E_T] I'm just hoping that cities like BFC will have a net status quo with the palace move and the courthouse [01:09] [E_T] and not gain too terribly with corruption [01:10] * E_T is now going to have a smoke again [01:10] * E_T is now known as E_T_outside_smoking [01:10] [E_T_outside_smoking] and make some coffee, too....

	02-03-2004 12:15									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And here I was yelled at NEAR UNIVERSALLY for posting chatlogs of #apolytonisdg the last time I did it.

I'm reasonably sure that there are still people as uncomfortable with the idea of posting chatlogs as when I got yelled at for proposing it the last time.

	02-03-2004 12:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Ok, just a warning: if we put everyhing we say in the chatroom, 90% of it will be: - WhiteBandit, Arnelos and MZ's love life (or lack thereof) - Togas' daily demand: Play the FAM! (in reference to the FAM's neverending series of PBEMs which one of us always forgets to play or send... usually me) - E_T's e-mail/router/cable/computer problems. - Kloreep's "HI™" of death. (Panzer32 already died because of it) - The world famous Trip jokes.

This is a pretty fair assessment. The chat is used primarily for personal correspondance, discussing PBEM games, RL, just about anything that comes up. Sifting through chatlogs to find what is actually pertinent to the freakin' game could be one very very annoying job to have.

This is also part of why I got chewed out the last time I posted a log... in part, people told me that they felt the chat was a place where they could relax a little bit and even hash out PERSONAL disagreements that the team has made extremely clear they do not wish to see hashed out here in the forum.

Why, after we just went through an incident of people being mad about such issues being aired in the forum, would the team NOW (when earlier against it) want to publicly post all of the chat logs? Most of it is just plain garbage... some parts of it might include exactly what they don't want to see.

In terms of the substantive DISCUSSION about in-game issues, however, this isn't the first time either I or another has suggested this needs to happen. I think either edited chatlogs that only include game-pertinent information or, far better, CHAT SUMMARIES (though far more work), would be ideal.

	02-03-2004 13:16									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The purpose of this thread is to post relevant-to-the-game chat logs and summaries. In the meantime, I will try to do this, though I request that others assist me in this task (thanks to Kloreep ).

	02-03-2004 13:59									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm not so sure of this...

Posting summaries of what was decided in chat, perhaps with a log or extracts from such as an attachment would be a good idea, but quite frankly I don't have the time nor will to trawl through chatlogs looking for little buts of information, especially if they are posted in full. Maybe a diplomacy log where things were actually DECIDED, but beyond that it is just a thread turn-off to me.

	02-03-2004 14:05									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

it's not so much as what was desided in chat that is important, but what was discussed in chat that is really the thing that is needed to be posted. Those would follow with further forum discussions and then the consuls, when they do make formal disicions in chat, will be shown to have been wih a full set of discussions, prior to the desisions.

I fully support this action, as I was wanting something like this for some time.

E_T

	02-03-2004 20:49									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think if someone wants to edit the useful parts from the chats and post them, that's great. As a regular chat attendee, I would agree that most of it is useless (albeit amusing ). A straight post of the logs would be pointless.

	02-03-2004 22:07									#12
	Remove this text

Yes, spam should always be edited out, we don't need to publish to everyone the details of this Consuls possiblities of a new love interest or how MZ's Lizard is holding out or any of the other things that mostly go on in our chatroom.

As it is, a lot of that time isn't spent chatting about game issues, but talking about this and that and the other thing (or sometimes hours of people coming and going without one word even being spoken). It's only when really major things are going on when we are really active game wise.

E_T

	03-03-2004 07:55									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree 90% of the chat is useless, and/or correspondance confidential to the attendees at the time and not to be posted. However, there's the 10% of game discussions like the one I posted that I think are a good candidates for transferrence to the forum. If they are not, then either it has to be written up all over again in a post, or it simply does not reach the forum at all.

This will require people to exercise judgement about what should be posted and what should and should not be edited, but I think the team can maintain that balance.

	03-03-2004 11:15									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Details of what we talked about tonight:

- E_T's "Operation Potemkin," where CGN should build a city in the desert nearer to the front in an effort to dupe GWT and make them think that's where the saltpeter is.

- The loan to CGN, how much, when to send it, under what conditions, etc.

The core of the chat is posted here. It's long, I know, so read as much or as little as you have time or energy for.

Link to related discussion thread on CGN loan details.

