 |
| |
|
|
adaMada
|
 |
"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:13
|
|
I personally find the name offensive, and think it should be changed/banned/whatever. This is a gameing site, and while I don't mind a bit of fireing back and forth, things that can easily be found offinsive to anyone, shouldn't be used. I also remember reading that there was no rule agianst offinsive names. While this is true (as far as I'm aware), there is a rule regarding offinsive posts, so this should apply to that rule.
Also, Ming: I know sammyboy7 well, and on his behaf I can tell you that the 'boy' in his name has nothing to do with race. When he signed up, he thought that sammyboy7 sounded good.
------------------
adaMada
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by adaMada (edited March 24, 2000).]</font>
|
|
| |
|
|
|
I have yet to respond here, cause I was waiting to see if there is any consensous on the topic. having not read all the posts, is there one?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 03-24-2000 08:02 PM</font>
I have yet to respond here, cause I was waiting to see if there is any consensous on the topic. having not read all the posts, is there one?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
No there isn't, but that was hardly to expect. But what I've seen here is, IMHO, a difference of opinions between Americans and Europeans (broad generalisation  ). But I also have a feeling that a lot of people (including me) simply don't understand why there even should be a discussion about if a nazi handle should be allowed on Apolyton. Anyway, I hope you and Dan come up with an answer soon...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao
|
|
Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
|
|
This is a gaming site, true, but when's the last time Albert Speer posted in an on-topic forum? He debates mostly in the OTF, if he does post in the on-topic, then you could be offended. The OTF has actually accepted him more or less...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
I'd dispute the fact of Albert's acceptance. If you take a look at those unhappy at his choice of handle you'll see some familiar names.
To be brutal, the only reason I have never tried e-mailing the administrators about it is that, given the first impressions I formed of the policies of Apolyton, I thought I'd be wasting my time.
Don't misunderstand me here. Apolyton is a great site, the vast majority of the people found here are wonderful, and all the moderators and administrators are (in my experience) a fine bunch. However, Apolyton has something of a reputation of tolerating nazis. It's sad but true. The good points far outweigh the bad, but this particular bad point really sticks in my throat.
Do you accept nazis, do you attempt to reform them, do you ignore them and hope they go away, or do you throw bricks at them? I suppose we just have to decide which category we fall into.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp on 03-25-2000 05:18 AM</font>
However, Apolyton has something of a reputation of tolerating nazis. It's sad but true.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>I dont know were you heard this, or how long you visit Apolyton. But I would lie to remind that Albert has been banned twice for posts of his. It seems to me that his posting habits have change since then, avoiding to post certain ideas of his, at least in the way he used to.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 25, 2000).]</font>
|
|
| |
|
|
|
I first heard it on SMAC at alpha.owo round about May 1999. Out of curiosity I visited shortly after, and on seeing posts by Speer, Joe, Michael Jeszenka and Evan all on the same day I thought the accusation was not entirely unjust.
It's improved vastly since then, but I'd feel a lot happier if these improvements went further. I have friends who have visited Apolyton's forums once only before leaving- unnerved at the sight of Speer's name coupled with pro-fascism sermons. It's good to see you clearly aren't happy with such actions, however. I can sympathise with you on that point.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Back then we(the administrators) thought that tolerance(from our side) along with discussion(from the side of the rest of the posters) was actually going to make such people change their views, saving us from resorting to "vacations". Didnt exactly worked out. We then decide to put some limits. Everyone can have their ideals but this doesnt mean that you can spread it here trough hate posts.
As for your friends you mention: if they left our site cause they saw a few posts of Albert on the off-topic forum, then frankly these are not the kind of visitors we target to. our target visitors are civers, and it seems to me that there arent any civers who will ignore the 10 sections, the 7 hosted sites and the 30+ on-topic forums for a few posts in the OT
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao
|
|
Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
|
|
OK, if you don't like Speer, no one's forcing you to talk to him. Just ignore him, not like he ever posts anything on-topic these days anyway. And about tolerating Nazis...what's so bad about a Nazi? Are you only saying that for the simple fact that they are Nazis? That's not a good enough argument. If you wish to engage in a logical discussion about why Nazis are bad, I'm sure many would a oblige, but just saying "He's bad because he's a Nazi" is not a good enough reason. Why should we try to reform him? What right do we have to try to change someone else? What right do you have to try to change him, what has he done to you? Have you talked to him? Is the only reason you resent him because of his name?
It still doesn't make sense to me. If you don't like him, ignore him. He's not bothering you. And the internet is supposed to be free, not banning everything you find offensive.
DISCLAIMER: Mao is in no way condoning the acts of Nazis with this post.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao
|
|
Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
|
|
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by adaMada on 03-25-2000 05:23 PM</font>
I've heard a lot of people saying that why ban/change Speer, when there is a username called Stalin. Real easy solution… ban/change both.
