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From a post by MarkG in the Apolyton Forum:
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Originally posted by Monk on 03-20-2000 04:41 PM
If you won't mind a bit criticism Dan, I think you're -slightly- twisting some proportions here. On the Off-Topic you have allowed three thousand posts by a person calling himself "Albert Speer", and we've seen another poster blaming the "faggots" for the world's problems on more than one occasion. If you really want to keep offensive things of the board, you ought to look at those instead
on the case of Speer, I dont recall the last time I got a mail from someone complaining about it. I also dont recall reading someone post on the forums complaining that we let Speer post...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Since I know I'm not the only one who is offended by the use of the name of a Nazi war-criminal, I would ask all of you to mail MarkG and/or DanQ with a complaint about it. It's about time people know that using such a name is NOT funny...
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Somehow the  eludes me...
But forget it, it's obvious that the powers that be just don't care... Let's just wait till someone drops by with a handle like Himmler, Eichmann, Mengele or what have you... After all, it's just a name...
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I'm sure everyone who is offended by the use of that name in a login will come and post here or even take the time to mail us, no?
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IMHO all this nazi BS is taking more and more (and too much) place in the OT forum. And, as a german, I feel quite upset that someone is using a handle like that. I know a lot of people who suffered under the nazis and who had ancestors that dies in concentration camps. A lot of people died because people like the real Albert Speer continued to make war.
If "Albert Speer" would post that stuff he posts under that name in Germany, he'd sure get some troubles (there's a law against "Volksverhetzung" .
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
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Actually I don't really mind "Albert Speer" posting, I just wanted to point out the weirdness that you are allowed to imitate Nazis but not allowed to say "hell".
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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You guys are hilarious - Albert Speer was no war criminal (actually, I don't really believe in the concept of a "war criminal" being tried by foreign nations, but I digress). He did everything he could, near the end of the war, to not follow Hitler's insane orders.
And before you pull up instances of him supposedly supporting stuff like killing Jews, and slave labor, well, he was no more a criminal in this regard than FDR (criminal b/c of murder - Pearl Harbor - and putting American citizens in concentration camps) and Stalin (murdering his own people). Or what about Mao-Tse Tung, or Chiang Kai-Shek? No one calls them war criminals. And what about Allied soldiers who shot German soldiers after they surrendered - are they criminals too?
But if someone logged on as "Stalin" or "FDR" or something like that, there would be no problem. This is an insane double standard.
You could log on as "Hitler" and I'd have to problem with it...
Oh, and Karsten, I think Germany is wrong about their laws prohibiting free speech, but I digress again 
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Well I find the name "Albert Speer" offensive. I've made that abundantly clear on many occasions.
I first visited Apolyton in June last year after it was recommended to me as an excellent forum (I later discovered this to be true). However, on my first visit I encountered a particularly revolting piece of white supremacist excremental drooling from "Joe"and any number of posts sporting the name "Albert Speer". I left the site in disgust and vowed never to return to a place that harboured Nazi sympathisers. I very nearly didn't.
In fact I returned a month or so later, lured back by a link on alpha.owo, and have been here ever since, reassured by MarkG's change of stance on such posts. What concerns me is how many others react as I initially did? There's around 5000 registered members on Apolyton, but where are they all? How many good people just pack up in disgust and leave?
In isolation, most of Speer's posts aren't that bad. Some of them are highly suspect- the majority aren't. However, they can't be viewed in isolation from the name of the slaving Nazi whoremonger that adorns them, and it makes for ugly reading. I'm not trying to get the kid banned. If he was allocated a new username (with a transferred postcount- I'm sure this can be done), I would certainly feel much happier, and I'm sure many others would agree.
For the record, and for the sake of balance, I think "Djugashvili" is a pretty crass name too. However I don't find it as offensive. If the extreme right of Apolyton would gain some sort of satisfaction in claiming a double-standard on my part, then I'm not going to spoil their fun. Frankly I've got far bigger concerns to deal with right now.
Yes- I'd love to see that name gone. It's crass and insensitive to people's feelings. Speer talks a lot about the benefits of peer pressure. How about testing whether this works and seeking to persuade him to drop this repulsive handle?
Surely it is within the powers of the administrators to transfer his postcount to a new handle, if this is important to him? I'm well aware that not everyone is prepared to drop a substantial postcount like I did, and I'd like to see as persuasive an argument as possible to be offered to Speer.
How about it? Is Speer ready to drop the Nazi tag?
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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DF, this is an internet site, it doesn't matter how logical your arguments are, people will still be offended and will still speak up about it. You're not going to stop that. Society has many double standards that we must all abide by if we want to be a member of said society, it's just the way it works, it's not right or fair, but that's just the way it is.