quote: [20:41] *E_T* O.k. can we discuss the possibility of Operation Potemkin?? [20:42] *E_T* can we find out if CGN has a settler near their central Desert? [20:42] *Trip* What is Potemkin? [20:43] *E_T* a fake village, sort of [20:44] *E_T* Potemkin village [20:44] *E_T* n. [20:44] *E_T* Something that appears elaborate and impressive but in actual fact lacks substance: “the Potemkin village of this country's borrowed prosperity” (Lewis H. Lapham). [20:46] *E_T* Potem'kin vil'lage [20:46] *E_T* a pretentiously showy or imposing façade intended to mask or divert attention from an embarrassing or shabby fact or condition. Also,Potem'kin Vil'lage. [20:47] *Trip* okay [20:47] *Trip* so what's the operation then [20:47] *E_T* Denmark: Potemkin Village [20:47] *E_T* by Per Henrik Hansen [20:47] *E_T* [Posted March 6, 2002] [20:47] *E_T* In the 1700s, the courtesans of Queen Catherine of Russia gave her tours along the Volga river where she witnessed a happy and thriving bourgeoisie living in clean and prosperous villages. But this was all a show to cover disease, poverty, and misery that lay just behind the facade that had been erected for her benefit. [20:47] *E_T* This is the origin of the phrase Potemkin Village, a place where a politically generated appearance covers a less impressive underside. [20:48] *E_T* O.k., we set up a fake village for GWT to think is where the CGN SP source is located [20:48] *E_T* they bend their whole might to take out that target and denign them the SP while the real source is safe somewhere else [20:49] *E_T* and from what I see from this map, CGN only has the one source [20:50] *Sharpe* it might work [20:50] *E_T* http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/ISDG/ResourceMap162.jpg [20:51] *E_T* who has room in their upload space to store that map?? [20:51] *Trip* not me :P [20:51] *WhiteBandit* i can just store it on my website [20:52] *Trip* E_T: can you have orders up in a half hour or so? :P [20:52] *E_T* I would like to first have it circle (or some other thing) all of the SP points that are over there [20:52] *E_T* WB, is it secure?? [20:52] *WhiteBandit* yeah, as long as you don't tell anyone else about it :P [20:52] *WhiteBandit* so it's about as secure as miccofl's :P [20:53] *E_T* Trip, it's almost 11, we play tomorrow [20:53] *Sharpe* the village wouldn't work for long as the other desert is probably a good choice - and that is relatively close to the soon-to-be front line [20:53] * Trip sighs [20:53] *Trip* waste of time [20:54] *E_T* True, but then, if they think that it's there, they might change their strategies enough to make a difference in time, for CGN to get more pikes upgraded [20:54] * ZargonX|away is now known as ZargonX [20:54] *E_T* if it delayes them by 1 to 2 turns, that might make a significant differance [20:55] *E_T* it's a shell game [20:56] *E_T* GWT has no idea where that source is located, but then, we make them think that it's somewhere where it's not [20:56] *E_T* that real source is still a bit too close to the potenial front for my tastes [20:57] *E_T* and because GWT doesn't know where it's at, they have to go target all of the most likely places [20:57] *Togas* if I were GWT, I'd just target the big cities [20:57] *Togas* can't hit every possible hill and desert where their might be SP [20:58] *Togas* *there [20:58] *E_T* SO, they either spread out to work on them all (and likely get it sooner) or we give them a target that they will think is where it's at [20:58] *Sharpe* thank goodness GCA can't spy - else they would probably check every desert and hill city [20:59] *E_T* well, lets say that there is a desert tile, in that central desert, that wasn't roaded (of which there are several) [20:59] *E_T* CGN all of the sudden, builds a city in the center of it [21:00] *E_T* It's close to the front, they all of the sudden have muskets and this city is there, what does that tell you?? [21:01] *Sharpe* Night! [21:01] * Sharpe has left #apolytonisdg [21:02] *E_T* it paints a huge neon sign on that city, that that is the target that you need to take out, to keep them from that source [21:03] *E_T* you bend all of your plans to take that out, you raze around it, you do things that you wouldn't normally do, and it might just be enough to keep CGN alive long enought to get everything upgraded and moving to stop the GWT hordes [21:04] *WhiteBandit* well if they're cheating like usual, they'll just look in an editor and ignore it [21:04] *E_T* but I think that CGN needs to consider this move, before they send the save on to us [21:04] *Trip* um [21:04] *Trip* why build a city when all of the desert is in their borders already... [21:05] *E_T* and if they do that, then isn't that a bit of proof of them cheating?? [21:05] *E_T* If that time isn't roaded AND being so close to the front, it might not be in their borders too much longer.... [21:06] *WhiteBandit* i doubt it would work [21:06] * MZ[Away] is now known as MasterZen [21:06] *Trip* that's a big stretch [21:06] *Trip* considering all of the terrain is already in their territory [21:07] *E_T* so, if it is just roaded, then they just take out the cities around it to denign the source, BUT, if there is a new city, right were there wasn;t, close to the front, and likely the source of their SP [21:07] *Trip* if GWT makes it past Agincourt before CGN gets Muskets there then things are over [21:08] *E_T* Go and look at last turn's save and tell me how many of that central desert is roaded?? [21:09] *Trip* tell me how GWT would know [21:09] *E_T* 2 out of 12 tiles are roaded!! [21:09] *Trip* *Trip* if GWT makes it past Agincourt before CGN gets Muskets there then things are over [21:10] *Arnelos* E_T is correct about the conclusions GWT would have to draw about the city... if there are a lot of UN-roaded tiles, they'd have to assume the new city was on the SP source [21:10] *E_T* So, using your brain, if you were GWT and knew that CGN had SP, then you would only have 2 points in that desert to even consider as the possibility of being the source [21:11] *Arnelos* without being able to spy, they'd have to assume the new city was founded to access the SP source [21:11] *E_T* and even if they could spy, they still don;t see the SP, because they don't have gunpowder [21:11] *WhiteBandit* but i'd just start taking as much as i could with my 3 move ansars rather than worry about 1 potential SP spot when they could have more than 1 [21:12] *Arnelos* WB - if they bothered to actually found a city on the SP spot, it means they probably didn't have one until they founded the city... thus it means it's the ONLY source... making it the #1 GWT target [21:12] *E_T* Well, let me ask you this, why place a city in a gorforsaken desert, next to the front, if you had more than one potential source?? [21:13] *Arnelos* xpost [21:13] *WhiteBandit* cause you wanted to secure 2 sources :P [21:13] *Trip* and you had an extra settler [21:13] *E_T* Arnie is seeing what I'm talking about [21:13] *Trip* is no one seeing what I'm posting? :P [21:13] *Trip* *Trip* if GWT makes it past Agincourt before CGN gets Muskets there then things are over [21:13] *Arnelos* I think GWT falls for it, personally... they see that city go down and immediately pounce on it... if they CAN deny CGN SP, why not try? [21:14] *WhiteBandit* eh [21:14] *WhiteBandit* we're trying to predict the actions of the same type of people who used a SPEAR against an MI on a MOUNTAIN [21:14] *Arnelos* that was GCA [21:14] *WhiteBandit* yes [21:14] *WhiteBandit* same type [21:14] *WhiteBandit* :P [21:14] *Arnelos* bongo is not GCA [21:14] *Trip* Spear against an MI on a mountain? :P [21:14] *Trip* I don't recall any such event [21:14] *WhiteBandit* nor do i [21:14] *E_T* and if it delays and slightly derails their main plans, enough to give CGN a turn or 2 to consolidate with their upgrades, then it might just make a huge differance [21:14] *WhiteBandit* regardless [21:15] *WhiteBandit* my points stands [21:15] *WhiteBandit* the thing is, if they break past the front lines to even get to that city, those 2 turns won't matter [21:15] *WhiteBandit* they will be INSIDE cgn's homeland [21:15] *Trip* yes [21:15] *WhiteBandit* they will have 50+ ansars against a handful of musketmen [21:15] *Trip* and if CGN consolidates... so what? [21:15] *Trip* GWT has 3-movers past the chokepoints [21:16] *Trip* CGN will fall like a house of cards [21:16] *Trip* Muskets or no Muskets [21:16] *E_T* but if CGN fortifies it enough to make it seem like th emain target and GWT falls for it, it really might do the job [21:16] *Arnelos* this is a legitimate concern [21:16] *WhiteBandit* so then they attack it [21:16] *WhiteBandit* it falls [21:16] *WhiteBandit* CGN still dies [21:16] *Arnelos* Trip - how soon will GWT get past the chokepiont with significant Ansar force? [21:16] *WhiteBandit* just 1 turn longer [21:16] *E_T* if anything, we should let CGN consider this tactic, while they still have the save [21:17] *Trip* if GWT goes full speed, then probably 4 turns [21:17] *E_T* one turn might make all of the difference, WB [21:17] *Arnelos* can CGN get their muskets in place by then? What chance is there that GWT will NOT go full force? [21:17] *WhiteBandit* e [21:17] *WhiteBandit* if they are past the front lines it won't matter [21:17] *WhiteBandit* CGN won't be able to produce enough musketman in 1, 2 or 5 turns to counter dozens of ansar in their homeland [21:18] *Arnelos* let's consider the chokepoint issue first, shall we? [21:18] *Arnelos* Will GWT go "full force", as Trip calls it? Why might they not? [21:18] *WhiteBandit* i think they'll throw everything they have at cgn [21:18] *WhiteBandit* they are strong to them [21:18] *WhiteBandit* the only reason they may stop is when things are average again [21:19] *WhiteBandit* then they'd fall back, prepare for perhaps a counter attack or just regroup [21:19] *Arnelos* so you think they charge wih the Ansars without regard to their low (2) defense value (no slow-mover support)? [21:19] *WhiteBandit* they know they have the offensive advantage [21:19] *WhiteBandit* as was evidenced by the weak attack CGN carried out against them before this whole mess [21:19] *Trip* they killed 10 CGN Knights and know that about 50 other units jumped home [21:19] *Trip* I think them pushing forward with just Ansar is a good possibility [21:20] *Trip* all they have to do is capture Agincourt [21:20] *Arnelos* do they really have 50 Ansar??? where is this figure coming from? [21:20] *MasterZen* who said 50 ansar?? [21:21] *Trip* hold on [21:21] *WhiteBandit* i initially said 50+ way up there [21:21] *E_T* one thing that ND had going for them in the war against RP was the terrain [21:21] *Trip* 4how do we know GWT even has CGN's map? [21:21] *WhiteBandit* it was a facetious number :P [21:21] *Trip* GWT may not even see that damn city pop up [21:21] *Trip* they may not even know what CGN looks like [21:22] *Trip* you're all basing this upon the fact that you think that they can see what we can see [21:22] *Trip* - fact + assumption [21:22] *Trip* rather [21:22] * Togas is now known as TogasAFK [21:22] *Arnelos* ok... as best as we know, GWt only has about 30 Ansars... many of which were wounded [21:22] *Trip* many = 8 :P [21:22] *E_T* True, but if GCN has as much map of GWT, isn't likely that GWT has about the same of CGN? [21:22] *Trip* and they'll be full HP next turn [21:23] *Trip* E_T: not necessarily... there are two chokepoints and the reason CGN got GWT's map was because of Firaxis' very early scouting [21:23] *Arnelos* ok, so you think they charge full... what chance is there that they will be cautious... is there anything we can do that would encourage them to be more cautious than they otherwise would be? (psychological warfare) [21:24] *E_T* deceptions [21:24] *E_T* i.e. Potemkin [21:24] *Arnelos* yes... but what would actually slow them down? E_T's suggestion would SPEED THEM UP [21:24] *Arnelos* they'd race for that city as fast as they possibly could [21:25] *Arnelos* we want to make them cautious [21:25] *E_T* If it speeds them up, to where their ansars are vulnerable, it could leave them hanging [21:25] *Trip* bah [21:25] *Arnelos* muskets suck on attack [21:25] *E_T* that could be a huge tactical mistake [21:25] *Trip* GWT has at least 2x CGN's Knights [21:25] *Arnelos* their Ansars will not be that vulnerable as long as CGN has nothing in terms of a knight force [21:26] *Arnelos* CGN has to make good on those muskets... which means forcing the Ansars to attack them... only place they can do that effectively is the chokepoint [21:27] *Arnelos* the thing that would slow GWT down is to believe that there was still a large CGN knight force out there somewhere [21:27] *Arnelos* one which does not actually exist, of course [21:27] *E_T* where they will have all of their other forces to contend with [21:27] *Trip* 4miccofl told me that GWT hasn't seen much of CGN's map [21:27] *Arnelos* that's good... maybe they will be a bit more cautious because of all of the black space... who knows [21:28] *Trip* because of that, a Potemkin is probably not a good idea :P [21:28] *E_T* what about the central desert?? did they possibly get that area from Grenolli before they were destroyed?? [21:28] *Arnelos* somehow, we need to find a way to convince GWT that CGN still has a significant Knigh force... a fear of CGN knights will keep GWT's Ansars back with their slow-movers [21:29] *Trip* I believe Grenouille was destroyed before they or GWT got Map Making, but there's no way of knowing [21:30] *Trip* Arne: if CGN had had a significant Knight force, they would have destroyed GWT's Ansar stack by now :P [21:30] *Arnelos* I know [21:30] *Arnelos* this is the problem [21:30] *Arnelos* yet somehow we need to convince GWT that that was only a small piece of their knight force [21:31] *Trip* ideas? :P [21:31] *Arnelos* that CGN was stupid and their rest of their knights are behind the chokepoint? [21:31] *Arnelos* somehow we need to get this idea in GWT's head [21:31] *Arnelos* public RP might help slightly [21:32] *E_T* no, it would raise too many flags that CGN is covering up a major problem [21:33] *E_T* If there hasn't been any public RP before now, it would stand out way too much [21:33] *Arnelos* some nonsensical public RP post that makes far too many references to CGN *riding* to battle on horseback to face GWT. bongo understands enough English. [21:33] *Arnelos* perhaps E_T is right [21:33] *Arnelos* E_T... not necessarily, though... this is a major war [21:33] *Arnelos* CGN may be defeated... it could be their last gasp [21:34] *Arnelos* GWT may think themselves clever to move slowly with their slow-movers... guaranteeing a CGN defeat through OVERWHELMING FORCE [21:34] *E_T* lets get into chat with Miccofl and go over this [21:34] *E_T* and maybe SL3 [21:34] *Arnelos* We want GWT's military strategy to be to move all of their units together, in one enormous stack of doom, and LAY SIEGE to the chokepoints [21:35] *E_T* Look, all they have to do, is get enough units behind the chokepoint to start rampaging though the country [21:35] *Arnelos* yes, but we want GWT to believe that this would be rash... too risky... why do that when they can win ANYWAYS by the more assured route of moving everything together? [21:36] *Trip* I told miccofl to move a Pike into Agincourt [21:36] *Arnelos* then once they are beyond the chokepoint, THEN their ansars go crazy [21:36] *Trip* that way a Pike shows up in case GWT sees... they won't know how many Pikes they have there, in addition to any Knights and other units [21:36] *Arnelos* right [21:37] *Arnelos* you know... does Agincourt have a barracks? [21:37] *Trip* no [21:37] *Arnelos* damn [21:37] *Trip* but I believe they're building one now, and are going to rush it soon [21:37] *Arnelos* what the hell has CGN been building over there? [21:37] *Trip* FP [21:37] *Arnelos* :sigh: [21:37] *Trip* switched to a Lib not too long ago [21:37] *Arnelos* right [21:37] *Trip* rushed that a couple turns ago [21:37] *Trip* now a Barracks [21:37] *Arnelos* they really had no idea GWT was going to attack them??? [21:38] *Trip* I'm guessing they though they could hold New Castle and Boston [21:38] *E_T* You know, we are working with noobs who seem to only play against the AI [21:38] *Arnelos* yes, we know [21:38] *E_T* likely more Civ2 than 3, too [21:39] *Arnelos* the lack of catapults :weep: [21:39] *MasterZen* bah, cats are worthless against ansar [21:39] *Arnelos* it's as though they've never played SMAC/SMAC, either [21:39] *Arnelos* *SMAC/SMAX [21:39] *E_T* you know, if we "loan" them that money for their upgrades, we will not likely see it again [21:39] *MasterZen* it's better than not loaning it... [21:39] *MasterZen* money we can recover. CGN we can't. [21:39] *Trip* depends on when GWT bears down [21:39] *Arnelos* E_T, determining whether the loan is worth it is why we need to know how fast GWT will advance [21:39] *Arnelos* xpost [21:40] *Trip* if GWT does wait for their slowmovers, then we have enough time to stop them at the chokepoints [21:40] *Trip* 720g = 12 Muskets [21:40] *Trip* plus ~5 of their own [21:40] *Trip* 17 Muskets before GWT can even attack [21:40] * Trip thinks that would make a profound difference... [21:40] *E_T* well, if GWT continues to go the way that I'm thinking that they will, I give CGn 10 turns until total defeat

