17-03-2004 21:16									#391
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I actually think it is, BC.

-Arrian

	17-03-2004 21:16									#392
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quote: Originally posted by GePap No. You would be voting again out of fear and anger- Heck! This guy will go after them and they won't try it again! As opposed to this guy will get out of their way, and they won;t try it again! Yes, kid, massive difference..in the Nedaverse perhaps.

I take it that you have a college education, and had to take psychology. Do you remember what positive reinforcement is? As long as the terrorists are successfull at getting the outcomes they deserve they will continue with the same strategy.

	17-03-2004 21:17									#393
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Man is a political animal. Terrorism is a form of political violence. How could this discussion NOT be political?

I mean not politicising for personal or party gain.

	17-03-2004 21:18									#394
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I take it that you have a college education, and had to take psychology. Do you remember what positive reinforcement is? As long as the terrorists are successfull at getting the outcomes they deserve they will continue with the same strategy.

And of course, the negative re-enforcement of the post 9/11 reaction has surely taught them attacks are pointless-wait, NO, it didn't.

Pop psychology as a method of picking pols? Great system there you have.

	17-03-2004 21:20									#395
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Political agreement is not proof of lack of politicising.

But has such politicising it caused people to change the votes from one party to another on the grounds of their handling of terrorism?

	17-03-2004 21:21									#396
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And of course, the negative re-enforcement of the post 9/11 reaction has surely taught them attacks are pointless-wait, NO, it didn't.

Strawman. No elections.

	17-03-2004 21:23									#397
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I actually think it is, BC. -Arrian

What, just Brits quirkiness? Or it is made into an election issue?

	17-03-2004 21:29									#398
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I would really love it if we could make the issue of how to deal with AQ and other terrorists become a non-politicised, non-partisan issue. If the policies were agreed and commited to across parties then there would be no problem.

I would love to see any plan to deal with the threat posed by terrorists.

	17-03-2004 21:31									#399
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I would love to see any plan to deal with the threat posed by terrorists.

Are you implying there aren't any?

	17-03-2004 21:33									#400
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Quirky Brits.

-Arrian

	17-03-2004 21:53									#401
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Are you implying there aren't any?

No, I just want to hear from those who oppose the US-led liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan what it is they would do instead. Talk about it at the UN, allow the dirty-tricks types to start assassinating targets (once we actually recruit and train enough agents), support despotic governments that crack down on terrorists?

	17-03-2004 22:00									#402
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Quirky Brits. -Arrian

The world would be a better place if everyone was British.

	17-03-2004 22:03									#403
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch The world would be a better place if everyone was British.

Well you guys do have a good idea about not allowing terrorism to be an election issue. What happens if people start disagreeing though?

	17-03-2004 22:32									#404
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Strawman. No elections.

whatever.

	17-03-2004 22:35									#405
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH No, I just want to hear from those who oppose the US-led liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan what it is they would do instead. Talk about it at the UN, allow the dirty-tricks types to start assassinating targets (once we actually recruit and train enough agents), support despotic governments that crack down on terrorists?

Funny, how many opposed the operations in Afghanistan? The French right? Oh no, they have troops there. Or the Germans? no, they support them..Canada? Whoops, troops......

You forget the point that many of us don;t think Iraq is part of the war on terror period, or that it has done far more to support AQ than hurt it. Or maybe it is one of your inabilities, to ever understand that idea.

	17-03-2004 22:38									#406
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Do you ever actually answer any questions, I'm getting tired of the smart-ass bullshit?

	17-03-2004 22:40									#407
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Not that I disagree with Kid on this one (did I just say that?), but one could argue the 2002 mid term elections were in fact those elections.

Wherein senators not supportive of touhg stances on terror were voted out.

(stirring the GePap, Che, Kidicious pot :lol

	17-03-2004 22:42									#408
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Do you ever answer a question?

Only valid ones.

I support the operation ion Afghanistant, think it has been botched due to lack of resources.

I think we went into Iraq with lack of resources due to massive mistakes in the planning and incorrect ideology driving the effort.

I think not enough has been done in the basics of anti-terrorism that will really improve security.

All in all, the direction taken in calling this a "war" and spending more on the military side than the real security side (the criminal aspects as well) has made the war on terror akin to the war on drugs.

	17-03-2004 22:42									#409
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker 3) If Al Queda attacks the US before the elections, it will have the opposite affect, as Americans will vote for Bush just to spite them

I agree. It's unfortunate that we are the type of people to cut off our own nose to spite our face.

