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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Question, have the Muslims in East Timor been massacred by the Catholic Majority after independence? What happened to them? |
No.
"
Section II. Status of Religious Freedom
Legal/Policy Framework
The new Constitution formally replaced the UNTAET regulations and administration of the country on May 20, 2002. The Constitution was ratified in March 2002 and went into effect in the first hour of the date of independence, May 20, 2002. Indonesian legal requirements that each citizen be a member of one of Indonesia’s officially recognized religions no longer apply under the independent Government. Police cadets receive training in equal enforcement of the law and non-discrimination, including religious non-discrimination. The UNTAET regulations provided for freedom of religion and the UNTAET generally respected this right in practice. The administration at all levels generally protected this right, and there were no arrests in cases related to societal religious violence or attacks against churches and mosques (see Section III). The Constitution was ratified in March 2002, and requires the State to recognize and to respect different religious denominations, which are free to organize and carry out their activities, as long as such activities are conducted in accordance with the Constitution and the law. Under the Constitution, the Government also is responsible for promoting cooperation among the different religious denominations. In addition, the Constitution provides for freedom of conscience, religion, and worship for all persons, and stipulates that no one shall be persecuted or discriminated against on the basis of his or her religious convictions.
The Constitution provides for the separation of church and state, however, during the popular consultations for the Constitution, many members of the public expressed their desire for the Constitution to declare Roman Catholicism as the official religion. Earlier, Bishop Belo, the senior Catholic prelate and a Nobel laureate, had requested the Constituent Assembly not establish a national religion.
There have been allegations that Muslims were unfairly denied the right to vote in the presidential election of April 2002. The voter eligibility rules were clear prior to the election just as they were for the Constituent Assembly election of 2001 and the independence referendum of August 1999. The criteria are: individuals had to be born in the country; or b) individuals born abroad needed at least one parent born in the country; or c) an individual had to have a spouse who met either the conditions of (a) or (b). Religion was never a criterion. If any prospective voters were denied eligibility, it was because they could not meet any of the three clearly and publicly stated criteria.
Roman Catholicism is the dominant religion and the list of designated public holidays reflects this, including Good Friday, Assumption Day, All Saint’s Day, Day of the Immaculate Conception, and Christmas Day.
Restrictions on Religious Freedom
The UNTAET’s policy and practice have contributed to the generally unrestricted practice of religion; however, there have been incidents of violence between religious groups. There were no arrests in cases related to societal religious violence or attacks against churches and mosques (see Section III). The UNTAET’s ability to respond to such attacks was hindered by insufficient prison space and judicial and police resources. In addition the UNTAET’s tendency to encourage local reconciliation rather than punishing offenders was an additional factor behind its decision not to charge perpetrators of religious attacks.
The strong and pervasive influence of the Catholic Church can have an effect on government officials. Representatives of Protestant churches and the Islamic community also have some political influence. In the district of Maliana, a Protestant ministry pastor reported that he applied to the district government in the last year of the UNTAET Administration to rent abandoned property for the purpose of engaging in humanitarian, educational, and religious work. The official in charge, a Catholic, warned that the Catholic Church in the area would oppose such a rental to a Protestant organization, and that it might cause trouble with rank-and-file Catholics. The pastor subsequently withdrew the request to set up a facility in Maliana, choosing instead to file another request after the new Government was installed. At the end of the period covered by this report, the pastor still had not filed another request to set up a facility in Maliana. The pastor has reported good relations with local Catholic priests and the public and has felt more comfortable moving about the district.
There were no reports of religious prisoners or detainees.
Forced Religious Conversion
There were no reports of forced religious conversion, including of minor U.S. citizens who had been abducted or illegally removed from the United States, or of the refusal to allow such citizens to be returned to the United States. "
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/13865.htm
However, Indonesia is fighting with its own Acehnese Muslims, who happen to live in an Indonesian province blessed with fossil fuel supplies, amongst other things.
http://www.refugees.org/news/crisis/indonesia/aceh.htm
And of course, Indonesia is still occupying West Papua.
Plus ca change...
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Bereta_Eder
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Prove NATO's usefulness and raison d'etre after the collapse of the USSR and kill some 3,000 people.
