11-03-2004 16:50									#31
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Bastards. Biggest act of terrorism in Europe since 1945. I wonder why there's so much hostility connected to the Basque issue in the first place? I imagine it's got to do with historical issues?

	11-03-2004 17:23									#33
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Now over 170 deaths

Political arm of the ETA says it is not responsible, and claims islamic terrorists are. But maybe they just try avoid a strong reaction....

	11-03-2004 17:29									#34
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oh. my. god.

What a bunch of *******s.

My condolences to the families of the deceased. Just heard about this.

	11-03-2004 17:35									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie

	11-03-2004 17:37									#36
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro But maybe they just try avoid a strong reaction....

Then why would they of done it? Denying responsibility for a terrorist act kind of defeats the purpose.

	11-03-2004 18:00									#37
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Perhaps they miscalculated the death toll, or perhaps the peron who was supposed to give a warning to the punlic failed to do so.

	11-03-2004 18:04									#38
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My Condolences to the Spanish people. This is horrific what has happened.

	11-03-2004 18:10									#39
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Now over 170 deaths

180 deaths and 711 wounded... this is horrible.. I can't say no more.

	11-03-2004 18:29									#40
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Oh man this is bad

What is the answer of the EU? We are on the verge of pledging military alliance. As Spain is attacked by either domestic or international terrorists, they must be hunt down and arrested or shot. That said, this is a test of the EU. Do we stand behind Spain, or just talk BS and say how sorry we are? if it is international attack, it is time to show where we stand with each other. Personally I wish that we stand next to Spain and contribute to the effort. I wish we done this to the US as well with more determination and resources.

BUT enough with the BS.

My condolences to Spain, the victims and their loved ones. It's a sad day for Spain and Europe. I wish them strength and HOPE we offer our full 110% support in everything they ask or might need and expect nothing less.

	11-03-2004 18:36									#41
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Then why would they of done it? Denying responsibility for a terrorist act kind of defeats the purpose.

It's pure hipocresy. This persons always try to justify the terrorism by the suffering of the basque people (one of the richest zones of Spain). They use to "lament, not condemn" terrorist acts. For a long time Its claims has been attended by foreign goberments, just in the last two years everybody close their doors to them. Terrorist use to kill military, politics, and so, and when they kill civilians they said that was "colateral" damage Then started to attack citizens, but they call before the explosion, to spread terror but not death. If the call fail the deaths wasn't their intention
Now they are surrounded, they kill when they can to everybody. Because of the policial success, terrorist are young, stupid and brainwashed guys

Please, don't mix the position of Spain at the Iraq conflict with this. I can assure you that the majority of spanish are against that war. If they continue supporting our government is because the (supposed) good economic growth and prosperity

	11-03-2004 18:40									#42
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OK but the death toll is so big... Are you Spanish people conveinced (as one can humanly be) that it was ETA and not Al Qaeda?

	11-03-2004 18:41									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Niessuh Please, don't mix the position of Spain at the Iraq conflict with this. I can assure you that the majority of spanish are against that war.

That's true.

And, it's only a very little portion of the basque people who supports the terrorist band called ETA.

ETA has been killing people since 1968.

	11-03-2004 18:43									#44
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But then again, attack this big.. I mean if thinking from Al Qaedas perspective, they would know that most people blame ETA not them.. and they'd kind of get away with it.. or ETA and AQ work together against common enemy.. I don't know I'm just speculating and I don't want to offend anyone with it during the suffering of other people.

	11-03-2004 18:50									#45
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I'm terribly sorry that this happened. I hope that whoever did it is brought to justice and their cause and especially their means discredited permanently.

	11-03-2004 18:50									#46
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World markets tumble BTW. They started tumbling down from the moment ETA said it wasn't them.

But again my condolences this is propably not the thread for this

	11-03-2004 18:56									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Oh man this is bad What is the answer of the EU? We are on the verge of pledging military alliance. As Spain is attacked by either domestic or international terrorists, they must be hunt down and arrested or shot. That said, this is a test of the EU. Do we stand behind Spain, or just talk BS and say how sorry we are? if it is international attack, it is time to show where we stand with each other. Personally I wish that we stand next to Spain and contribute to the effort. I wish we done this to the US as well with more determination and resources. .

