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jasev is offline jasev
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 15:39 Visit jasev's homepage!
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quote:
May-be ETA hire outside help. In some Mafic hit in America the local mob hire hitman from than other city control by the Mafic to kill than witness or another mob member to avoid certain problem, like the local police know what very local mafic hitman look like.


According with the documents that we're beginning to know, ETA didn't need to 'hire' moslem extremist groups. They'd have done it for free. Now, nobody denies that Al-Queda (¿Al-Qaeda? ¿Al-Quida? ) is behind the bombs; the possibility of a co-operation with ETA is absurd because of two reasons:

1) ETA would have nothing to win with that. They learned it when they killed more than 20 people in Barcelona 17 years ago.
2) Al-Queda would have a lot to lose making an agreement with ETA because the spanish government has spies inside the band and it would have been an unnecessary risk: no terrorist group in the world can tell ETA his plans because there is a chance that the spanish intelligence service may receive them.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 16:21 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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It will be interesting to see what people will vote.

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
You are looking at it the wrong way mrmitchell

Imagine how many MORE acts would have occurred by now if USA hadn't have gone after these morons.

I think you expect a perfect world where these attacks no longer ever occur.


OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by WRW

LIER!!!

This convocation was for the Friday, no Saturday... !!!

Saturday's convocation was espontaneous by sending anonimus SMS.


If your eyes can´t see that´s not my fault.



quote:
This is that SMS text (in Spanish):

"¿Aznar de rositas? ¿le llaman jornadas de reflexión y Urdaci trabaja? Hoy 13-M a las 18 horas sede PP C/Génova 13. Sin partidos. Silencio. Por la verdad. ¡Pásalo!".


Oh yes... Urdaci cannot work, but the SER can...

WRW is offline WRW
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Aug 2002
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 18:33 Visit WRW's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by OliverFA


If your eyes can´t see that´s not my fault.





Oh yes... Urdaci cannot work, but the SER can...




Are you Urdaci?





My dear "Lier" ignorant, Could you translate the text of this message, please? So everyone can see that maybe you're a Popular Party menber.

And how much visits does this web page have?

10, 15, maybe 20...?

Thanks.

WRW is offline WRW
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 18:46 Visit WRW's homepage!
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If the SER radio station, the La Vanguardia newspaper, and others, didn't work yesterday and we have to know the f***** true throught actual Spain's Goverment, We, Spain, Europe and all the World was thinking still that the Al Qaeda terrorist band didn't make this terrible massacre

jasev is offline jasev
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 18:53 Visit jasev's homepage!
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quote:
So. What do you think about the ilegitimate demonstrations? They say that they were "espontaneous" demonstrations. But look at this page preparing that "espontaneous" demonstration...


Oliver, the demonstration was spontaneous because there was no official announce from any organisation. Somebody thought it would be a good idea and everybody used SMS, e-mail, newsgroups and forums to ask the people to go. If you care to search, I'm sure you'll find similar messages in a lot of websites. For example, somebody posted one in the SCS Forum... are you going to type that we prepare illegal demonstratinos?

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:19
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quote:
Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


Criminal investion arenot easy as there are so many angle to consider. On Long Island on halloween some cazy person was putting 100 % pure heron in oakmeal cookies than 20 small children die from eating then. The Mafric gave the local police than tip on who was doing it. It turn out to be than cazy millionair, first no heron addit would have done this as they would have use the drug on thenself, drug dealer would have cut the drug by missing it with bakeing soda an sell it to heron addit.


OK, I need to seem some proof of this. Can you link us to a newspaper article about this crime? Could this be some sort of urban legend?

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:25
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I'm not sure why people are so angry about the government initially suspecting ETA. After all there have been arrests of ETA agents involved in bombing plots recently. Wasn't one such incident aborted by the Spanish police supposedly a plot to bomb a train or a station?

I wonder if it would be actually possible for al-Qaeda to have manipulated ETA into attempting to plant bombs and then to have turned them in with precisely the hopes of misleading the Spanish government into making humiliating misaccusations?

