23-03-2000 05:48									#31
	Inflate your Upload Space

I like chinese food, I hope we don't go to war with china.. Then I won't know if the food I eat is poisoned or not

	23-03-2000 06:08									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks for explaining the origin of your handle to me, and excuse me for not researching the intricacies of it myself...

As I mentioned, what it really comes down to is this: Do people find it offensive? I do, others might or might not, you don't.

And you can't deny that a handle like that will certainly expose you to criticism.

Speer's handle is the kernel problem though, and it's apparently being decided upon by the admins and others, so I'll await the white smoke signal now.

	23-03-2000 07:31									#33
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Actually, Legman, surprisingly (to you, not me, since there are a lot more radicals than me here) I haven't really had much criticism if any at all in my 9 or so months here. There's been one thread in the OTF asking the origin, and I abliged. This is only the second time my handle has come into question.

	23-03-2000 11:21									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Some have pointed out the initials of my handle are, ahem, interesting. Hope my real identity doesn't get discovered


------------------
Founder of the People's Republic of Topics (PROT)

Convenor of the Threadjacking Appreciation Society (new members welcome)

	23-03-2000 13:49									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

AH, really Alex?

I stand by my previous statement. This is bullshit! If I name myself Reagan, will people come out of the woodwork protesting my name?

I think this is extreamly unfair, and will continue to no end to defend Albert Speer in this regard, and if it is taken away, then I guess they have added to my sig (the Free.. part).

------------------
"Instead of finding themselves oblidged to conform to a fixed constitution, they have the power to make a constitution which shall conform to their designs. Nothing in heaven or upon earth can serve as a control on them."
-Edmund Burke
Reflections on the Revolution in France

"Why wouldn't I agree with you? You're one of the smarter ones... and I'm not dumb"
-Ming

"rules were made to get around"
-Ming

Free YYYH and Free Spink!
We shall never forget!

	23-03-2000 17:51									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Imran, you gotta remember.. There was a login named Hitler, and it was deleted after the first post made. The standards are there, but they're very low. Myself, I've never heard of Albert Speer. It could be my next door neighbors name for all I know. Just let the past go, worry about what will happen.

	24-03-2000 00:31									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It's just a name......

"Paedophile"
"Childkiller"
"Raper of babies"
"Your daughter's rapist"


All usernames possible to use at Apolyton. I could come up with hundreds more. What's the most foul perversion we could accuse a moderator/administrator of in no more than 25 characters?

A lengthy tract urging the visitors to Apolyton to kill all members of ethnic minorities after first raping and torturing them? Who's going to be the first to argue that this is simply a harmless collection of words?

Sticks and stones may break your bones. Words can spark genocide.

I think you've grasped my point. I'm not letting this go. Speer's name is offensive.

	24-03-2000 02:04									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Lazarus, what if I find your name offensive, change yours! NOW!

If you're going to, you'll need a lot of support, and, well, most probably won't support you frankly. If simply a name is that offensive to you, you should read some of his philosophies.

You're fighting an uphill war, and you can easily be a victim with the word "Gimp" in your name.

And if you really think that just because someone with a handle urging someone to kill people that the readers will actually do it, I don't know what planet you're living on. And besides, the people who use handles like the ones you mentioned above will not be taken seriously anyway and just be accused of being double logins.

Speer is just one person, but the names you came up with there are general and can refer to more than one person.

	24-03-2000 02:48									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oh cobblers, Mao. Get a grip. If anyone seriously said they found my username offensive I'd change it without a second of hesitation. I've ditched handles before and I'd do so again.

I've read plenty of Speer's philosohies. Those that I haven't challenged head on I have ridiculed consistently over the last 9 months. It's still that name that bugs me most, however.

That paragraph you wrote about people being driven to kill by a username is the most willfully thick statement I've seen in months. My point is that the expressions "It's just a name" or "It's just words" are pretty daft in the face of the language of hatred. The names I suggested are an example of handles that would never be tolerated, highlighting the fact that the real issue here is "Where do you draw the line?".

As for fighting an uphill war? The fact that the issue of Speer's name is now being seriously discussed by the administration suggests that the summit is in sight.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Lazarus and the Gimp (edited March 23, 2000).]</font>

	24-03-2000 03:13									#40
	Support Apolyton

[qoute]the language of hatred[/quote]

And who is to decide what is hate and what isn't? You?

Lazarus, if you really conform that easily to the will of others, I wonder what kind of philosophy you have. If you're that afraid of offending others, you're doing so right now by being afraid of offending others. Be yourself, don't worry about what others think. There is common courtesy, but that only goes so far.

	24-03-2000 03:15									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

oh, and as for how the "summit is in reach", gimme a break. I can start a discussion here about the how this site sucks or how I don't like the colors of the site and it would be "discussed seriously". That's just what the admin. says. If this does go through, the "vets" in the OTF will get outraged.

