17-03-2004 23:57									#421
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Undermine their source of followers by forcing Israel to deal fairly with the Palestinians, stop supporting dictatorial regimes in the Moslem world, and hunt the bastards down everywhere in the world an brng them to justice.

1) On Israel -- Dean said this. Do you think Kerry will? There is a Jewish vote to consider.

2) What Dictators are we supporting?

3) Hunt? In Iran? In Syria? In Pakistan after we pull the rug from under Mussaraff.

	17-03-2004 23:59									#422
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Alocate the necessary recources to fighting AQ and counterterrorism.

Please explain what we should be DOING. Forget the money. We will fund it.

	18-03-2004 00:03									#423
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Alocate the necessary recources to fighting AQ and counterterrorism unlike this admin.

In reverse order of appearance

Which means what pap?

Turn the country into a police state. You'd howl then eh?

	18-03-2004 00:05									#424
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Undermine their source of followers by forcing Israel to deal fairly with the Palestinians, stop supporting dictatorial regimes in the Moslem world, and hunt the bastards down everywhere in the world an brng them to justice.

So you advocate re-arming the CIA (metaphorically speaking) and letting them actually conduct nasty covert ops again?

Who is using Che's PC?

	18-03-2004 00:09									#425
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Well, lets start.

The Homeland Defense department is a joke. Too many different tasks all consolidtate under one moronic control. Much more important would have been to consolidtate FBI and CIA terrorist intelliegence, and imporve interagency info sharing on this issue.

We are about 40,000 western troops short in Afghnistan. We need to disarm the warlords, create centralized controlof the country under the Kabul government.

We need far more money for localities to fill higher security bills, increase training and pay for those doing security on the ground.

I am sure all the money we have sunk into Iraq would have more than paid for all these things.

As for Iraq, now that AFTER INVASION it has become infested with AQ- replace a coolition of the willing with a real international mandate. Use this to bring in tens of thousands of troops from around the world to use for security. Much higher recosntruction aid, much higher.

	18-03-2004 00:10									#426
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This guy is an idiot..

ZAPATERO PROVES HIS MORONISM

The International Herald Tribune recently quoted Zapatero as saying, "We're aligning ourselves with Kerry. Our allegiance will be for peace, against war, no more deaths for oil, and for a dialogue between the government of Spain and the new Kerry administration."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...pain_bombings_2

Kerry isn't even elected, so what the **** is he talking about? And the chances for Kerry are minimal.

	18-03-2004 00:10									#427
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And yours? Oh, I forgot, you headed the CIA from 24303 to 45670, no?

Dodging again snaketongue?

No I didnt head the CIA, I did analysis for another bunch.

quote: Bombings in Madrid, Bali, Istanbul, Iraq, Morrocco, Tunisia, OBL still out, reports on conitnuing security lapses not only at RR lines, but airports still, and lets not even get into highways and ports. And then no reports yet from the 9/11 commissions, and I eould like to here good news about greater information sharing between US agencies and International agencies. The successes I have seen against AQ and its leadership and financing do not seem to have been followed up, or their effects have worn off significantly.

Damn, I forgot to wave my magic wand again.

quote: * GePap thins that is all biased bs for Spenciepoo anyway, but what does the good all pap now?

Obviously pap doesnt know what pap is.

	18-03-2004 00:12									#428
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quote: Originally posted by GePap We are about 40,000 western troops short in Afghnistan. We need to disarm the warlords, create centralized controlof the country under the Kabul government.

Remember the last time a nation sent troops in mass to Afghanistan? The Soviet Union correct? That's not a very wise thing to do. We cannot send a mass amount of troops to make it look like we are taking over or the **** will hit the fan.

	18-03-2004 00:12									#429
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Dodging again snaketongue? No I didnt head the CIA, I did analysis for another bunch.

And of course, this makes you the expert-hey, you care so much, why haven't you joined up to fight AQ?

quote: Damn, I forgot to wave my magic wand again.

Oh, nice dodge, *hmm, must think of catchy new name for Spenciepoo?..hmmmmmmmmmm?

Nah, Spenciepoo fits the kid nicely.

	18-03-2004 00:15									#430
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Remember the last time a nation sent troops in mass to Afghanistan? The Soviet Union correct? That's not a very wise thing to do. We cannot send a mass amount of troops to make it look like we are taking over or the **** will hit the fan.

How could you dare compare the glorious liberation of the crushed Afghan people to the murdeorus commie aggression vs the then peaceloving Afghan people!!??

Nothing but a communist sympathizer you are.

If I remember, the jihadists, like, hmm, one Osama Bin Laden, got huge amounts of money and aid from the west, SA, and a friendly Pakistan. All these things would be lacking today, as AQ and the warlords have no international friends.