BeBro is offline BeBro
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:27 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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I think the prob is more that the government still insisted it was the ETA when that wasn't clear at all anymore.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:29 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Because Dr. Strangelove, if it was ETA then the gov. wouldn't be held responsible for supporting US on invading Iraq.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:30 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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That's why it tired as hard as it could to blame eta. and that's why it wasnt too pleased when people staged rallies accusing it of supporting the US (and declared them illegal under the notion that they were political and so close to elections)

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:32
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Of course jasev. If you change your definition of espontaneous they are espontaneous. But the only truth is that all those people and web sites (as yourself recognize) broke the law by suporting (if not organizing) an ilegal demonstration. And that the PSOE didn´t ask the demonstrators to stop, implicitly backing them...

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I'm not sure why people are so angry about the government initially suspecting ETA. After all there have been arrests of ETA agents involved in bombing plots recently. Wasn't one such incident aborted by the Spanish police supposedly a plot to bomb a train or a station?

I wonder if it would be actually possible for al-Qaeda to have manipulated ETA into attempting to plant bombs and then to have turned them in with precisely the hopes of misleading the Spanish government into making humiliating misaccusations?


First. we will see this afternoon if people is really angry at the government or not.

Second, "people" are angry because they are looking for any error of the government to blame them, no matter if they have to use the 200 victims for that. The truth is that all of them thougt the same (which can be told by their words "oh no! now PP will have absolute majority!) but now they are saying they wouldn´t.

jasev is offline jasev
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 19:59 Visit jasev's homepage!
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quote:
Of course jasev. If you change your definition of espontaneous they are espontaneous.


I didn't change anything.

quote:
But the only truth is that all those people and web sites (as yourself recognize) broke the law by suporting (if not organizing) an ilegal demonstration.

Well, dennounce us please.

quote:
And that the PSOE didn´t ask the demonstrators to stop, implicitly backing them...


Typical. When you don't know whom to blame, let's blame PSOE. What a pity Felipe González has retired, you could have blamed him

jasev is offline jasev
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 20:04 Visit jasev's homepage!
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quote:
Second, "people" are angry because they are looking for any error of the government to blame them, no matter if they have to use the 200 victims for that. The truth is that all of them thougt the same (which can be told by their words "oh no! now PP will have absolute majority!) but now they are saying they wouldn´t.


Maybe if Acebes didn't have lied to the people in the first place we wouldn't be so angry. He told us the explosives and detonators used were the same ETA normally use. FALSE. He told us there was no other possibility than ETA did it. FALSE. He said it was ETA's modus operandi. FALSE. He told us, when all the world knew that Al-Queda was responsible, that ETA was the primary suspicious...

And meanwhile, our foreign affairs minister ordered our ambassadors to lie all around the world. We forced a condemn by the UN security council that blamed ETA, though nobody knew how the Government could be so sure.

We're angry because our government lied us and the whole world. Now everybody knows what for a government we have, and I don't know if I feel more ashamed or angry. And they did it because they didn't want we to know the real cause of 200 deaths.

Quoting you, they want to win the election, and
quote:
no matter if they have to use the 200 victims for that

Dr. Nick is offline Dr. Nick
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Oct 2000
time: 01:34
  Old Post 14-03-2004 20:23 Visit Dr. Nick's homepage!
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Go Zapatero!

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 20:27 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Just curious, when are first results expected from the elections?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 14-03-2004 20:48
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I'd imagine on 20:00. It is generally the standard time to close polling booths.

jasev is offline jasev
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 21:03 Visit jasev's homepage!
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At 20:00, the press will publish the last opinion polls (it's forbidden to publish a poll from last tuesday until the polling booths are closed). I think we'll have about 25% of the votes counted at 21:00, and almost all votes at 24:00

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 21:09
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Nice avatar, Jasev

BeBro is offline BeBro
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 21:12 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Thx Jasev

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 22:44
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quote:
Originally posted by jasev
Typical. When you don't know whom to blame, let's blame PSOE. What a pity Felipe González has retired, you could have blamed him


Isn´t that what you do? To blame PP and Aznar for everything? That´s typical of the left. To accuse the other side of what they do...