	24-03-2000 03:57									#42
	Remove this text

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>If this does go through, the "vets" in the OTF will get outraged.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Oh? And who might those be? Anyone with King or Emperor in front of their name? Anyone registered before Feb '99?

And, more important, why should anyone care that those self proclaimed "vets" will get outraged? If those "free speech" advocates don't want to take other people's feelings into account they just can ...........

	24-03-2000 04:13									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I for one would not be outraged if the guy had to change his handle... one can always promise him to transfer his post count and/or edit his date of registry or something similar, if he cares about it.

Why delete Hitler, but not Albert Speer?

	24-03-2000 04:44									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>And, more important, why should anyone care that those self proclaimed "vets" will get outraged? If those "free speech" advocates don't want to take other people's feelings into account they just can ...........
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

You should care because the "vets" (which I consider only to be OTF regulars basically since I don't use the Civ2 boards much anymore) are responsible for the majority of the posts on this site, and it is them who will title a thousand threads "Free Albert Speer, we will never forget!"

And besides, if you can argue to make it so that he has to change his handle here, I bet you anything that as soon as a decision is made that many more threads will be posted to try to get Albert Speer his handle back.

And what do you want Dan or Mark to say? "No, shut up, we're not listening to you"? No, obviously not, that would mean you would not visit the site anymore, so they'll tell you that they're working on it...

	24-03-2000 04:47									#45
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Narck on 03-23-2000 06:13 PM</font>
I for one would not be outraged if the guy had to change his handle... one can always promise him to transfer his post count and/or edit his date of registry or something similar, if he cares about it.

Why delete Hitler, but not Albert Speer?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Wasn't "Hitler" a double login anyway? And if someone were to actually name himself Hitler, how seriously would he be taken?

	24-03-2000 04:54									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>And besides, if you can argue to make it so that he has to change his handle here, I bet you anything that as soon as a decision is made that many more threads will be posted to try to get Albert Speer his handle back
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>That's why Apolyton has anti-spamming rules and 2 OT moderators to enforce them.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Wasn't "Hitler" a double login anyway? And if someone were to actually name himself Hitler, how seriously would he be taken?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>1. Yes. 2. Not very, but that's not the point. The point is that that login was extremely offensive and therefore had to be deleted anyway.

Now for me, I don't find the Albert Speer login as offensive as a Hitler login, but still offensive enough to support a request to get rid of it.

Having said that, I'm not as offended by the login as some apparently are.

	24-03-2000 05:09									#47
	Tired of ads?

Mao... would you please stop creating threads in the OTF advertising this thread.

This thread, and others related to this site, are here to help the clutter problem on the OTF.


------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	24-03-2000 05:11									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

D'OH!! I swear, when I first came here, I really thought nobody would know what my name was, except maybe two people... I seriously underestimated the average IQ of this place

But on a more serious note, I do NOT support Stalin or Stalinism, and just thought it was a cool name that was sort of an 'inside joke'. And please spare me all the crap about it 'not being a joke'. I know it isn't, but your b*tching isn't gonna change anything, so keep it to yourselves.

	24-03-2000 05:11									#49
	Tired of ads?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>You should care because the "vets" (which I consider only to be OTF regulars basically since I don't use the Civ2 boards much anymore) are responsible for the majority of the posts on this site, and it is them who will title a thousand threads "Free Albert Speer, we will never forget!"
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well, Ming will be working overtime then... And I don't see how there will be less posts from your precious "vets", didn't happen after the Spink-YYYH episode, did it?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>And what do you want Dan or Mark to say? "No, shut up, we're not listening to you"? No, obviously not, that would mean you would not visit the site anymore, so they'll tell you that they're working on it...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I for one don't believe they are that opportunistic...

	24-03-2000 05:26									#50
	Support Apolyton

I find the name offensive; just read lazarus' posts and you'll see my point of view. i just thought that i should support him to show that SOMEBODY is listening and supports him. i happen to be a jew, and i really think that not only should neonazi names be removed, all offensive names should be removed.

	24-03-2000 05:43									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Many blacks might agree that the use of "boy" in your name is offensive

	24-03-2000 05:44									#52
	Put an end to popups!

i believe it to be one he11-of-a-situation when the word is not allowed! the word? HE11!!!

is it also one HE11-of-a-situation when a complete effing idiot like AS is not able to use his handle!

it's a handle people! and with his handle he has pissed a lot of people off!

let him and his handle die an ignominius death...

ok... AS and his silly handle aside...

golly, gee whiz guys!!! why don't you just take the list of banned words from george carlin in the 70's? it would make your jobs a lot easier, and then we could use the word he11 again!

to ban this word is ridiculous!!!

which words can i use?

fart?
come?
****?
jizz?
how about barf? i find barf more offensive than he11!
jerk?
boink?
lope?
stroke?
finger?
*****?
fondle?
what a great word... fondle.........
it brings back mammories... excuuuuuuuuse me... memories......................