Oh, and in case you're wondering, there is more than one Mao in China.
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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We also have to remember that AS (the guy on the website) is actually a self-proclaimed facist, whereas I'm not a communist
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I agree 100.00% with Lazarus and the Gimp. The handle Albert Speer is highly offensive, not so much the actual content of his posts, or the ones I've bothered to read anyway.
This weekend I visited my parents and surfed Apolyton when my Mother entered and out of curiosity she followed me scrolling through threads for a while. I had a bit of explaining to do when she saw Albert Speer's handle on the screen... A handle like that (apart from being offensive to the regular posters) gives the wrong impression to outsiders and might scare off first time visitors before they learn what Apolyton is really about.
And as mentioned by others, Djugashvili being the surname of the biggest tyrant and mass murderer in history, known under the alias of Stalin, is also incredibly offensive, IMO anyway. The reason there's no fuss about it is that most people don't get the connection to Stalin, but it's still way out there.
Mao who just posted here isn't one of my all time favorites either. It's a slap in the face to the millions of victims of the Cultural Revolution and the people of Tibet.
What's the purpose of these three handles anyway? Next we'll have a Saddam Hussein, a Pol Pot and an Augusto Pinochet - yup, nice cosy place, Apolyton.
I like the idea of having them change their handle and being allowed to keep their post count.
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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Like I said, Mao does not have to be Mao Tse-Dong. What is your problem? Do you know how many people are named Mao in a country of 1.2 billion? If you choose to associate with Mao Tse-Dong, that's your own problem, no way in hell I'd change mine. Mao could be my real name and I have every right to it. I didn't even use a last name (I did this purposely just so that I wouldn't be associated too much with Mao Tse-Dong). Do you claim that every Adolf you see is Hitler? Every Josef a Stalin?
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ColdWizard
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it seems superficial to get worked up over the name somebody has selected to be their login. They're not expressing the same beliefs of the people they named their login after are they?
After all "what's in a name?"
------------------
This space for rent
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>You guys are hilarious - Albert Speer was no war criminal
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That's wrong. He was minister of war and thanks to Speers excellent organizing skills the germany was able to continue the war. He didn't destroy german installations (so he disobeyed Hitler in that point). He was sent to prison for 20 years because of comitting crimes against humanity. I found this quote of the real speer
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"Ich habe einem Regime gedient, dessen eigentliche Energie auf die Menschenausrottung gerichtet war".
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"I served a regime, that spent it's energy on extermination of humans"
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In Chinese, the name mentioned first is the family name, so the name Mao is certainly not a common name like e.g. Chang or Li.
By choosing a handle like Mao, you expose yourself to criticism from people who oppose totalitarian regimes and despots.
You did choose it to inspire an association to Mao Zedong, didn't you? Well some people find that offensive, and I guess that's what it comes down to.
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These discussions are now being taken up via email between Markos, Ming and myself with another concerned member of these forums regarding the Speer handle.
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Dan; Apolyton CS
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goofydrew
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so cal, u.s.a.
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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ColdWizard...
you are absolutely right.
"What's in a name? That which we call a piece of poop
By any other name would smell like a piece of poop." -Shakespeare(or that's what he woulda said if he had ever encountered AS)
the3.14rt
------------------
how can you be in two places at once
when you're not anywhere at all?
---------------------------------
We now return you to our regular programming...
a thrilling tale from yesteryear...
which is already in progress!!!
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Legman on 03-22-2000 08:55 AM</font>
In Chinese, the name mentioned first is the family name, so the name Mao is certainly not a common name like e.g. Chang or Li.
By choosing a handle like Mao, you expose yourself to criticism from people who oppose totalitarian regimes and despots.
You did choose it to inspire an association to Mao Zedong, didn't you? Well some people find that offensive, and I guess that's what it comes down to.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
No! I didn't! Would anyone like to enlighten him about my handle as I've done so many times before?
Fine, I'll tell you. This is a CivII site! I came here because in a recent game (actually now it's been a few months) I was saved by Chinese allies and their leader was Mao, so I used this handle in tribute. God, maybe you should talk to me before assuming what I represent and what you think of me. I'm so tired of people judging a book plainly by its cover.
True, Mao is a last name, but so what!? There are friggin' 1.2 BILLION PEOPLE IN CHINA!!! AT LEAST A FEW HUNDRED FAMILIES HAVE MAO AS THEIR LAST NAME TOO!!!
UGH! Speer and Djuga (to a lesser extent) actually support facism and communism respectively, I don't support communism! Maybe if you'd talked to me you'd know that instead of just looking at the name and making assumptions!
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21-03-2000 19:39
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