I just said that if PS* was as democratic as they pretend to be, they would have told the demonstrators to stop, instead of "understanding" them...

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 22:46
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quote:
Originally posted by jasev
At 20:00, the press will publish the last opinion polls (it's forbidden to publish a poll from last tuesday until the polling booths are closed). I think we'll have about 25% of the votes counted at 21:00, and almost all votes at 24:00


Would 20:00 in Spain be 16:00 or 17:00 in the Eastern Time Zone of the US?

BTW Goya was one of the greats of European art, but IIRC in that picture the troops firing on the peasants are French.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Would 20:00 in Spain be 16:00 or 17:00 in the Eastern Time Zone of the US?

14:00 EST

And I know for Goya's Tres de Mayo, but it is a great piece nonetheless

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 22:51
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How can a demonstration be ILLEGAL?

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by jasev


Maybe if Acebes didn't have lied to the people in the first place we wouldn't be so angry.

False. You were angry from the begining. You just were looking for a reason to justify it.

quote:
He told us, when all the world knew that Al-Queda was responsible, that ETA was the primary suspicious...

You can say what you want. But logic tells to think about ETA. Only after discovering new clues you can think about something else. Following your logic it could have been any terrorist group. Why not? Of course, enlighted leftist knew from the beginning who were the ones who put the bomb.

And even if it was Al-Qaeda, that doesn´t change the fact that ETA tried to do it a few weeks ago (oh yes, now you are going to tell me that Acebes also lied about that).

quote:
We forced a condemn by the UN security council that blamed ETA

ETA was and is a dangerous terrorist groups. Well... at least it was before 11-M. Know for some people they are very nice people who make parties for children and plant nice trees.

quote:
And they did it because they didn't want we to know the real cause of 200 deaths.

And what's "the real cause of deaths"? Let´s suppose the bomb were put by Al-Qaeda. Who put the bomb? Who detonate them? Was Aznar! Was the PP? No! The terrorists were! Oh yes, you are about to tell me that this is because something that happened in Irak, wich will probe that Al-Qaeda had a relationship with Irak after all...

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 23:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
How can a demonstration be ILLEGAL?


By going against the law?

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 14-03-2004 23:06
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quote:

Originally posted by OliverFA
You can say what you want. But logic tells to think about ETA.


Logics never pointed in the direction of the ETA. The ETA's goal is not to kill civilians, but official.s

quote:

Only after discovering new clues you can think about something else.


And before having any you shut up, and don't play upon a tragedy for the sake of political gain.


quote:

Following your logic it could have been any terrorist group. Why not? Of course, enlighted leftist knew from the beginning who were the ones who put the bomb.



Enlightened leftists were suspicious of Aznar's accusations in the first place, and especially because they had a strange way of confirming the validity of his anti ETA policy.


quote:

And even if it was Al-Qaeda, that doesn´t change the fact that ETA tried to do it a few weeks ago (oh yes, now you are going to tell me that Acebes also lied about that).



We don't know what they were going to do with these explosives. BTW, I am highly suspicious of anything seized by the police when it involves politics. Back in the 70s, the Canadian police planted bombs and claimed that Quebec separatists did.

quote:

And what's "the real cause of deaths"? Let´s suppose the bomb were put by Al-Qaeda. Who put the bomb? Who detonate them? Was Aznar! Was the PP? No! The terrorists were! Oh yes, you are about to tell me that this is because something that happened in Irak, wich will probe that Al-Qaeda had a relationship with Irak after all...


Of course, everyone who reacts to the conquest of Iraq had ties with Saddam Hussein.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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Sep 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 14-03-2004 23:10
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If it was al-Queda...

Has al-Qaeda ever targeted Spain before?

 
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