11-03-2004 03:18									#271
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Togas has it right: we need to get CGN to calm down a bit, try to keep them positive, yet try to be relatively realistic. This may be quite a balancing act.

As for Brian the Bold's comments... I just hope his views are not in the majority within CGN. I hope their team understands that they are up against a very capable opponent that long ago decided to crush them and has been working towards that end ever since, not a team of cheaters.

-Arrian

	11-03-2004 03:40									#272
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's funny, because CGN seems to be beginning to sound like... GCA! Your opponent played better than you? Impossible! They must have cheated or exploited something!

We should just lock those two teams in a room together and be done with it. But what if they bred...

	11-03-2004 03:47									#273
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The resultant creature would no doubt die from stupidity...

	11-03-2004 04:15									#274
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Aidun What CGN now experiences is the despair of a team that faces something they don't know how to deal with. They panic. It is not weariness id the game. And to be honest, I would be quite desperate too when I'd see 100 troops on my doorstep and know that in the following turns I can expect more to come. Aidun

We have all experienced this in the PTWDG, and most likely our own PBEM's.

The teams who have the biggest military losses always experience the highest levels of membership disinterest.
Once you know there is no hope, you just dont want to play it anymore.

In PTWDG, we can blame the exploiting, the smack talk, RL time constraints, but in reality, only the teams who who claim they have experienced the biggest loss of membership is RP, GS, and even Vox is down to their last few core players.

What we are seeing in this ISDG, is an exact duplicate of our PTWDG. CGN are going to get their ass whooped. CGN are blaiming everything else except their own lack of skill and letting themselves get outclassed.


Togas post is

What we need to do, if it looks like they want to leave the game, is to just get them to change their goals. They will not win the game... but dont they want to still have some say in who is going to win ?

(Just like how Lucky is working to allow GWT win the game)


They can do many things other than just give up.

Turtling is very effective...and very costly for an invading army to breach.

RP did it in PTWDG.
Vondrack did it in the Misfits PBEM. Turtled all the way back to 1 fortress city, that Beta could not breach.

Make GWT bleed and use every one of their 100 units to kill them.
Then, at the last minute, Apo gives them a safe city on another continent.


Or, CGN can switch everything to workers & gold. Gifting everything to us and CFC.


There are a variety of "goals" other than winning we must sell to CGN.

	11-03-2004 04:44									#275
	Put an end to popups!

Now that's in interesting job for Con to do.

Hey Con, don't forget to take a black suit with you, when you sail to Arhus, just in case you have to be at the funeral

Aidun

	11-03-2004 07:29									#276
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well in my case if you cant dazzle them with Brilliance, you have to baffle them with bull$hit

Ill start working on CGN, yesterday was not a good day for them.

It reminds me a bit of dealing with my kids

	11-03-2004 07:59									#277
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Just tell them, if they are going to get an ass whooping, then make sure they show a bit of spine and go down swinging.

Make it a bloody affair for GWT/GCA.
Make them fight for every inch of territory.
Make them waste as much resources as possible to finish you off.

	11-03-2004 08:24									#278
	Got spare money?

I think Togas has the right idea. We need to attempt to keep CGN's hopes up and do what we can to help them. If the time comes where they need to recognize their changed place within this game, we will be ready to discuss that with them.

For now, we need to help soften the enormous loss of confidence they're currently experiencing.

	12-03-2004 05:21									#279
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: [16:18] miccofl: Trip: would you please inform Apolyton as to my resignation as Premier of Netatolia. shadowlord3 is now Premier. I'm just one of the peeps now.

	13-03-2004 06:34									#280
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I would like to post the chat we had with the Germans about city gifting in the CGN diplo thread.

Any porblems or issues anyone sees negative about that?

I just want to give them some sense that we are trying to make progress on that issue.

To bad about miccofl, I am getting frustrated with the BS in this game but I think he is taking it way to seriously :sigh:

	13-03-2004 07:14									#281
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

well, quoting may be better, a lot has been said and they might get suspicious from the friendly way of chatting.

At least you would have to check it if there is anything that should be censored.

Aidun

	16-03-2004 18:34									#282
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok, what in the hell happened? All of a sudden GWT has Agincourt?