Well, as far as I read the Spanish authorities were already very successful against the ETA so far (if it was the ETA). Public support for the ETA even amongst the Basques (sp?) is down, and some analysts believe that there are only a few cells of the terror org left, and that - despite this attack - the ETA is going downhill.

Of course if it turnes out that it wasn't the ETA then this is all irrelevant.....

	11-03-2004 19:02									#48
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 World markets tumble BTW. They started tumbling down from the moment ETA said it wasn't them.

ETA still has not said that.

	11-03-2004 19:05									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Which the PP will win by a damn landslide. Tough hand on terrorism and this did it. In essence if this was ETA, they screwed themselves further because the PP will take even a bigger win. The PP (Popular Party) is very hardline when it comes to terrorism.

You are a dirty type!

Not this confirmed that is ETA. It is not its form to act.

	11-03-2004 19:08									#50
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quote: Originally posted by WRW ETA still has not said that.

I guess world markets just interpreted the absence of a claim of responsibility from ETA as that or maybe as that it is not certain for sure who did it.

	11-03-2004 19:09									#51
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 OK but the death toll is so big... Are you Spanish people conveinced (as one can humanly be) that it was ETA and not Al Qaeda?

the argument about denying responsibility defeating the purpose applies even more strongly to AQ. An AQ attack in Saudi or Indonesia might help destablize a regime, apart from knowledge of who did it. An attack in the west OTOH, is useful only to the extent it A. deters the West OR B. Provokes the West OR C. Gains AQ the image in the Islamic world of being "the strong horse" None of these can be achieved with anonymity (which doesnt exclude the possibility of nominal denials, with a wink, such as occured after 9/11 - but that was obviously AQ, as this is not)


Condolences to the families, the wounded, the families of the wounded, and all the people of Spain.

	11-03-2004 19:12									#52
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LOTM sorry for not reading that, but I'm not interested in your speculation, just what the spanish people think.

	11-03-2004 19:18									#53
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My first thought was Al Qaeda as payback for Spain's pro-US stance. Hopefully a through investigation will pint-point exactly which group was responsible.

Personally, it is surprising to me why trains are not more common targest-they are sitting ducks, they are not given anywhere near the same protection as planes, and attacks on commuters are likely to be a. very bloody and b.get lots of press.

	11-03-2004 19:19									#54
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I guess world markets just interpreted the absence of a claim of responsibility from ETA as that or maybe as that it is not certain for sure who did it.

Ok.

It's very probbably was ETA because two weeks ago the police stops a van with thounsands of explosives ready to use in Madrid.

	11-03-2004 19:19									#55
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It seems there is a high likelihood of ETA as the authors of the massacre.

They tried a simmilar act last Christmas Day (many people traveling by train to see their loved relatives), and two terrorists were caught recently.

According to current investigations, the material used is the same which was found with the terrorists and the procedure is the same, activing the explosives by a mobile phone call.

ETA used to call before their terrorist attacks (not always), but this time they didn't.

ETA used to admit their acts some time after the act is carried out, so we are still in doubts, but as I have said above there is a great likelihood of ETA as the author of the attacks.

This attack has killed many workers and students who were moving to their jobs and university, colleges. They are innocent and defenseless people, this cannot be a politic reivindication, this is a massacre.

This attack is aimed to sabotage our democratic elections.

	11-03-2004 19:22									#56
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Ok thank you for your insight. Condolences again

	11-03-2004 19:50									#58
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Why not Eta AND Al-Qaida?

Surely a pooling of resources and know-how would benefit both groups enormously and there is well known evidence of terrorist groups co-operating in the past around the world...

Still, if it was Eta then it was a massive act of stupidity on their part as this cold-blooded carnage will cause such a massive backlash against them that even the ravings of nutjobs like Fez will sound reasonable to many Spaniards...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3501364.stm

	11-03-2004 20:12									#59
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I say this is Al-Qaida looking to destabilize Spain. Basque seperatists arent known for attacks of this magnitude.

But evidence will point a finger no doubt. Passenger Logs, Remnants of bombs. They will find out who did this. Im betting Al-Queda

	11-03-2004 20:16									#60
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a very sad day for spain and the world as a whole

my first thought when i heard about this was that this seems too big for ETA, especially as the organisation is supposed to be in decline. let's hope the spanish authorities can find out the truth and bring whoever is responsible to justice swiftly.