Just because I believe that Speer's handle has to go, dosen't meen that Stalin's can stay…
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
...or leave both of them alone...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
again, i take lazarus' stand, ming. if anyone finds my name offensive, i will change it.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Djugashvili
|
|
by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
|
|
Am I not considered Stalin?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao
|
|
Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
|
|
Nah, there was another one whose name was "Stalin", not his real name like you
|
|
| |
|
|
|
In one of those strange coincidences, Off-topic has just had another slough of highly dubious threads. No matter....
MarkG- the assumption that the people I mentioned only read off-topic was wrong. You have to accept that the sight of Speer's name on one forum may drag down the image of an entire site to an extent. Besides, I am a civer, and I am offended by it.
Mao- No. I've debated why Naziism is evil countless times, and I'm not doing so here. This thread is remaining very firmly focussed on the subject. Anyway, coming from you the question was purely rhetorical. I don't believe for one moment you actually need it spelled out to you.
As for your other points, I'm going to play the Apolyton rules. Freedom of speech, as we are frequently reminded, does not exist here due to the restrictions of the site owners. This is purely a question of what the admin consider acceptable. After all, usernames have been deleted before.
Secondly- as far as ignoring threads goes.....
I frequently use fairly ripe language here, and get away with it. However, if I use such language in a thread title I know it will probably be deleted and I would receive a ban. This is because the administrators and moderators accept that it's very difficult to ignore such things when they stare back at you from the menu before you even open the thread.
I think that it's hoped that this thread will quietly fizzle out and be forgotten, until the next time. I'm not going to let this go, however. Whichever way it goes, I want a decision from the administrators, and I will accept it whichever decision is made.
As far as I can see, there is no middle ground. Is Speer's username acceptable, or is it not?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Freedom of speech, as we are frequently reminded, does not exist here due to the restrictions of the site owners.
Actually that is something we never say. What we do say is that freedom of speech(on our forums at leadt) does not mean freedom to insults, flames and hatred comments.
Anyway, since it seems like everyone is waiting for an answer from us...
We had made the decision long ago and we will keep it this time to. As I had said in the past, if we had known what the background is behind that login, and we had noticed it it's creation, it would have banned, asking him to choose another one. Still, this didnt happen. Banning the name NOW would be in contradiction of everything we have done so far. Leting this name for this person be NOW, is an expression of saying that everyone is accepted on Apolyton if he follows certain common sense rules. AS hasn't goten a "vacation" for a long time.
I will say it again. If you feel that he or someone else is posting insults, flames and hatred comments and we are leting him do that, please mail us. Be sure that we will take action.
PS. funny how you are "tolerating nazis" when you are if you not leting someone post whatever stupid idea is stuck in his mind, and you are "oppressing freedom of speech" when you're not...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 26, 2000).]</font>
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao
|
|
Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
|
|
well, it's over now, MarkG the god as spoken. And Lazarus, I've explained why I chose my handle, if you don't want to listen, tough!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
I never had any objection against your username to start with Mao. In any event I was always perfectly happy with your explanation. I've no idea why you're so aggressive on this point.
MarkG- I appreciate the fact that you're in a no-win situation, but thanks for taking the time to respond. Case closed, to coin a phrase from our beloved moderator.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mwahhh!
Big snogs back at you, Tiger.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
 |
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:13
|
|
Edit - Oh, well, I didn't see all the second page threads, my browser stopped loading part way down. I guess I'll just have to jump AS everytime he posts pro-nazi garbage. 
I also agree with Lazarus and sammyboy - the real Albert Speer was a convicted war criminal. The poster Albert Speer is an attention grubbing self-proclaimed fascist who has recently made posts denying well known aspects of the holocaust. He has also made numerous other pro-Nazi, or Nazi revisionist posts. His undeniable intent is to create a mental association with the war criminal Speer - it is not, like Mao, a coincidence, nor a less commonly known name like Djugashvili.
Would Feliks Dzherzhinski be OK for a commie inspired name?
Obviously, the poster Hitler was soon gone, but where on the scale from Hitler to whoever do you draw the line? How about if a group of neo-fascists show up here, and take as handles the names of the signatories of the Wannsee protocol? Eichmann or Göring might not cut it, but how about Reinhard Heydrich or Ernst Kaltenbrunner? Joseph Goebbels? Joachim von Ribbentrop?
It is NOT a free speech question - it's a question of what is acceptable on a private site. It will be interesting to see who pushes this limit next, since every other limit and rule gets pushed in off-topic.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MichaeltheGreat (edited March 30, 2000).]</font>
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao
|
|
Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
|
|
MtG hit on an important subject, this is a private site. We really have no ruling here, Mark and Dan know, and it appears they will not act. MtG, you have to remember that if Mark and Dan were facists (no offense to you guys, just hypothetical), we could all get diabled. This is private, so if they wished, they could disable everyone but AS. I agree with MtG mostly though. Anyway, I only have Mao, not Mao Tse-Dong, there are other families named Mao in China, I know of one for sure at least.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mao, you forget easily
I made our final reply to the issue on March 26, 2000 06:58 and yours was the first post to reply to it 
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:13.
Apolyton Time is 00:13. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
25-03-2000 02:31
|