	18-03-2004 00:19									#431
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, lets start. The Homeland Defense department is a joke. Too many different tasks all consolidtate under one moronic control. Much more important would have been to consolidtate FBI and CIA terrorist intelliegence, and imporve interagency info sharing on this issue. We are about 40,000 western troops short in Afghnistan. We need to disarm the warlords, create centralized controlof the country under the Kabul government. We need far more money for localities to fill higher security bills, increase training and pay for those doing security on the ground. I am sure all the money we have sunk into Iraq would have more than paid for all these things. As for Iraq, now that AFTER INVASION it has become infested with AQ- replace a coolition of the willing with a real international mandate. Use this to bring in tens of thousands of troops from around the world to use for security. Much higher recosntruction aid, much higher.

Not bad, GePap. I could support this.

	18-03-2004 00:20									#432
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quote: Originally posted by GePap How could you dare compare the glorious liberation of the crushed Afghan people to the murdeorus commie aggression vs the then peaceloving Afghan people!!?? Nothing but a communist sympathizer you are. If I remember, the jihadists, like, hmm, one Osama Bin Laden, got huge amounts of money and aid from the west, SA, and a friendly Pakistan. All these things would be lacking today, as AQ and the warlords have no international friends.

Calling me a communist sympathizer is like calling Ronald Reagan a leftist.

What you say isn't relevant. But what is relevant is this: If we send troops in mass it would look like we are taking over.

	18-03-2004 00:23									#433
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo This guy is an idiot.. ZAPATERO PROVES HIS MORONISM The International Herald Tribune recently quoted Zapatero as saying, "We're aligning ourselves with Kerry. Our allegiance will be for peace, against war, no more deaths for oil, and for a dialogue between the government of Spain and the new Kerry administration." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...pain_bombings_2 Kerry isn't even elected, so what the **** is he talking about? And the chances for Kerry are minimal.

I look forward to Kerry endorsing Zapatero and annoucing a unilateral pullout from Iraq to match Spain's.

	18-03-2004 00:24									#434
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My main problem with this admin. vis a vi terrorism is that for all their TALK the fact is we have to spend massive amounts of more money on imporving counterterrorism, on making Afghanistan secure and now Iraq secure-the fact is, the sacrifices the American people must make are much greater than this amdin. is even willing to ask of them-for all their talk about them being tough on terrorism.

I prefer Kerry to Bush on terrorism not becuase I think Kerry can all of a sudden change everything overnight in terms of getting agencies to cooperate in the US, but becuase he
1. talks about increasing internal anti-terorrism funding
2. Americans are NOT ready to make the sacrifices necessary-that being the case, a more cordial international relation with our allies will help us coordinate our meager resources better with the meager resources others are willing to invest to improve our bang for the buck.

	18-03-2004 00:24									#435
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And of course, this makes you the expert-hey, ?

Not at all, counter-terrorism wasnt my area, but unlike you, I actually have experience in the intel world.

quote: you care so much, why haven't you joined up to fight AQ

Brilliant! Maybe I should go back home where I belong too!

quote: Oh, nice dodge, *hmm, must think of catchy new name for Spenciepoo?..hmmmmmmmmmm? Nah, Spenciepoo fits the kid nicely.

What? You'd rather I call you pap than snaketongue?

	18-03-2004 00:25									#436
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I look forward to Kerry endorsing Zapatero and annoucing a unilateral pullout from Iraq to match Spain's.

What is even more rich in B.S about Zapatero's statement is saying the "New Kerry adminstration". First off the election hasn't yet happened. I bet even the leftists can agree with me here that was pretty irresponsible.

Yep, Kerry truly hates the Iraqi people.

	18-03-2004 00:28									#437
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GePap, I think you demonstrated that laying out a positive plan for fighting terrorism can gain support from even Republicans if it makes a lot of sense. Simply second guessing a president without offering a vision or a plan is extremely devisive and hardly productive. We should be united in our fight against terrorism, IMHO.

	18-03-2004 00:28									#438
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Calling me a communist sympathizer is like calling Ronald Reagan a leftist.

He was once. And Nancy Reagan has explixitly said she and Ronnie Raygun did not want to have his face on the dime, as that would be an insult to FDR, which they view as a great president.

quote: What you say isn't relevant. But what is relevant is this: If we send troops in mass it would look like we are taking over.

Oh Fezzie-wezzie: given your title as greatest debator here, obviously now you must retreat to the mountain and never speak again, for you can not let the infadels listen to your sweet lyrical arguements....

	18-03-2004 00:30									#439
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quote: Originally posted by GePap He was once. And Nancy Reagan has explixitly said she and Ronnie Raygun did not want to have his face on the dime, as that would be an insult to FDR, which they view as a great president. Oh Fezzie-wezzie: given your title as greatest debator here, obviously now you must retreat to the mountain and never speak again, for you can not let the infadels listen to your sweet lyrical arguements....

Nope, nope. I win this argument. My words in itself is evidence to prove my argument and I win against your fallacious statements.