	03-03-2004 11:16									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Part 2:

quote: [21:40] *Arnelos* Trip - where would the stack go... there are, actually, TWO chokepoints [21:41] *E_T* did you not see those 3 galleys in the waters, what do you think is on them and where do you think they are going?? [21:41] *Arnelos* if CGN places their whole stack at one and GWT elects to just slip by to the other, CGN is still ****ed [21:42] * Kloreep has quit IRC (Excess Flood ) [21:43] * Kloreep has joined #apolytonisdg [21:43] *E_T* IMHO, they will land on that jungle tile that is 9-9 of Perris and found a city [21:43] *E_T* which will then give them access to CGN's back yard [21:44] *Arnelos* E_T - that tile is within even slow-mover striking distance of Agincourt [21:44] *Arnelos* I'd bet further West [21:44] *Arnelos* if they can manage it [21:44] *Trip* Arne: 8 Muskets each, fortified in cities on hills with the Wall bonus [21:44] *Arnelos* btw.. has miccofl sent us a not_save? [21:45] *Trip* no [21:45] *Trip* he's ready to send us the real one soon :P [21:45] *Arnelos* Trip - against 30 Ansar, 20+ MI, and (for what it matters) ~12 catapults? [21:45] *Trip* since I just told him to forget the fake saltpeter city [21:45] *E_T* Yes, but If your advancing at the same time onto Agincourt's fron door, what are your tactical options, leave the door lightly protected to get the landing group or ignore the landing?*? [21:45] *Arnelos* Trip - GWT only has to beat ONE OF THE TWO stacks and the rest of CGN is history [21:45] *Trip* CGN also has more than those Muskets [21:46] *Trip* they have ~15 Knights and after the Muskets they'll have another ~16 Pikes [21:46] *Arnelos* ok [21:46] *Trip* 8 Muskets, 8 Pikes, 8 Knights per city [21:46] *Arnelos* not AS bad [21:46] *Arnelos* the knights are the critical addition [21:46] *Arnelos* GWT busts one of the two stacks... CGN hits GWT victorious stack with knights [21:46] *Trip* a vet Ansar has a 11.7% chance of defeating a Musket in one of the cities [21:46] *E_T* and again, that fake city might just delay them enought for CGN to consolidate [21:47] *Arnelos* thing is... GWT could just do hit-and-runs... using their pikes to keep CGN knights from counter-attacking the Ansars... GWT wins a war of attritrion [21:47] *Trip* CGN will be getting Sipahis eventually [21:48] *Trip* and CGN will also be building more Knights [21:48] *E_T* well, we should tell CGN to send a settler out on a galley [21:48] *Arnelos* another problem.... CGN builds a city at the southern chokepoint... builds a wall... GWT has what? 12 catapuls? [21:48] *Arnelos* bye bye city wall [21:48] *E_T* because they will need it [21:48] *Trip* Arne: everything takes time [21:48] *Trip* 4miccofl sending the save in 2 minutes [21:49] *E_T* 14 cats [21:49] *Trip* CGN will have 14 Muskets in place in FOUR turns [21:50] *Trip* GWT slowmover stack has another ~8 turns to arrival [21:50] *Trip* I also suggested that CGN cut its iron [21:50] *E_T* tell Miccofl to bend down and kiss his ass good bye.... [21:50] *Trip* if you read my chat with him [21:50] *Trip* when they cut their iron... [21:50] *Trip* and build up gold with that strong economy of theirs... [21:50] *Trip* they have enough gold for ~2 Knights per turn [21:50] *E_T* ****, they should have cut their Iron ages ago [21:50] *Trip* they wanted to get Muskets... [21:51] *Arnelos* yes [21:51] * Trip sets mode: +o Kloreep [21:51] *Trip* which WILL do more for them, if they can get them to the chokepoints fast enough [21:51] *E_T* the muskets don't need Iron, only SP [21:51] *Trip* frankly, CGN couldn't have outproduced GWT in fastmovers, even if they do cut their iron [21:51] *Trip* CGN tried for the technological edge... if GWT delays, it will pay off [21:51] *Trip* Muskets VS. Ansar... CGN wins 9 times out of 10 [21:52] *Arnelos* on hills with city bonus [21:52] *E_T* and what about 14 cats, 20 MI and Ansar Vs Muskets?? [21:52] *Trip* again [21:52] *Trip* CGN has more than those Muskets [21:53] *E_T* and if they go around, which they will do [21:53] *Arnelos* the cats won't do much against Agincourt... they will be effective against a smaller city with a wall, though... but only really for knocking down the wall... they will suck for hittings muskets on hills [21:53] *Trip* I have faith that 8 Musket, 8 Pike, 8 Knight and 6 MI can hold [21:53] *Trip* E_T: CGN has a big-ass navy [21:53] * BigFree has joined #apolytonISDG [21:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree [21:53] * BigFree sets mode: +psnk bigpower [21:53] *E_T* If I was CGN, I would send as many workers to clog up the beachs as possible [21:54] *E_T* we have discussed this in the Army vs navy thread, we wouldn't be effective against a landing attempt, what makes CGN different in that respect [21:54] *E_T* hey BF [21:55] *BigFree* Hola [21:55] *BigFree* 4 ISDG #4 to ET [21:55] *BigFree* 4 C3C TG #4 to ET [21:55] *Arnelos* E_T - lack of navigation [21:55] *Trip* 4 GWT has Invention! [21:56] *E_T* Well, I go on record saying that we should have had CGn use everything that we could think of, even the potemkin village, to help with this war [21:56] *E_T* we give it to CFC then [21:56] *Trip* yes [21:56] *BigFree* It's alwyas possible they stole it from us... 3: 9D 1 [21:57] *Trip* Agincourt's borders have expanded [21:57] *E_T* Oh, BF http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/ISDG/ResourceMap162.jpg [21:57] *Trip* 4GCA has landed their Pike again [21:58] *Kloreep* You mean spear? [21:58] *Trip* err [21:58] *Trip* yeah [21:58] *Kloreep* Now upgrading on a boat, that would be something [21:58] *BigFree* haha [21:59] *E_T* their big bad elite spear..... [21:59] *E_T* did we get peace?? [21:59] *Trip* yes [21:59] *Arnelos* YEAH!!! [21:59] *Arnelos* PARTY!!!! [21:59] *Trip* grrrr [21:59] *Trip* stupid MZ :P [21:59] *Kloreep* ? [21:59] *E_T* then we ignore it and just keep it from moving [21:59] *Arnelos* Trip - what? [22:00] *BigFree* wow, CGN only has one source or SP! [22:00] *BigFree* we have 3! [22:00] *E_T* did he forget to move a unit? [22:00] *Arnelos* 4E_T - you have FAM 4 [22:00] *Trip* I ask him if he replays the turn exactly as he stated... "of course" he says... [22:00] *BigFree* I smell a CoC [22:00] *Trip* Knight E_T in Equil should have been going after that camp next to the GCA Spear [22:00] *Trip* should be 8 of the Spear [22:00] *E_T* Arnie, not I have ISDG #4, not FAM #4 [22:01] *MasterZen* what GCA spear? :P [22:01] *Arnelos* ok, that's not so bad [22:01] *MasterZen* there was no GCA spear :P [22:01] *Arnelos* E_T - MZ says he sent it to you... FAM 4 [22:01] *BigFree* Do we have the "not the save" save again? [22:01] *Trip* the Spear that's there now [22:01] * TogasAFK is now known as Togas [22:01] *Trip* no, the real save [22:01] *Trip* but we're not playing it now [22:01] *Arnelos* if you don't have it, it's likey your useless e-mail account... MZ, just post the damn thing at MZO so E_T can play it already [22:01] *Trip* we're waiting until 3pm EST tomorrow so that no one can be around when it's played [22:02] *BigFree* HAHA [22:02] *MasterZen* 4E_T, get a goddammed free e-mail acount!!!!!! [22:02] *BigFree* I did not get the save in my email this time [22:02] *BigFree* I wonder why... [22:02] *Arnelos* Trip - I suggest we wait longer than that on this one... the loans decision is.... RATHER CRITICAL [22:02] *Trip* we don't have to send it THIS TURN [22:02] *Trip* CGN doesn't have a Barracks yet [22:02] *MasterZen* I'm not going to start posting saves just because you can't spend 5 damn minutes and get a hotmail account [22:02] *Trip* we have at least 3 turns before the loan has to be sent [22:03] *Trip* we can be negotiating things with CGN in the meantime and hold a poll in a few days [22:03] *Trip* there's no need to hold the save for that issue [22:03] *WhiteBandit* hell [22:03] *WhiteBandit* i can give you a rockbandit account and you can use pop3 :P [22:03] *Arnelos* Trip - CGN's forces are IN TRANSIT to the front... what turn we do the loan on could be critical... we should ask them what turns would be more or less useful [22:04] *Trip* I will ask now [22:04] *Trip* HAHA (tm) [22:05] *Trip* 4we are now 1st in Approval Rating! [22:05] *E_T* Oh, kewl, one of the SP is right next to AP, more uncorrupted trade when we get the tech (and the Palace move) [22:05] *Arnelos* E_T - the SP is actually ON the Cathopolis tile [22:05] *Arnelos* *Catchopolis [22:05] *Arnelos* thankfully, Lucky never got the chance to use it [22:06] *BigFree* Do we know id CGN has a road on the SP yet? [22:06] *Arnelos* BF - yes, they do [22:06] *BigFree* sweet [22:06] *E_T* yes, but it's not on AP's, but is a tile that AP will be using heavily [22:06] *Trip* 1 extra gold :P [22:06] *Trip* but every bit helps [22:06] *BigFree* eitherway, its good [22:07] *E_T* CFC has 2 that I can see [22:08] *Trip* CGN has 1, CFC has 2, we have 3, GWT has 2 [22:08] *Trip* 4we are 2nd in Literacy! [22:08] *Trip* meaning, we have more Libs than GWT [22:09] *Trip* and we only have 4 :P [22:09] *E_T* we have more on the way [22:09] *Togas* that's good news [22:10] *E_T* Trip, we have 5 Libs,not 4 [22:10] *Trip* err, yeah, forgot about Hisp [22:11] *E_T* how does getting education effect that score?? [22:11] *WhiteBandit* 4fam5 to Arnelos [22:11] *Arnelos* nice [22:11] *Trip* Arne: miccofl said that they just rushed a Barracks in Agincourt, and they can upgrade their units when they arrive there [22:11] *Trip* btw [22:11] *Trip* miccofl really liked the Potemkin idea [22:11] *E_T* if it's still there when they get there [22:11] *Trip* so they're building a Settler in Saxton to build it :P [22:12] *Arnelos* TRip - ok, good... that gives us time to decide [22:12] *Trip* they arrive in 3 turns [22:12] *Trip* I doubt GWT will capture the city in 3 turns :P [22:12] *E_T* well, the thing needs to be built before they have any upgrade, for the trick to work [22:12] *Trip* yes [22:12] *Trip* miccofl just said that [22:12] *Trip* *miccofl* the trick will be remembering not to upgrade Pvt. Dick until the red cardboard city is built [22:13] *E_T* they can name it fort stinking desert, in honor of the Firesign theater

	03-03-2004 11:23									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

By the way, I would appreciate it if people who read these could state so and possibly discuss some of the things that went on, so that we can all better judge the merit of the posting of the chats. Even if you only read parts of it, please say so.

	03-03-2004 14:32									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Ok, just a warning: if we put everyhing we say in the chatroom, 90% of it will be: - WhiteBandit, Arnelos and MZ's love life (or lack thereof) - Togas' daily demand: Play the FAM! (in reference to the FAM's neverending series of PBEMs which one of us always forgets to play or send... usually me) - E_T's e-mail/router/cable/computer problems. - Kloreep's "HI™" of death. (Panzer32 already died because of it) - The world famous Trip jokes.