WHERE DOES THE LIST OF WORDS THAT ARE OFFENSIVE TO SOME IDIOTS END???????

I SHALL NEVER FORGET -HELL-


I WAS THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the3.14rt

------------------
how can you be in two places at once
when you're not anywhere at all?
---------------------------------
We now return you to our regular programming...
a thrilling tale from yesteryear...
which is already in progress!!!

	24-03-2000 05:51									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Everybody who's complaining: WE DON'T LIVE IN MEXICO!! Nobody is making you post at these boards!! A little thing called FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION allows us to call ourselves offensive things for a little bulletin board that has no meaning in the real world. If you find the names too offensive to let let peopel alone, then LEAVE!!! Better yet, just ignore them, and realize the fact that simply deleting all such logins will NOT elimate all the people here, or in real life, who believe in Nazism, or Stalinism, or anything!!! Jeez...

	24-03-2000 05:57									#54
	Remove this text

Yeah, Djug! And Drew, I think Hell isn't censored.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>1. Yes. 2. Not very, but that's not the point. The point is that that login was extremely offensive and therefore had to be deleted anyway.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

So why wasn't "Stalin" deleted? Hmmm? I find someone named Stalin MUCH more offensive than someone named Albert Speer. Like I said before, this is utter and complete bullshit.

	24-03-2000 05:59									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think most agree Djug. It is the arbitrary nature that some of us are having trouble with. The most innoculous of things are banned for some reason while truly offensive language remains.


------------------
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." H.S.T.

	24-03-2000 06:14									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

imran...

i'm sure he11 was censored...

it was found to be offensive to the... the... the... well, i'm not sure...

but we can't use it anymore...

nice talking to you again imran...

i look forward to the next football season!

the3.14rt

------------------
how can you be in two places at once
when you're not anywhere at all?
---------------------------------
We now return you to our regular programming...
a thrilling tale from yesteryear...
which is already in progress!!!

	24-03-2000 06:33									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Well, Ming will be working overtime then... And I don't see how there will be less posts from your precious "vets", didn't happen after the Spink-YYYH episode, did it?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Huey, ya know what? Shut up about my liberal use of the world "vet". You make me sound like MJ! Well I'm not! God, maybe if you'd read my posts you'd see that only people I consider vets are people on the OTF because that's mainly where I hang out? But ya know what? I'm gonna drop. I don't care. It isn't going to work, you're not going to get him to change. And if you do, where does it stop? HUH? But it's not going to happen. Forget it. Take it up with the admin. But I do warn you of this, if this does pass through, it won't be taken too lightly.

And, for the record, after YYYH and Spink left there was a huge run of threads!

And if a thread was moved to the Apolyton forums, it'd only be courtous of DanQ and MarkG to respond, doesn't mean they're seriously considering it. It's not opportunistic, it's just being nice to people who visit their site!

But I don't care anymore. If anyone is so judgemental as to only judge someone by the name they use on a friggin' internet site adn not get to know them, then I frankly don't want to get to know them either. GOOD DAY SIR!

	24-03-2000 20:57									#58
	Put an end to popups!

So much my suggestion for a "campaign of silence" against AS...

There's an element of common sense and civility missing from most the arguments here. This is Mark's and Dan's place. They make the rules. Some you will disagree with them. Most of their decisions, like this one, have no easy "right" or "wrong" answer. As such, there is an appearance of arbitrariness. Those of you who skirt the edge of the rules should periodically expect to have a decision go the way you don't like it. You can argue all day about AS's "rights" to act like an imbecile, but in the end Mark and Dan must make the call whether or not they are going to put up with it.

Personally, if a guy came to my forums with a purposefully disruptive handle, I'd show him the door.

	25-03-2000 01:57									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Mao- calm down. You're scaring me.

The administrators and moderators are maintaining a very obvious silence here. How about a few personal opinions being aired? Surely enough objections have now been aired for the matter of Speer's name to receive some kind of decision, whichever way it goes?

As far as I'm concerned, one single statement from the admin will end this, whichever way it goes. I have no intention of pursuing any kind of crusade should the result disappoint me, and as far as I know those who agree with me on this point would probably respect the decision too. I'm also well aware that the result would not be so peaceful should the result go the other way.

Could we have some answers or opinions from the administrators and moderators, please?

	25-03-2000 02:12									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

OK, I'm calm Personally, I think they are either just ignoring this thread, discussing it amongst themselves, or reading this thread while maintaining silence. Whichever it is, we can't have that much effect on the decision with our arguments here anyway. If you really want to make a point with the admin. you should e-mail them. They don't check the threads daily.