	18-03-2004 00:34									#440
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quote: Originally posted by GePap My main problem with this admin. vis a vi terrorism is that for all their TALK the fact is we have to spend massive amounts of more money on imporving counterterrorism, on making Afghanistan secure and now Iraq secure-the fact is, the sacrifices the American people must make are much greater than this amdin. is even willing to ask of them-for all their talk about them being tough on terrorism. I prefer Kerry to Bush on terrorism not becuase I think Kerry can all of a sudden change everything overnight in terms of getting agencies to cooperate in the US, but becuase he 1. talks about increasing internal anti-terorrism funding 2. Americans are NOT ready to make the sacrifices necessary-that being the case, a more cordial international relation with our allies will help us coordinate our meager resources better with the meager resources others are willing to invest to improve our bang for the buck.

I doubt that any administration would be honest about the costs of truly improving security here in the US and until europe feels truly threatened by AQ I doubt they will cooperate. Perhaps Madrid will change that.

	18-03-2004 00:36									#441
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Not at all, counter-terrorism wasnt my area, but unlike you, I actually have experience in the intel world.

And? You did not actually either make any positive comments about what bush has done concerning intel or make any comments on my statements. So, again, and?

quote: Brilliant! Maybe I should go back home where I belong too!

I doubt they would want you back-but ask BC anyway.

quote: What? You'd rather I call you pap than snaketongue?

Given that I don't really give a crap about what "pap" means in the land of Spenciepoo, I prefer it to snaketounge since it is shorter and sounds more like my call name.

	18-03-2004 00:39									#442
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quote: Originally posted by Ned GePap, I think you demonstrated that laying out a positive plan for fighting terrorism can gain support from even Republicans if it makes a lot of sense. Simply second guessing a president without offering a vision or a plan is extremely devisive and hardly productive. We should be united in our fight against terrorism, IMHO.

Gepap makes points that we can agree with. My disagreement with his 5 point plan (aside from my skepticism of any coalition) is that it puts us in a defensive posture (i.e. homeland security). I prefer to fight the war on their land, and in order to do that we either get covert-nasty or wage war. I believe most americans would prefer open war but aren't willing to pay the price to do so. Until we choose one or the other, we'll only have half measures.

	18-03-2004 00:42									#443
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Nope, nope. I win this argument. My words in itself is evidence to prove my argument and I win against your fallacious statements.

You and Imran have a lot in common, Fez.

	18-03-2004 00:46									#444
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And? You did not actually either make any positive comments about what bush has done concerning intel

Maybe because it hasnt come up in this thread. My concerns with the intel lapses have been posted in other threads. In short, I dont think enough has been done to re-org the major players but I recognize that they have different roles to play in our security.

quote: or make any comments on my statements. So, again, and?

Your 5 point plan? see above

quote: I doubt they would want you back-but ask BC anyway.

They might not at that

quote: Given that I don't really give a crap about what "pap" means in the land of Spenciepoo, I prefer it to snaketounge since it is shorter and sounds more like my call name.

Wonderfull!

	18-03-2004 00:47									#445
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Gepap makes points that we can agree with. My disagreement with his 5 point plan (aside from my skepticism of any coalition) is that it puts us in a defensive posture (i.e. homeland security). I prefer to fight the war on their land, and in order to do that we either get covert-nasty or wage war. I believe most americans would prefer open war but aren't willing to pay the price to do so. Until we choose one or the other, we'll only have half measures.

Still, there are lot of positive features in GePap's plan. It would be nice if the Kerry would deliver his plan for fighting terrorism just like GePap did, with no criticism of past actions. If his plan had merit, it would gain support.

	18-03-2004 00:47									#446
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DP

how the hell did that happen?

	18-03-2004 00:56									#447
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Still, there are lot of positive features in GePap's plan. It would be nice if the Kerry would deliver his plan for fighting terrorism just like GePap did, with no criticism of past actions. If his plan had merit, it would gain support.

The problem is there's a big difference between what you'd like to see happen and what you can get done. We cant even get a national ID card through congress! We're not allowed to use security cameras to take everyones picture who enters an airport and checking it with databases. This list goes on and on...........

	18-03-2004 01:06									#448
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH So you advocate re-arming the CIA (metaphorically speaking) and letting them actually conduct nasty covert ops again? Who is using Che's PC?

I'm thinking more along the lines of the FBI and Interpol. The CIA aren't police. As far as the CIA snuffing terrorists, no problem, as long as they are terrorists and not some political organization. I may not like the jihadists, but as long as they're talking and not doing, we should leave them alone.

	18-03-2004 01:16									#449
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH The problem is there's a big difference between what you'd like to see happen and what you can get done. We cant even get a national ID card through congress! We're not allowed to use security cameras to take everyones picture who enters an airport and checking it with databases. This list goes on and on...........

Spencer, I fully support a national ID card. I wonder where the opposition is coming from and why?

	18-03-2004 01:19									#450
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It's an assault on civil liberties and an attack on "illegal" immigrants.