And for everything else important, there is The Observer

Are there any other journalists here who like to help me writing serious articles from a completely objective point of view?

Aidun

	13-03-2004 11:49									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Some banter in the chatroom about GWT charging CGN at the chokepoints with 29 Ansar Warriors:

quote: BigFree> Trip: Wasn't CGN supposed to put a city 3-3-2 of Agincourt to prevent GWT from bypassing Waterloo? BigFree> If GWT goes around Waterloo, CGN is dead meat BigFree> Their core is exposed Arnelos> BF - yes, and CGN is apparently dead meat because that city is not down yet BigFree> Do they need gold for rushes now as well? Trip> they're going to... in a couple turns :P BigFree> What can we do now to help Trip> didn't get it down in time Trip> there's nothing we can do now BF Arnelos> BF - depends... if they're going to get wrecked anyhow, we'll just save our money Trip> the only way CGN can stop GWT is if they could seal them off at the chokepoints and get 8-10 Muskets in each city Trip> if/when they get past the perimeter, they'll slice through CGN like warm butter conmcb25> When are we doing the loan? conmcb25> When are they done with GP? Arnelos> con - they have it conmcb25> OK conmcb25> what about the loan? Arnelos> the problem is that their entire army is still marching toward the front conmcb25> How far away? Arnelos> I think a few turns away still conmcb25> Can they get there in time? Arnelos> they're screwed conmcb25> **** Arnelos> this is because they jumped them back to Aarhus Arnelos> dumb dumb dumb dumb Trip> GWT can attack Agincourt this turn, or get through the other chokepoint next turn conmcb25> so what do we do now? Trip> they can't get their units into Agincourt for another 2 turns Trip> con: there's not really much we can do at this point :\ Trip> other than hope GWT stalls for some reason Trip> we can throw all the money that we have at CGN and it won't help when GWT is past the chokepoints with their 30 Ansar Trip> right now they're 9-9 of Agincourt Arnelos> CGN's only prayer is if the sight of a musket in Agincourt spooks GWT enough to wait for their slow movers... with 30 Ansar, I sorta doubt it Trip> GWT saw the Muskets last turn Arnelos> ok Arnelos> well, CGN can still turtle Arnelos> build knights while they're going down conmcb25> Is ShadowLord any good? conmcb25> Or are these guys just going to give up? Trip> most of the team doesn't care any more Trip> between the recent exploits issue Trip> and this conmcb25> I would turtle like crazy and make GWT pay pay pay pay conmcb25> OK BigFree> CGN still has a chance if GWT tries to go the AginCourt. Or if CGN gets that city 3-3-2 of Agincoourt in place and gets about 8-10 pikes with at least 4 Muskets in it as well. BigFree> I guess it really all depends on whta GWT does Arnelos> if GWT charges EITHER chokepoint, it could be over BigFree> But, it's looking more and more like the unit warp was a bad idea, a does the cutiing of the roads which would have allowed CGN to withdraw to Agincourt and the Southern Choke before GWT. Trip> yeah Trip> it was plain stupid WhiteBandit> cgn is gonna die! WhiteBandit> nice! Arnelos> ? conmcb25> You best believe bongo knows EXACTLY how many turns those slow movers take from Arhus to chokepoint Arnelos> well, miccofl will never taunt Apolyton again for being the "last place team" at least conmcb25> He is going to attack next turn Arnelos> if he has the brain god gave him, yes conmcb25> hey Im pretty stupid and I could figure that out conmcb25> **** conmcb25> we better finish that REX soon conmcb25> Navigation is right around the corner Trip> for us Trip> GWT doesn't even have Theology yet :P conmcb25> really? conmcb25> Hmmmmm conmcb25> We still better finish that REX soon Trip> we're building 9 cities in the next 5 turns :P conmcb25> I know conmcb25> But if there is not going to be a loan conmcb25> Then we can rush build conmcb25> Does anyone knoiw furloaf at CGN? Trip> yes conmcb25> Is he a good guy? conmcb25> or a spaz? conmcb25> here is what he just said conmcb25> This maybe the guy we want to work with: conmcb25> conmcb25_AlmostBeddieByTime> I think you guys should stick it out conmcb25> conmcb25_AlmostBeddieByTime> Go turtle and make GWT pay conmcb25> Furloaf> I do too conmcb25> conmcb25_AlmostBeddieByTime> And if it gets really bad we got a cozy corner for you over by us conmcb25> Furloaf> Personally I think threatening to quit the game is very immature conmcb25> Furloaf> Makes us look like crying babies when the game gets tough Trip> he's good conmcb25> what about shadow lord? Trip> yes conmcb25> Is he good as well? Trip> yes WhiteBandit> hmm conmcb25> Hmmm, maybe a change is what they needed then WhiteBandit> posing a random question... why should we help CGN and donate them a city if worst comes to worst? conmcb25> miccofl was burnt out WhiteBandit> will them having 2 or 3 cities even help the outcome of the game at all? Kloreep> WB: Free tech in the ind conmcb25> for the deciding UN vote Kloreep> Plus a vote for us in the UN Kloreep> x-post conmcb25> and the free tech WhiteBandit> but vote is based on population conmcb25> nope Kloreep> WB: No, that's candidacy Kloreep> Votes are one per civ conmcb25> 1 civ = 1 vote WhiteBandit> ah conmcb25> xpost Kloreep> Who is up for vote is where pop matters conmcb25> me and klo have been doing that tonight Kloreep> conmcb25> Thats why we buiold it conmcb25> Trip Trip> ? conmcb25> What should they do with 10 knights in or around agincourt right now? conmcb25> fortify? conmcb25> or withdraw? BigFree> Fortify them conmcb25> Thats what I would do Trip> probably

	13-03-2004 11:55									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thank god for autocensor.

The sailor was coming out in me tonight.

BF can relate to that

	13-03-2004 22:53									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Chats with other teams should go into FA corresdonce, not this thread. This thread is for internal chats.

EDIT: The CGN chatlogs have been moved to FA Correspondence

Last edited by Arnelos on 13-03-2004 at 23:04

	04-04-2004 17:06									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

Chat mainly between myself and E_T about 12 hours ago. We were talking ABOUT CGN while I was talking TO CGN in the CGN embassy chat room:

Link to chatlog with CGN in FA:Correspondences Thread, that we are commenting on here