Have we been getting any military info out of CGN?

-Arrian

	16-03-2004 18:41									#283
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

[panag]

maybe they gifted that city

... ....

hahaha

have a nice day

[/panag]

	16-03-2004 21:56									#284
	Suffering from ads?

yeah, I've been a bit awol the past couple of days, how did this happen???

	16-03-2004 21:59									#285
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I dont know, I have been traveling and have not talked to CGN since saturday.

I need someone with access to post in there forum. And ask what happened, with Agincourt taken the outlook is bleak.............

	16-03-2004 22:01									#286
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Unless our government has been receiving info from CGN that hasn't been posted, this came out of the blue. Obviously we knew GWT was attacking CGN, but I haven't seen any screenshots of GWT's advance, or any other reports about CGN's situation, unless you count the semi-hysterical PM back on the last page, which babbles about GWT's "100 units" and whatnot. But that's a tad short on specifics.

In short, does anyone know how we got from the resolution of the unit teleportation situation to the loss of Agincourt? Further, do we have any idea of CGN's ability to counterattack?

-Arrian

	16-03-2004 22:47									#287
	Support Apolyton

Soory Arrian, I think I "Tripped" up on posting pertinent info

Take a quick look at the FA thread, we had a long conversation with CGN on saturday or friday.

Based on what they new about the enemy dispositoin, if CGN forted there 13 nearby knights in Agincourt, then GWT should have only had a less than 20% chance of taking Agincourt.

Now why it fell I dont know.

Maybe there we more Ansars we didn't see.

Maybe CGN decided to pull out of agincourt/

I dont know but Ive asked the questiuons in there thread.

Check out the chat in FA for more details.

	16-03-2004 23:08									#288
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Could it be that Lucky, um, "helped?"

...what? Me, suggest that GWT and GCA aren't conducting this war honorably at all? Why would I ever do such a thing?

	17-03-2004 06:23									#289
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Just finished chat with miccofl.

We have agree to give them 600g. They will repay us with 30gpt. Repayment starts 10 turns after the loan goes through. They will give us workers if they can't pay the gold, however, miccofl seems confident that they can repay it.

We gift them gold ASAP.

--Togas

	17-03-2004 06:31									#290
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Couln't they better keep that money, 30gpt means 1 musket each 2 turns...

I think it is better to see what a proper repayment when they have won (small chance, but still) or when it is so hopeless, that it's just better to gift everything away and abandon the whole empire.

They need that 30 gold more than we right now, that's my point.

Aidun

	17-03-2004 08:25									#291
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'd like to get more "FAM" types to hang out in the CGN chat room to keep abreast of current affairs. We can't expect a particular person to alwyas be there but at least we can try to man the channel so that we are available to provide advice and generally just find out what's happening each turn.

To koin their server and channel, do the following:

In Apolyton's chat channel or server window type: /server -m irc.civgaming.net

Then, when the Civgaming.net server window opens up, go to that window and type: /join #isdg-embassy1 apolytonisdg

	03-04-2004 20:42									#292
	Tired of ads?

Rememberance will be built in 600AD (turn 176). At that point, we can gift it to CGN. But they need to make sure that they survive until that point in time. If need be, they need to send a Settler out on a boat trip, just to stay alive up to that point.

Also, they need to start sending us their workers, if they aren't able to do an Iron Gambit in a timely manner (which I really doubt at this point in time). They also need to see about salvaging as many mil units/galley as is possible and send them across, when things get to their worst for them.

Also, if anything, they should start selling off their Libraries (and anything else that they won;t need, like granaries and Temples various cities). Keep the Markets & Barracks unless they are about to lose those cities, then sell and raze. It will give them a bit more GPT to work on upgrades.

We also need to work on our Conditions/expectations of what we will expect from them, when we rescue them. Especially, if we find land to our NW and help them get established there.

