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Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:34
Angry  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:33
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Wtf?! Tired of ads?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/408359.html

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:36 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Just another proof of how evil they really are. And the entire Europe of course condemns fighting this evil .

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:37 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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That is sick.

C0ckney is offline C0ckney
Prince
Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:40
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did anyone see the sadly ironic advert on the page about trips to israel 'free, fun and safe' :/

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:43
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i comdemn this allright

the guy who sent this kid on his 'mission' should have his ass handed to him...

but i do also condemn the retaliation actions of the idf because they cause civilian casualties

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That is sick.

It is...

Sad, very sad..

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:47
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Yet again one example, that some of the people doing these attacks care more about killing Israelis than they care about their own children, which is f'd up.

Stuie is offline Stuie

King
Have a beer!
Sep 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:48 Visit Stuie<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Apparently the "12 year-old" just got a little bit older.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ns_young_bomber

quote:
The boy, Hussam Abdo, was in his mid-teens, according to his neighbors in Nablus. They identified him as a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine militant group.


Still twisted, but also twisted news reporting.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:50
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While certainly sending children to die is to be condemned, this alleged attack cannot be classified as "terrorism."

Stuie is offline Stuie

King
Have a beer!
Sep 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:55 Visit Stuie<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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UR - who said anything about terrorism? I searched both linked news stories and the word does not appear in either, nor has anyone mentioned it in this thread prior to your post.

Just curious.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:56 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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It wasn't a terror act because he didn't blow himself up. If he did, that would be terrorism. And anyway, what is it, charity?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 21:58
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Stuie,

quote:

"These children are turned into human time-bombs for the purpose of spreading as much terror against Israelis as possible," Baker said.


From the link in the OP.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Stuie,



From the link in the OP.


So call it a war crime if the intent was to be disguised in civilian clothing to kill soldiers, as opposed to the usual boarding a commuter bus or blowing one's self up at a restaurant or shopping area.

Doesn't matter what you call it, as long as you eliminate the mother****ers responsible for causing it.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
While certainly sending children to die is to be condemned, this alleged attack cannot be classified as "terrorism."


BS

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:15 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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The PFLP is engaging in suicide bombing now?

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:16 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Doesn't matter what you call it, as long as you eliminate the mother****ers responsible for causing it.


Which hasn't been done so far because every European country feels obliged to moan and whine as soon as Israel eliminates a single terrorist leader. Of course, these double standards of Europeans are stupid. OK, France at least condemns Israel and opposes war in Iraq. But when USA got Saddam, all of Europe were cheerful. If/when they capture/kill bin Laden, all of Europe will cheer. Now, we eliminate Yassin, everyone bi***s about it.

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
Emperor
Hawthrone
Mar 1999
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:18 Visit Atahualpa's homepage!
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As long as ppl go on in an eye-for-an-eye fashion down there, we'll probably see even more stupidity comming.

Personally I only shake my head.
I mean what would a father do if his 2 kids quarrel about something. "If you cant agree then neither of you should have it". At least I would handle it that way.

East Street Trader is offline East Street Trader
Prince
London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:21
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Did you read it?

"This is another horrific example of how the Palestinians use their own children to spread terror against Israelis," David Baker, an official in the prime minister's office, said in response.

"These children are turned into human time-bombs for the purpose of spreading as much terror against Israelis as possible," Baker said.

The article couldn't attribute motive any clearer than that.

Of course I find the thing as sad as everyone else who has posted. But that is because I am the product of a humanist upbringing in a humanist society with a Judeo/Chritian (humanist) culture. Over and over we have had it explained to us that arabs, with their wholly different religious and cultural influences, simply don't share the same values.

What is said is that for a muslim to die by violence while pursuing a holy cause is the highest and best thing that such a person can hope for. So well does God think of such a person that they immediately enter heaven.

If parents believe that, and the boy believes that, I don't agree that the willingness of these youngsters to die heroically can just be shrugged of as evil.

I have a strong suspicion that the doctrine would turn out - if we knew a bit more about it - to be open to different interpretations. Religious doctrine rarely turns out to be hard and fast. So I would be very interested to hear from a Muslim scholar about it. But even if I am right that the idea is, in fact, more complex I doubt that it would make much sense to try to talk the youngster or his parents out of their belief.