quote: [19:50] <@E_T> 4 Perris fell [19:51] * ChanServ sets mode: +o conmcb25 [19:51] <@conmcb25> Thtas not surprising [19:52] <@conmcb25> Did you see that pile of pikemen [19:52] <@conmcb25> That they let the Siphai cut the road on? [19:53] <@E_T> [19:46] [E_T> any word on Perris? [19:53] <@E_T> [19:47] [miccofl> fell [19:53] <@E_T> [19:49] [miccofl> there was talk about upgrading some horsemen to knights, but I think we are about 280 short [19:53] <@E_T> they do NOT know how to run a war [19:54] <@conmcb25> [19:54] <@conmcb25> Who chated with miccofl? [19:54] <@E_T> personally, I'll be surprised if they are still here to get that one city from us [19:54] <@Arnelos> well, crud... be back later [19:54] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY [19:55] <@conmcb25> by arnelos [19:55] <@E_T> I'm in chat with him right now [19:55] <@conmcb25> at there chat room? [19:55] <@E_T> they have just started playing their turn [19:55] <@conmcb25> Ill be right there [19:56] <@E_T> BF has instructions for getting there: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...503#post2816503 [19:57] <@E_T> and they likely took it entact [19:59] <@E_T> well, should we give them more money?? [20:00] <@E_T> we should have around 250 next turn [20:00] <@conmcb25> Thats for the team to decide [20:00] <@conmcb25> Im just a mouth peice [20:00] <@conmcb25> [20:00] <@E_T> Personally, it would be wasted [20:01] <@E_T> although, you can ask him about the libs and such [20:02] <@conmcb25> Yes [20:02] <@E_T> any libs should not be sold if the city is about to go up culturally, but if it's a long time coming, then they should be sold off [20:03] <@E_T> they are smoking some heavy seaweed [20:03] <@E_T> [20:00] [miccofl> Hoovers would be nice about now [20:03] <@conmcb25> Tell me about it [20:03] <@E_T> they would still lose [20:03] <@conmcb25> yep [20:05] <@conmcb25> They just dont get it do they? [20:05] <@E_T> maybe it;s his team mates [20:06] <@conmcb25> I dont think he is the sharpest knife in the drawer either [20:06] <@E_T> hehe [20:06] <@conmcb25> He lest his emotions rule his decisions.... [20:06] <@conmcb25> lets [20:06] <@E_T> got the gust [20:06] <@Nuclear_Winter> [quick queastion] is miccofl´s team still pulling the settler in galley trick? [20:06] <@conmcb25> I dont know [20:07] <@E_T> we hope that they will, look at that link I had posted, I have something to say about that right below where it takes you to [20:08] <@conmcb25> In the CGN diplomthread right? [20:08] <@conmcb25> Problem is though they haven't faced facts yet. [20:08] * MasterZen has joined #apolytonisdg [20:08] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen [20:08] <@E_T> ****, we told them several times, about the multiple Iron cuttings of GWT, even while we were at war with GCA and they didn;t listen then [20:08] <@conmcb25> They are still in denial about getting there buts kicked [20:09] * E_T changes topic to 'Perris has fallen, CGN is doomed' [20:10] <@E_T> they will likely have to poll about that [20:10] <@conmcb25> :rollseyes: [20:10] <@conmcb25> [20:11] <@conmcb25> How much cash do you get for selling a library? [20:11] <@E_T> not much, but it's the GPT that really matters [20:12] <@E_T> 10 gold per Lib [20:12] <@conmcb25> and 1 gold to maintain right? [20:13] <@E_T> 7 per Temple, but that should stay, unless they don;t need it for happiness [20:13] <@E_T> yep [20:14] <@conmcb25> 7 per temple what? [20:14] <@conmcb25> A temple is only 1 GPT? Isn't it? [20:14] <@conmcb25> For maintenance [20:15] <@E_T> yep [20:15] <@E_T> All of the lower level items are 1 GPT for maintainance [20:16] <@conmcb25> Its 10 culture [20:16] <@conmcb25> Then a hundred [20:16] <@E_T> Ohh, Intel, 15 libs [20:17] <@conmcb25> Then a thousand to increase the culture ring, right? [20:17] <@E_T> every culture level is orders of 10 [20:17] <@E_T> 10, 100, 1000, 10000 [20:17] <@conmcb25> Ok thats what I thought [20:18] <@E_T> so, if a city is at 980, don't sell, but if it;s at 900, sell, because it won;t be there to help you when that time comes.... [20:19] <@E_T> You know, we really need to start drafting what we will expect of them, for the rescue [20:19] <@conmcb25> Yes [20:20] <@conmcb25> We do [20:20] <@E_T> especially if we find land to our NW and help to set them up there [20:20] <@conmcb25> yes [20:20] <@conmcb25> how many tirns until navigation? [20:20] <@conmcb25> approximate? [20:20] <@conmcb25> turns [20:20] <@E_T> because, if there is land up there (and I feel it in me bones), then it Might be a good jump off point to attack GWT's northern coast (and the Pyramids) [20:21] <@conmcb25> he he [20:21] <@conmcb25> I love the way you think my friend [20:21] <@E_T> Nav, approx 40 [20:21] <@conmcb25> [20:21] <@conmcb25> Jeez [20:21] <@E_T> If we do all of the other techs first [20:22] <@E_T> thing is, WE need to be ready for our offencive (if we go for it) [20:22] <@E_T> but astro is all we need to follow that sea lane [20:22] <@conmcb25> True [20:22] <@conmcb25> Ah yes [20:22] <@conmcb25> How many turns until astro? [20:22] <@E_T> so, again, slow and steady wins our race [20:22] <@E_T> 9 turns after Palace move [20:23] <@conmcb25> palce in two? [20:23] <@conmcb25> or three? [20:23] <@conmcb25> palace [20:24] <@E_T> 3, when we get this save and play it, then it will be 2 afterwards [20:24] <@conmcb25> OK [20:24] <@E_T> 550AD [20:24] <@conmcb25> We need to post this chat as well as he CGN chat tonight [20:24] <@E_T> turn 171 [20:24] <@conmcb25> And I think Im running for consel [20:24] <@conmcb25> Im more active than MZ [20:24] <@E_T> and Astro is turn 180 [20:25] <@conmcb25> OK [20:25] <@E_T> Rememberance is turn 176 [20:41] <@conmcb25> E_T I need you at CGN [20:41] <@conmcb25> Feasibilty of a four settler/galley suicide run to our side of the world [20:41] <@conmcb25> Thanks [20:44] <@conmcb25> Should I bring up astro in 10 turns? [20:44] <@conmcb25> E_T? [20:44] <@conmcb25> actually 12 turns after this? [20:45] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> thing is, we are going to be sticling to our tech denial policy, so until GWT/GCA gets it, no one else does [20:46] <@conmcb25> so what should I tell them about it? [20:46] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> or we just as well give them the game, because we also have to give them education to get astro [20:46] * @conmcb25 stares at the two consuls present [20:47] <@Nuclear_Winter> eck! A consul! helpp! [20:47] <@conmcb25> How is that giving them the game? [20:47] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> the thing is, for all of our plans to work, properly, we have to stay the course in this matter [20:47] <@conmcb25> Starting with 4 settlers in the mid to late medevil age isn't exactly optimal. [20:48] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> we warned them, we game them money, we tryed to tell them what they needed to do, and they ignored it all [20:48] <@conmcb25> So waht are you saying? [20:48] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> do we want to jepardize our lead and future because of these idiots>? [20:48] <@conmcb25> Not to give them refuge? [20:49] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> we will be having a city for them, but that's all we can do at this point, without jepardising everything we are working for over the next 40 to 60 turns [20:49] <@conmcb25> But once they are our vasals we will be giving them techs correct? [20:50] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> It's hard, but then, so what, they will be alive [20:50] <@conmcb25> So they can keep up? [20:50] <@conmcb25> So we can get the free tech in the IA? [20:50] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> we will still be giving them the techs, When we know that GWT/GCA has them [20:51] <@conmcb25> OK [20:51] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> and when we get to that point, then we will likely get them all of them at once, [20:51] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> but then, that is 60 turns away (and after our GA) [20:51] <@conmcb25> back to CGN