	17-03-2004 22:42									#410
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Oh, nice angry addition Spenciepoo.

	17-03-2004 22:46									#411
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Do you NOT see the difference between voting for candidate that the terrorists want because you are scared, and voting for the candidate that they don't want because you don't want them to try that crap again.

What about voting for the candidate you want and hang what the terrorists want?

	17-03-2004 22:49									#412
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AQ will claim victory regardless of what happens and what the truth is. Yes, they will claim to have driven the Spanish from Iraq and many, probably most, people in the Arab world will believe them. That doesn't make it true. Perception of reality and reality are different things.

So, instead of crapping your pants about what the terrorists want or think, try being loyal to the truth. Hell, it's not like most of you cared what the terrorists wanted or thought before now.

	17-03-2004 22:52									#413
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quote: AQ will claim victory regardless of what happens and what the truth is. Yes, they will claim to have driven the Spanish from Iraq and many, probably most, people in the Arab world will believe them. That doesn't make it true. Perception of reality and reality are different things.

Perception can become reality (or rather influence policy that changes reality). That's the part that worries me.

Having said that, I otherwise agree with you and the others trying to explain to Kid that his scenario (terror attack -> Kid votes for Bush) is nuts.

-Arrian

	17-03-2004 22:55									#414
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Only valid ones.

Since you've answered it now I have to assume it was valid in your eyes. What an honour!

Why dont you try actually answering questions and putting forth alternatives (as below) in place of the bullshit you usually spout?

quote: I support the operation ion Afghanistant, think it has been botched due to lack of resources. I think we went into Iraq with lack of resources due to massive mistakes in the planning and incorrect ideology driving the effort.

So in other words you support the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq but you feel you could have planned it better.

quote: I think not enough has been done in the basics of anti-terrorism that will really improve security.

Please enlighten us. I am dying to hear an expert opinion on anti-terrorism.

Oh, excuse me, what are your credentials again?

quote: All in all, the direction taken in calling this a "war" and spending more on the military side than the real security side (the criminal aspects as well) has made the war on terror akin to the war on drugs.

Care to provide evidence for this biased ****?

	17-03-2004 22:56									#415
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Oh, nice angry addition Spenciepoo.

anytime pap

	17-03-2004 22:58									#416
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Perception of reality and reality are different things.

Based on your political experience, I would have thought that you would have a good understanding that is not true.

	17-03-2004 23:14									#417
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Since you've answered it now I have to assume it was valid in your eyes. What an honour! Why dont you try actually answering questions and putting forth alternatives (as below) in place of the bullshit you usually spout?

Maybe becuase I do not care too much about the feelings of people here, or people who I know I share very few if any common notions?

quote: So in other words you support the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq but you feel you could have planned it better.

Yes and no. Yes for Afghanistan. No for Iraq, insofar as I still do not view Iraq as central in any way to the battle vs AQ, and in fact,saw it as imflamatory to that battle. I would have supported a much better planned invasion of Iraq for other reasons. I laid out my Iraq position out very detailed before the war- Most people ignored that, as they ususally ignore points they don't like (that includes me).

quote: Please enlighten us. I am dying to hear an expert opinion on anti-terrorism. Oh, excuse me, what are your credentials again?

And yours? Oh, I forgot, you headed the CIA from 24303 to 45670, no?

quote: Care to provide evidence for this biased ****?

Bombings in Madrid, Bali, Istanbul, Iraq, Morrocco, Tunisia, OBL still out, reports on conitnuing security lapses not only at RR lines, but airports still, and lets not even get into highways and ports. And then no reports yet from the 9/11 commissions, and I eould like to here good news about greater information sharing between US agencies and International agencies.

The successes I have seen against AQ and its leadership and financing do not seem to have been followed up, or their effects have worn off significantly.

* GePap thins that is all biased bs for Spenciepoo anyway, but what does the good all pap now?

	17-03-2004 23:33									#418
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GePap, et other Bush haters, what is your plan to "defeat" al Qaeda?

	17-03-2004 23:36									#419
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Undermine their source of followers by forcing Israel to deal fairly with the Palestinians, stop supporting dictatorial regimes in the Moslem world, and hunt the bastards down everywhere in the world an brng them to justice.

	17-03-2004 23:46									#420
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quote: Originally posted by Ned GePap, et other Bush haters, what is your plan to "defeat" al Qaeda?

Alocate the necessary recources to fighting AQ and counterterrorism unlike this admin.