Instead it would be a very good idea to find out what it is that they believe makes their targets the enemies of their God.

I have recently seen some stuff which suggests that the Koran says that Jew and arab must remain in conflict until judgment day. If so it is difficult to see how the flow of teen-aged would-be martyrs can be interupted.

Although the wit of man is considerable. Equally as intractible problems have sometimes been worked around.

And in case anyone might want to contend that Christianity has never gone in for anything as daft, well remember the Children's Crusade?

Shogun Gunner is offline Shogun Gunner

Emperor
Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:23 Visit Shogun Gunner<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
While certainly sending children to die is to be condemned, this alleged attack cannot be classified as "terrorism."


You have to be kidding.

Then nothing can be called "terrorism". Those 9-11 hiijackers were freedom fighters. And those Spanish civilians riding the trains were lawful combatants.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:25
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quote:

And in case anyone might want to contend that Christianity has never gone in for anything as daft, well remember the Children's Crusade?


Practice is different from doctrine.

What about the passage saying that I am the Good shepherd, who lays my life down for the sheep? Pastors are supposed to take care of the children the congregation, not make bombs of them.

To assert that Christianity affirms such actions is to ignore entirely their doctrines on the sanctity of the human person.

debeest is offline debeest
Prince

May 2000
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:27
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Well said, EST.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:33
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quote:
You have to be kidding.

Then nothing can be called "terrorism". Those 9-11 hiijackers were freedom fighters. And those Spanish civilians riding the trains were lawful combatants.


I believe he was refering to the fact that the child was being sent to kill soliders, not civilians.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:41 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
I believe he was refering to the fact that the child was being sent to kill soliders, not civilians.


What then, bringing the explosives to help some construction workers blow up an old ruined house?

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The PFLP is engaging in suicide bombing now?




They've used suicide bombings in the past.

East Street Trader is offline East Street Trader
Prince
London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 22:57
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I suspect that those who promoted the Children's Crusade could quote a whole bunch of Christian doctrine Ben.

I rather imagine that their doing so explains why all the kids set out and why their parents went along with it.

Much as in this case.

From some of your posts it is my impression you have a good grasp of core Christian values. What practice could such a Christian recommend to the principals in relation to what has been going on in the middle east?

our_man is offline our_man
Prince
Glasgow, Scotland
Oct 2000
time: 05:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 23:01
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It's horrible how dehumanised people can become during war.

The exploitation of children is nothing new however. The Palestinians still have a long way to go before they reach the depravity of the Africans when it comes to using child soldiers.

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 23:05 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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quote:
And the entire Europe of course condemns fighting this evil


and you'd be all to happy to fight any Palestinian boy that comes to close to your troops. Regardless of whether they are carrying bombs, or stones.

Stuie is offline Stuie

King
Have a beer!
Sep 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 23:05 Visit Stuie<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Stuie,

From the link in the OP.


Mea culpa.

Stupid IE search functionality.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 23:06
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quote:

I suspect that those who promoted the Children's Crusade could quote a whole bunch of Christian doctrine


I would sincerely be interested in how they justified their actions, which would make a much more substantive critique of Christianity.

quote:

What practice could such a Christian recommend to the principals in relation to what has been going on in the middle east?


It's a tough question.

I would say that it starts with the one Jewish family who takes the trouble to invite a Palestinian family for dinner. It is only with the interaction of both people, will they learn to love each other more than they hate each other.

I know both sides say they have suffered, but the first step has to be taken by someone, who is willing to trust where no such trust has been earned.

Shogun Gunner is offline Shogun Gunner

Emperor
Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2004 23:08 Visit Shogun Gunner<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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So, if using "children bombs" against soldiers during peacetime isn't terrorism....it must be because a war has been declared against Israel and the Palestine people are fighting with whatever they can...

So when Israel retaliates in a military fashion, why is that denounced? It's war after all and war is a terrible thing. Both sides have to want to stop before the war can stop. Why would this be solely Israel's fault?

 
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