E_T [20:52] <@conmcb25> I need you there [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [20:56] [miccofl> we would rather try to "slog it accross the old fasoned way", but we will not turn down help from our friends when it is offered [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [20:56] [E_T> Plus, we have a possibility that we still have to check out, but really is still to early to go into further [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [20:57] * miccofl likes to think that there are always possibilities [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [20:57] * E_T just doesn't want to get your hopes up too much, is all [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [20:59] * miccofl has to laugh at the irony (implied and unknown) in that thought [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [21:00] [E_T> but, when we get that city built, we are prepaired to gift it to you at that time [21:03] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> [21:00] [miccofl> if we aren't ready, could you build a bank? [21:05] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> I think the Irony part is the fact of how much he snubbed us because of our low score [21:06] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> and how the tables are now turned, so to speak [21:06] <@MasterZen> they played a bad game of civ, that's all I can say... [21:07] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> they did a very poor job, of not only the civ part, but the human interaction part [21:08] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> being able to react to information, freely given, on the capabilities and intentions of a rival is a part of THIS game [21:10] <@E_T_holding_CGNs_hand> ignoring that information AND suggestions on what to do to counter it, in a timely fashion IS NOT this game [21:14] * E_T_holding_CGNs_hand is now known as E_T_playing_PBEM [21:19] <@conmcb25> Here here [21:20] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> well, it's after 9PM, so unless we get that save very, very soon, it will be tommorrow before we play it [21:20] <@conmcb25> yep [21:20] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> NW, are you on the save mailing list? [21:21] <@conmcb25> Lets go back to giving them astro and the tech research plan [21:21] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> I am entirely against that [21:21] <@conmcb25> IF GWT has astro and then we do why wouldn't we give it to them to help the exodus? [21:22] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> we have a tech lead, we are working to keep that lead, while we get going towards Ind [21:22] <@conmcb25> Ok but you are not answering my question [21:22] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> we are working to make GWT/GCA pay as much as they can to catch up [21:22] <@conmcb25> I understand but you still aren';t answering the question [21:22] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> it's the same discussion, because they are all interlinked [21:23] <@conmcb25> OK but if we and GWT have it, then whats the effect? [21:24] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> If GWT/GCA gets any tech, that we (or for that matter, CGN or CFC) has, then it gets passed around at that time [21:24] <@conmcb25> OK [21:24] <@conmcb25> I get it it I do. [21:25] <@conmcb25> But GWT is probably sticking to the bottom rung for obvious reasons [21:25] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> so, at this time, we have education and CGN has Gunpowder [21:25] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> Also theo, IIRC [21:25] <@conmcb25> So they wont get to astro (GWT) for a while [21:26] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> all 3 of us has Theo, so, if they (GWT/GCA) does a real research rate, it will be cheap [21:26] <@conmcb25> I understand [21:27] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> so, for us to give CGN astro, we will be cheapening both education and astro for GWT/GCA [21:28] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> which, could also give them Nav sooner than we are ready for them to have it, i.e. our military preparations, incase they want to invade [21:28] <@conmcb25> OK I got it [21:28] <@conmcb25> and it will be a while before GWT has astro [21:29] * @E_T_playing_PBEM hopes he's not trying to hammer this home to Con..... atleast not too much [21:30] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> especially, if they are going the Mil Trad route, like we think that they are [21:30] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> but that is still a very expencive tech route [21:30] <@conmcb25> I guess it will depend on how long and how difficult the war is. [21:31] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> and, with this plan I have, we will actually have all of the upper ones and beat them to MT [21:31] <@conmcb25> E_T, when was the last time I DIDN'T back one of your plans? [21:31] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> hehe [21:32] <@conmcb25> I got on the Monarchy/ HG bandwagon with you. [21:32] <@conmcb25> You pissed off Dom so much he quit Civ :wink: [21:32] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> I just wasn't sure that your had realized the intracasies and interlocking relationships of all of them... [21:32] <@conmcb25> I understand [21:33] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> I don;t think he had quit over me... [21:33] <@conmcb25> But not as well as you. [21:33] <@conmcb25> I know, Im teasing [21:33] <@conmcb25> hence the :wink: [21:33] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> plus, I started a small PM campain to get some people back involved in that [21:34] <@conmcb25> I know :wink: [21:34] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> when was the last time that you had seen GodKing post in our forum? [21:34] <@conmcb25> its been a while [21:34] <@conmcb25> He is a handy guy to have helping though [21:35] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> yes he is, he really put a good spin on my plan [21:35] <@conmcb25> Yep [21:39] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> You know, we have 6 (soon 7) cities that are possibilities for Iron Works in this game?? [21:40] <@conmcb25> Really? Thats cool! [21:40] <@conmcb25> all down south? [21:40] <@conmcb25> Iron works cities? [21:40] <@conmcb25> wait how do you know that? [21:40] <@conmcb25> Coal isn't until the next age? [21:41] <@conmcb25> Or are you assuming with all our jungle we HAVE to have it somewhere? [21:41] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> AP (which also has Saltpeter on a river time, mucho trade), Solace, Lumentius Bananais, HoD, Tripoli, Dominus and one of the northern cities still to be built [21:42] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> these are cities with Iron [21:42] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> and coal can be in hills and mountains, too [21:43] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> so, all of these cities have the possibility for getting the requirements for IW [21:44] * @E_T_playing_PBEM thinks that we will have more than 1 to chose from when we get to that time [21:44] <@conmcb25> In PtW you are probably correct. [21:46] <@conmcb25> GA is tail end of Medevil age? [21:47] <@conmcb25> Mid [21:48] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> yeps [21:48] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> we should be finishing both about the same time [21:49] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> if not into Ind before we are done [21:49] <@conmcb25> Finish GA and Midevil? [21:50] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> around that time, as I said, likely last few turns of GA WILL be Ind [21:50] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> and that is still keeping the tech rate that I have been proposing [21:50] * @E_T_playing_PBEM is GOOD.... [21:52] <@MasterZen> j00 5u>< :P [21:53] <@E_T_playing_PBEM> ??

