14-03-2004 03:45									#481
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin News reports that the Spanish authorities have arrested 3 Algerian and 2 'Indians' based on a suspuscious bag found on one of the trains I'm guessing that they're not members of ETA

Not to be nitpicking it was 3 Moroccans and 2 Spaniards of Indian descent.

	14-03-2004 03:56									#482
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc The Three Laws of Robotics. First Law: A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. Second Law: A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. Third Law: A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. As can be seen from this there is no room for the death penalty here. So even though robots have no emotions, they are in fact more humane than humans. It is unreflected emotions which make humans act in an inhumane manner.

(not sarcastically)

	14-03-2004 04:12									#483
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc The Three Laws of Robotics. First Law: A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. Second Law: A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. Third Law: A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. As can be seen from this there is no room for the death penalty here. So even though robots have no emotions, they are in fact more humane than humans. It is unreflected emotions which make humans act in an inhumane manner.

Wrong on all counts, once again.

	14-03-2004 04:18									#484
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Aznar Dimisión!!!!

PP=Mentirosos

	14-03-2004 04:19									#485
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Wrong on all counts, once again.

Tripledoc's philosophical point is valid. If we didn't have passions, we would never do anything inhumane. When we refer to something as being inhumane or barbaric, we usually mean irrational.

	14-03-2004 04:20									#486
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quote: Originally posted by Alfonso Aznar Dimisión!!!! PP=Mentirosos

We'll see at the polls as the PSOE is delievered a defeat of a lifetime.

	14-03-2004 04:24									#487
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo We'll see at the polls as the PSOE is delievered a defeat of a lifetime.

at least we do not have a leader who lies and are not responsible for a massacre like the one of Madrid.

	14-03-2004 04:30									#488
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quote: Originally posted by Alfonso at least we do not have a leader who lies and are not responsible for a massacre like the one of Madrid.

Bullshit as usual.

	14-03-2004 04:32									#489
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wow, in 13 pages, fez has completey destroyed any sympathy i had for spain.

	14-03-2004 04:37									#490
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In response to the people who think ETA would do this and blame it on Al-Queda:

The purpose of attacks like this is to bring attention to your group, not just kill people. There is no point for ETA to do something like that if they don't take the credit. As bad as they are to commit acts of terror, they don't just kill people.

	14-03-2004 04:39									#491
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous In response to the people who think ETA would do this and blame it on Al-Queda: The purpose of attacks like this is to bring attention to your group, not just kill people. There is no point for ETA to do something like that if they don't take the credit. As bad as they are to commit acts of terror, they don't just kill people.

Yes they do kill people. I am sure the 800 dead in the past forty years means nothing to you.

What I am saying is, I think it is a splinter group of ETA.. that is much more radical.

	14-03-2004 04:42									#492
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out of the 800, over 90% have been judges, mayors, and government officials. ETA isnt stupid, this attack would make everyone hate them. AQ isnt stupid either, this attack would make everyone want to stop the war in Iraq/ war on terror.

	14-03-2004 04:43									#493
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia out of the 800, over 90% have been judges, mayors, and government officials. ETA isnt stupid, this attack would make everyone hate them. AQ isnt stupid either, this attack would make everyone want to stop the war in Iraq/ war on terror.

And it is right killing judges, mayors and government officials? Mostly everybody already hates ETA. And No, in fact this attack will make the US and the coalition intensify the war on terror. Take that operation occurring in Afghanistan right now.

	14-03-2004 04:49									#494
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Fez, once again as you have shown many times in this thread, you didn't read what I said. They do kill people. They don't kill people for no reason. Killing people and blaming someone else for it is killing people for no reason.

	14-03-2004 04:50									#495
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia wow, in 13 pages, fez has completey destroyed any sympathy i had for spain.

But he was voted the best debater of Poly by his peers...

	14-03-2004 04:51									#496
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Obviously a clear indication of just how far standards have slipped on this forum...

	14-03-2004 04:51									#497
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Breaking News: Claim of responsibility by an Arabic speaker with a Moroccan accent, calling himself the "military spokesman for Al-Queda in Europe", has sent a tape into Madrid TV claiming responsibility.

	14-03-2004 04:53									#498
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Fez, once again as you have shown many times in this thread, you didn't read what I said. They do kill people. They don't kill people for no reason. Killing people and blaming someone else for it is killing people for no reason.