MoI E_T

	03-04-2004 20:52									#293
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by E_T Rememberance will be built in 600AD (turn 176). At that point, we can gift it to CGN. But they need to make sure that they survive until that point in time. If need be, they need to send a Settler out on a boat trip, just to stay alive up to that point. Also, they need to start sending us their workers, if they aren't able to do an Iron Gambit in a timely manner (which I really doubt at this point in time). They also need to see about salvaging as many mil units/galley as is possible and send them across, when things get to their worst for them. Also, if anything, they should start selling off their Libraries (and anything else that they won;t need, like granaries and Temples various cities). Keep the Markets & Barracks unless they are about to lose those cities, then sell and raze. It will give them a bit more GPT to work on upgrades. We also need to work on our Conditions/expectations of what we will expect from them, when we rescue them. Especially, if we find land to our NW and help them get established there. MoI E_T

Hmmmmm, I dont disagree in the least E_T but the CGN guys are talking like they are going to try and win this thing. It maybe a turn or two too early to bring up all of this.

The seed has been sown for an exodus, I have already mentioned that to them.

Ill bring up selling off un-needed buildings and such, but Im going to hold off on the Exodus discussion for another turn or two.

If Perris falls this turn there thinking may come aorund to turtle and exodus = survival.

Right now I dont believe there collective karma is thinking that way.

Thoughts, discussion?

	04-04-2004 16:56									#294
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Another CGN Chat, Ill get it cleaned up later today:

Log moved by E_T, see link below

Like I said Ill clean it up later, I believe CGN is starting to realize (finally) that they are gonna get there a$$'s whopped.

[EDIT by E_T] Fixed the display of Nick Referances[/edit]
[2nd EDIT by E_T] Removed Spam & added things from my log at beginning and end [/edit]
[3rd EDIT by E_T] Moved log to Correspondences thread, added summery and link [/edit]

Summery
- Perris has fallen!
- They had needed about 280 Gold to upgrade Horses to Knights but didn't have it
- Talked to them about Selling off Improvements, especially Unneeded Culture/Science ones, like Libraries.
- Found out they have 15 Libs. This would Net them 150 Gold and 15 extra GPT if sold off.
- Micco now autherized to draw up a plan to try to get galleys across to us with Settlers/Mil Units, talked about Probibilities of crossing.
- Told Micco about our plan to gift them a city and when it will first be available.
- Does CGN have some plan with CFC about relocation, because that had come up, but we told him that we didn't know about anything there, but the city we were offering was strictly our plan.
- Miccofl Surprised at the Luck of GWT/GCA, but part of that (IMHO) is just their inept Military planning and executiion.

Link to chatlog in FA:Correspondences Thread

Last edited by E_T on 04-04-2004 at 22:11

	04-04-2004 22:23									#295
	Put an end to popups!

I'll see if I can test this soon, but we need to know one very important fact:

If a civ (i.e. CGN) gives us their workers, which then become slaves to us, IF we give them back to them at a later date, will they be like normal workers (to them) or just slaves??

E_T

	04-04-2004 22:29									#296
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by E_T I'll see if I can test this soon, but we need to know one very important fact: If a civ (i.e. CGN) gives us their workers, which then become slaves to us, IF we give them back to them at a later date, will they be like normal workers (to them) or just slaves?? E_T

Im almost positive they become non slave regular Civ workers.

Whenever I have recaptured my civ's workers they have always reverted back to a normal worker.

	04-04-2004 22:43									#297
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If that is true, then we should have them give CFC (and us) some of their workers. CFC, because we know that they need them and it will allow them to have more money to give us. Also, keeps them involved in our agreements with CGN and our overall alliance.

MoI E_T

	05-04-2004 05:38									#298
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yes they go back to being regular workers - nationality is preserved.

Although the battle was lost, not yet the war, it is a good thing to have this contingency plan in place. We need to get CGN to build Galleys FAST in case GWT just rolls through them with no trouble, and to have a settler or two on those puppies quick as well. Has CGN any Galleys or lookouts for GWT Galleys potentially cutting them off from the gulf between us?

	07-04-2004 19:30									#299
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Trip and I (mostly Trip) had a very frustrating chat with CGN last night.

My take is they just dont seem to understand that they need to concentrate there forces somewhere for a final showdown or hold out location.

The chat is posted in the FA thread that is topped.

We also started a "where should we put CGN if they need a refuge thread".

That thread is .here

Since it is really beginning to look like they are going to lose this war.

	07-04-2004 19:46									#300
	Put an end to popups!

I will post the rest of my chat in a bit when I get some more time.