Ill get this cleaned up later today.

[EDIT by E_T] Cleaned up SPAM and fixed quotes[/edit]

Thanks E_T - con

	04-04-2004 22:38									#22
	Put an end to popups!

Summery of above posted chat:

One thing that was discussed and then rejected, was gifting Astro to CGN, when we get it in 12 turns (with 520AD save), but was rejected, because of the reducing of the tech costs to GWT/GCA. This could be very disaterous at this point in time, with our long range plans.

Also talked about Possible NW landmass, CGN settling it and using as a jump off point (after Nav) for a thrust at GWT's Northern coast.

Talked about CGN needed money, told them to sell off Libs (they have 15 of them) for Cash and more GPT. We might want to send them an additional 100, that would atleast get them close to the amount needed for their Horse->Knights Upgrades they need.

Talked about Tech advancement, GA and Industrial Age things, like all of the possible canidates for Iron Works cities (7 total), when we get Coal and Industialization.

MoI E_T

	06-05-2004 09:38									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Speculation over GWT's response. Prospect of having CFC do a diversionary strike (since all our boats will be tied up with the actual hit on Rhurpott).

quote: [22:00] [conmcb25] Hmmm [22:00] [conmcb25] How many turns before we think GWT has astro? [22:00] * conmcb25 sets mode: +o Kloreep [22:00] [Sharpe-gaming] Night [22:00] * Sharpe-gaming has left #apolytonisdg [22:01] [Kloreep] They don't even have Theo, do they? [22:01] [Kloreep] It could take them a while if they don't go for Cav [22:01] [Kloreep] *if they do [22:01] [Trip] right [22:01] [Trip] they need to do Theology, then Education [22:01] [Trip] then they can start on Astronomy [22:04] [conmcb25] So how many turns? [22:04] [conmcb25] About? [22:04] [Kloreep] They aren't researching at all right now, I think [22:05] [Kloreep] Or weren't when we investigated that city [22:05] [Kloreep] So it depends on when they start again [22:05] [conmcb25] OK [22:05] [conmcb25] Once they start how many turns? [22:05] [conmcb25] Ballpark? [22:05] [Kloreep] At what slider %? [22:05] [conmcb25] We got any idea what the potential research rate is? [22:05] [Kloreep] Are we successful destroying their FP? [22:06] [conmcb25] Before the F-P. [22:06] * Kloreep throws a granary at Trip [22:06] [Kloreep] Trip? [22:06] [conmcb25] Max reasearch without deficet spending [22:06] [Trip] ? [22:06] [Kloreep] What's their beaker potential in your GWT sim? [22:06] [Trip] lower than us [22:06] [Trip] we're at like 160 BPT, they're at like 140 [22:06] [Trip] for the moment [22:09] [Arnelos] Kloreep - new slap [22:09] [Kloreep] Arnelos: Yep [22:09] [Kloreep] So... [22:10] [Kloreep] I think we can agree GWT will go for Nav once they realize we're willing to invade them [22:10] [Kloreep] Once they get it, how do we protect CFC from themselves? [22:10] * conmcb25 is now known as conmcb25_away [22:10] [Arnelos] heh [22:10] [Arnelos] good way to phrase that question [22:10] [Kloreep] (and from GWT ) [22:10] [Trip] part of the situation is weakening GWT [22:10] [Trip] so that that's less of a concern [22:11] [Trip] if we wait for GWT to come to us they WILL attack CFC and CFC WILL fall [22:11] [Kloreep] We'll have weakened their economy if the FP strike succeeds [22:11] [Kloreep] Not their military [22:11] [Kloreep] They'll still have Ansar left from the CGN war [22:11] [Kloreep] And galleys to upgrade [22:11] [Kloreep] And CFC, so far as I know, is pretty weak militarily even if they had strategic minds [22:13] [Kloreep] If we were in a position to weaken their military on the FP strike, that means they'd have a chunk of their military at Ruhrpott, and our mission might fail; so overall I hope our strike _doesn't_ hurt GWT's military too much [22:14] [Arnelos] taking out Ruhrpott could also buy us needed time until GWT can climb their way up to Navigation, though [22:15] [Kloreep] Yes, it would slow down their research [22:15] [Arnelos] not that they aren't already bee lining for it [22:15] [Kloreep] So hopefully they won't start their research again too soon [22:15] [Arnelos] right [22:15] [Kloreep] But again, it's going to happen _eventually_ [22:16] [Kloreep] I'm not optimistic about our chances of getting CFC with a rail network by then, though it could happen, especially if GWT's initial reprisal is against us [22:16] [Kloreep] And that would allow CFC to not need to worry so much [22:16] [Kloreep] They can group their units around wherever GWT lands [22:37] * Kloreep is now known as Kloreep|idle [22:50] * TogasLAKERS is now known as Togas [23:11] [Trip] meh [23:11] [Trip] we may be able to get off a second shot after this [23:13] [Kloreep|idle] Unless we can get off one that will destroy them, I think it would be better to focus on our own defense and development after this [23:14] [Trip] we could launch this attack and then hit them again during/after our GA [23:14] [Trip] our production will be greater than theirs [23:14] [Trip] and they got a long ways to go to get to Nav [23:15] [Trip] it's not as though 10 turns after we raze Ruhrpott that GWT will come a'knockin [23:15] [Trip] it'll be a devastating economic blow [23:15] [Arnelos] Trip - their defenses will be ready for us the second time [23:15] [Arnelos] they will have their military in their core, I'd bet [23:16] [Kloreep|idle] Probably [23:16] [Arnelos] especially with the FP core no longer useful [23:16] [Arnelos] this is a silver bullet [23:16] [Kloreep|idle] Again, unless we can get off the _final_ wave, which I doubt we can without Leo's, don't try it a second time [23:16] [Arnelos] we only get one [23:16] [Arnelos] We can only pull a surprise attack on one of their cores ONCE... after that, they'll be waiting for us with the bulk of their forces [23:16] [Trip] Arne: yes, but next time we'll have Galleons [23:16] [Trip] lots of Galleons [23:16] [Trip] and Cavalry [23:16] [Trip] lots of Cavalry [23:16] [Trip] it won't be just a raiding run [23:16] [Trip] we find an open tile to land on [23:17] [Trip] and slog our way through [23:17] [Trip] city by city [23:17] [Arnelos] yes. NEXT TIME we aren't going to try a surgical strike... next time, it's about elimination... [23:17] [Trip] until they're gone [23:17] [Kloreep|idle] Yes [23:17] [Kloreep|idle] The next time we land, it should be to wipe them out [23:17] [Arnelos] precisely [23:17] [Kloreep|idle] Not to hit any particular target [23:17] [Trip] I think we're all on the same page then [23:17] [Togas] of course, this time we land, it will be to wipe out as much as possible [23:17] [Kloreep|idle] Togas: If the Ansar can't come fast enough, yes [23:17] [Trip] with their FP gone and their economy damaged so much I think we can get our deathblow off before they could send an attack our way [23:17] [Kloreep|idle] But if we stay too long, they'll simply get enough Ansar back from CGN to rip into our stack [23:18] [Arnelos] actually, that's the part that needs answering... what is our "exit strategy" for this operation? [23:18] [Trip] Togas: the thing is that once we take out their FP NOTHING in the west is productive [23:18] [Trip] every city instantly becomes 95% corrupt [23:18] [Togas] they can rerush a FP [23:18] [Trip] yes, with a leader [23:18] [Trip] which we try to ensure they don't get [23:18] [Togas] not that hard for them to get a leader [23:18] [Arnelos] you know... I have an idea... [23:18] [Trip] which is why this is an in-and-out deal [23:18] [Trip] Togas: which is why we haven't gotten one yet? :P [23:18] [Togas] once their FP is gone, destroy every major city we can [23:19] [Togas] we haven't been in any meaningful combat [23:19] [Togas] :P [23:19] [Trip] we fought a major war [23:19] [Togas] no we didn't [23:19] [Trip] with the largest army that had ever been created up to that time [23:19] [Togas] we watched GCA disband as we marched up to them [23:19] [Trip] over 30 units were lost on each side Togas [23:19] [Trip] that's pretty major [23:19] [Arnelos] 4Once the FP is gone, we pull a massive retreat back to our boats and get the hell out of there to prevent them from getting leaders. Any straggler units are simply disbanded. If any of CGN is left, they disband their own cities to prevent leaders from being created. GWT can then only get a leader by attacking our mainland... and they don't have Navigation. [23:19] [Trip] that's more than the GWT-Firaxis war [23:19] [Togas] GWT lost that many in a single turn [23:19] [Trip] Arne: yes, I agree [23:20] [Trip] no hanging around, we don't need to give them any extra opportunities [23:20] [Togas] we won't need many muskets, then [23:20] [Arnelos] kill the FP, then get out [23:20] [Trip] nope [23:20] [Arnelos] Togas - I'm inclined to agree with you on that [23:20] [Togas] they're too slow and will hardly be of any use [23:20] [Trip] just enough to survive the initial onslaught [23:20] [Togas] yep [23:20] [Togas] send 5 [23:21] [Trip] well, we have a potential 33 units [23:21] [Arnelos] nice [23:21] [Togas] hell, we may not even want to waste a settler on this [23:21] [Trip] it helps us escape a turn faster [23:21] [Trip] and allows us to get units on boats a turn further away into the fray [23:21] [Kloreep|idle] Yes, I think the settler is a good idea still [23:22] [Arnelos] We can spare 1 settler [23:22] [Togas] you know what would be nice? [23:22] [Togas] if GWT thinks that we're coming to conquer [23:22] [Togas] and disbands roads/cities on their own [23:22] [Trip] hehe [23:22] [Togas] so that we can't have them [23:22] [Arnelos] oh, that would be awesome [23:22] [Trip] that'd be good [23:23] [Arnelos] but I sorta doubt it... we'll only be landing with ~30 units [23:23] [Arnelos] they'll know they can take the territory back [23:23] [Kloreep|idle] Maybe we have a second wave [23:23] [Togas] and if we build a city.... it's a signal of a commitment to the offensive [23:23] [Arnelos] even better... the name of the city [23:23] [Kloreep|idle] Yep [23:23] [Arnelos] my suggested op name... "Righteous Dawn"... it's only the beginning [23:24] [Trip] well [23:24] [Trip] the current proposed plan already calls for 2 waves [23:24] [Togas] why 2 waves? [23:24] [Trip] first wave has the Muskets and an equal number of Knights with the Settler [23:24] [Arnelos] true... but the second one is a long ways off [23:24] [Trip] second wave has the Knights right behind [23:24] [Arnelos] why not land the whole force at once? [23:24] [Trip] this allows us to hide more of our force and keep more of it out of danger [23:24] [Togas] ah, settler builds city, 2nd wave lands in city and immediately disembarks [23:24] [Kloreep|idle] Conserve Elite Knights [23:24] [Trip] right Togas [23:25] [Arnelos] :shrug: [23:25] [Trip] additionally, GWT may not know exactly what we have coming [23:25] [Togas] no lost time, and less intel for GWT [23:25] [Trip] and may underestimate our landing [23:25] [Arnelos] hmm.... [23:25] [Arnelos] I have an idea, then [23:25] [Togas] they may also over estimate it [23:25] [Arnelos] Trip - if your plan is to only land some units... it might be worth investing in a diversion elsewhere [23:25] [Trip] what do you mean? [23:25] [Arnelos] just boats [23:25] [Arnelos] a boat, even [23:25] [Trip] eh.... [23:25] [Arnelos] 1 boat [23:25] [Trip] we don't really have any to spare [23:25] [Togas] we need all the boats in 1 spot [23:25] [Arnelos] hmm... [23:25] [Trip] you're forgetting something though [23:25] [Trip] 4CFC [23:26] [Trip] they have boats [23:26] [Arnelos] true! [23:26] [Trip] at least 4 [23:26] [Trip] and they have units [23:26] [Arnelos] have CFC create the diversion [23:26] [Togas] riders [23:26] [Kloreep|idle] [23:26] [Trip] yes [23:26] [Arnelos] however, CFC needs to start their GA... but they also need to not give GWT any leaders [23:26] [Trip] I sent a long PM to DZ earlier today [23:26] [Trip] right [23:26] [Trip] it needs to be a very contained and controlled invasion/diversion by CFC [23:27] [Arnelos] CFC could land on that peninsula... take out a GWT city or two, then get the hell out [23:27] [Arnelos] it's so far away from GWT's main forces that they couldn't hope to counter [23:27] [Togas] nice [23:27] [Trip] so [23:27] [Trip] please post in the threads about ideas/brainstorms/concerns/etc. [23:27] [Trip] the more exposure the ideas and plans have the more people comment on them [23:28] [Trip] and the more who comment the better they get [23:28] [Kloreep|idle] I'll post this in the chat thread [23:28] [Trip]

Edit: Fixed tags. Thanks for pointing it out Arnelos