Maybe they didn't think it would kill so many.. and why are you ruling out a possible splinter group of ETA?

Fab, before we trust a tape it must be verified.

	14-03-2004 04:56									#499
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listen to yourself for a second - did i say it was right to kill government officials? no. but that means they dont kill wantonly, and they are smart. this operation reeks of alqaeda and heres why. (using logic, which might be tuff for you, but try to follow)

1. Timing: right before elections. If done by ETA, backlash against them. If done by Al Qaeda, backlash against them, and payback for spains support of war on terror.

analysis: ETA have everything to lose by bombing before elections. AQ has everything to gain. first, it brings the war on terror to the homefront and brings average civilians into the mix. secondly, it terrorizes people. and third, it can get some people to decide that its better to get out of Iraq and war on terror.

Conclusion: AQ did it

2. Style: wonton destruction, akin to WTC I, WTC II, Embassy I, EMbassy II, Cole. ETA has never done attacks like this (except for one mistkae), sometimes calls in, and takes responsibility. Al qaeda has track record of large scale attacks

analysis: again, ETA has much more to lose. they dont engage in attacks like this because it is counterproductive - it gets people angry at them, which is not what they want. furthermore, they have not on purpose killed hundreds of cilivians. this fits into Al qaedas style

conclusion: its al qaeda.

3. Location: Spain. Spain has historically (and dont think they dont know their history) been the slayers on islam. (reconquista, inquisition)

analysis: by itself, doesnt mean much. but with the other evidence, makes it much more clear

conclusion: a wash. ETA and Al qaeda are just as likely to attack in Spain.

now lets look at the rhetoric and politicisation of this event. all government officials quick to claim it was ETA, and not al qaeda. now why would they do that? could if be because they have a vested interest that if its ETA then everyone will vote against them? even the spanish government understands that the ETA would be slitting their own throats if they did an attack like this. why do you think the interior minister was jizzing all over the place screaming that its ETA? to answer that, all you gotta do is ask "what does every first term party want?" a second term.

	14-03-2004 04:57									#500
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It very well could be a splinter group. However, I think (as do many other Spaniards) that the government was a little too quick to accuse ETA.

As for the tape, this is the second claim. Third time's a charm.

	14-03-2004 04:58									#501
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hahaha. everyone who claimed it was ETA are now unveiled as cheap politicians trying to wring every ounce (or gram) of capital out of this event.

	14-03-2004 04:58									#502
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Lawrence, what the **** is wrong with you? Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the investigation is over.

quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous As for the tape, this is the second claim. Third time's a charm.

It has to verified before anything.

	14-03-2004 04:59									#503
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Maybe they didn't think it would kill so many.. and why are you ruling out a possible splinter group of ETA? Fab, before we trust a tape it must be verified.

Hey Master Debater, 3 moroccans and a couple of indians got arrested because of evidence found in one of the unexploded devices - why are you ruling out a possible link to AQ?

	14-03-2004 05:01									#504
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Hey Master Debater, 3 moroccans and a couple of indians got arrested because of evidence found in one of the unexploded devices - why are you ruling out a possible link to AQ?

I'm not really. One of my first posts on the topic was "It wouldn't surprised me if Al Qaeda was involved".

	14-03-2004 05:01									#505
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quote: Lawrence, what the **** is wrong with you? Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the investigation is over.

oh, you mean like the PP members?

	14-03-2004 05:02									#506
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Lawrence, what the **** is wrong with you? Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the investigation is over. It has to verified before anything.

Says the Master Debater who was screaming for the violent deaths of ETA from the get go...

	14-03-2004 05:03									#507
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia oh, you mean like the PP members?

you ****ing tard, the PP has done a lot more for Spain then the ****ing PSOE.

	14-03-2004 05:03									#508
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quote: I'm not really. One of my first posts on the topic was "It wouldn't surprised me if Al Qaeda was involved".

. . . which came after this post . . .

quote: Consider my opinion changed on autonomy for the Basque region. Suspend it all and declare martial law.

	14-03-2004 05:04									#509
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quote: you ****ing tard, the PP has done a lot more for Spain then the ****ing PSOE.

ok, so you admit that the PP jumped to conclusions, along with you? and now we can see that they are wrong conclusions.

	14-03-2004 05:04									#510
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia . . . which came after this post . . .

Again you're being an idiot. I didn't mean that one about martial law. Can you grow a brain?