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 19-03-2004 at 08:02
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Bereta_Eder
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The mass exodus of Albanians begun after the bombings started might I remind. They were escaping both the bombs and Milosevic wrath which the bombing simply crystalized after the CIA and the brit equivalant's trained UCK's bombing parades throughout Kosovo. It didn't stop the chasing of Albanians, it facilitated it and it didn't topple Milosevic. The bombings stopped and Milosevic was still in power for quite some time with the people rallied around him like never before. The Serb upriots eventually toppled him.
Apart from that the whole "masterplan" allowed UCK to continue their happy parade of fire to FYROM, having as they thought the support of the west, which it quickly revoked soon after.
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 19-03-2004 at 07:57
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
When the Falklands were invaded I thought a good solution might have been for the UK to offer every single Falkland Islander a million pounds to leave.
That would have cost no lives at all and would have cost, in money, a tiny fraction of the sums expended to wage a war and then to maintain a military presence for decades on the other side of the world.
I feel much the same here. If every Serb in Kosovo was offered a million pounds and access either to Serbia or to another European country it has got to be long odds they would all accept. That would remove a chunk of the tension and make it more likely that the ethnic Albanians and their neighbours could sort out their future without the whole mess starting up again.
But it would be naieve to think that such pragmatism is possible.
Paiktis, I'd suggest you try focusing on the future rather than dwelling on the past. There is just too much historical baggage in your neck of the woods. The people of Cyprus have gained nothing from the polarisation of the last forty years and the people of Yugoslavia have decidedly lost out from the fragmentation there.
We have all commited ourselves to bringing about an ever closer union. The people of Northern Ireland seem, at last, to be realising what that offers. And they are clinging less tenaciously to past grievances. If Greek and Turk, Serb and Croat (as the the French and the German have already done) just wholeheartedly throw their lot in together and stop regarding each other as enemies the world will be a better place.
Sorry to preach. |
I hear you EST loud and clear. But it's hard you know. We're basically an island of democracy in a vast lake of extremism and conservatism bordering on the fundamentalism. Point me out one real democracy apart from Greece in our neighborhood. There is none. And I'm not claiming we're saints. We're as nationalist as any other around us. Maybe it was your fault to take us under your wing. You have helped create a democracy in the middle of extremists and nations which have no notion of democracy. What are we supposed to do?
Help others I guess but it's not easy. Anyway I hear you loud and clear and it's my fervent belief that if Germany and France could do it, we can do it. But without democracies around us it is hard.
For my part I do try and concentrate on the present but it's not very easy, especially when we have to deal with nations whose democracies are a joke.
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'd like to add further to this comment if I may. It was Europe that by insisting that legitimacy doesn't come from a strict adhearence to the dictates of international law and the sovereign equality of nations in Kosovo that opened the door for Bush to legitimately claim his actions were justified in 2003. |
That's why the US (and the UK) was so up for the invasion DD. It helped her create a precedent she was sure to put to good use later on. That's why many people in many countries fought against that. So that such precedent wasn't set.
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Bereta_Eder
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Why should one blame Europe when it was the US/UK which promoted it so bad?
You can only blame some parts of Europe for finally accepting it.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Prevent a bloody tribal civil war. |
By the Albanians against the Serbs?
"[A]s Germans entered Prizren in Kosovo for the first time since World War II, an NBC correspondent reported:
"I was at dinner with a kind Kosovo Muslim family the other night when talk turned to the German NATO troops that rolled into town to make the city the headquarters of its peacekeeping district. The patriarch of the family, a man old enough to remember the last time German troops rolled into Prizren, said they all felt safe now. 'The German soldiers are excellent,' he said. Then he added, 'I should know, I used to be one.' Then he raised his arm in a Nazi salute and said, 'Heil,' and laughed merrily. (NBC, June 18, 1999)"
http://emperors-clothes.com/article...son/rootsof.htm
Somehow, I have the feeling that we intervened on the wrong side here.
Regardless, even though this is Serbian territory, the only solution is to allow the people to vote. Undoubtedly, they will vote to join Albania.
We should then pull out with the advice to the Albanians that they have won in should now protect the rights of the minority Serbians, otherwise they risk war with Serbia; but this time NATO will back the Serbs.
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Apolyton Time is 00:34. |
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19-03-2004 02:15
ROFL 
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