25-03-2004 15:16									#1
	Oh No! Not another Baldur's Gate thread! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Lots of people have put either one or both of the Baldur's Gate games on their lists of top 10 games, but this thread still doesn't attract that many people.
Never mind, welcome to another edition of Baldur's Gate, a subdivision of the Ask Jamski corporation.

If anyone wants to add a suggestion to the list of ways in which Jamski can play his next game of BG2, then feel free to do so.

How about: a ninja! Duelled ranger/cleric, can't wear armour and has to fight bare-handed. (I only chose ranger because of the hide in shadows ability)
I'm not sure of whether/which NPCs you can use, but it's a start. Drogue, I'm sure you can complicate things further.

Or a no-magic-items game.

Back to BG1 then.
I finished the mines of Nashkel last night, killing the cleric there and taking his symbol back to Nashkel for my reward. I also discovered a really nice trick. This bloke turned up in Nashkel with an axe, and since it was an obvious assassination attempt, I cast Silence with Branwen and then just killed him before he could talk to me. With no reputation loss, despite cutting down a man in broad daylight, in full view of the Amn guards! I'm very chuffed with my new sneakiness, and am now off to pick up the braces (sic) of archery, hopefully using the same method. Is there anything worthwhile on the other side of the mines, or should I head back towards Beregost to buy some more tasty weapons and spells? I've now got a reputation of 18, so do you reckon I'd make a saving by donating money to the temple so I can get 20, and get the 50% hero bonus in shops earlier than if I'd been doing quests and other good deeds? (Can you tell I've been reading the manual, instead of just asking Jamski for advice?)

	25-03-2004 16:15									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Question for the BG fans, since it is probably my next RPG. How necessary is it for me to play the original game and expansion to enjoy the sequel? In a way I'd rather just play the newer game, but I want to know what everyone thinks.

	25-03-2004 16:25									#3
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I don't know - I've only got the first one, and am currently looking to buy the second. If you just want videogaming fun, then I'm sure that you could start with the second game, but the first would perhaps offer a gentler introduction. If, however, you're a Jamski-esque obsessive-compulsive completist (), then you can take the character you built up in BG1 to use in BG2.
They won't have all of the cool stuff you have picked up for them, but actions in the first game can influence how other characters treat you in the second game, which is great. You also get to play the trousers game.
But BG2 has more interesting mods built for it, particularly if you're an old romantic.

	25-03-2004 16:30									#4
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Hmm, if you can take a kickass character into the second game surely that's a huge advantage? Or is the starting character also kickass?

Anyone here who has played BG2 by itself like to comment on whether they felt they should have played the first game?

	25-03-2004 16:56									#5
	Got spare money?

Why do you only want to play the second game? If it's because of the graphics/interface improvements, there's a utility called BG1tutu that ports all the BG1 code (story, locations, etc.) into the BG2 engine. Thus, you can play the first one with all the upgrades.

Here's a link: http://japh.fwstudios.net/bg1tutu/

Also, regarding the "kickass" character, BG2 scales encounters based on the level of the party. So if you bring in a kickass character, the encounters will be more difficult than if you bring a not-so-kickass character.

	25-03-2004 16:59									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Interesting. So many options............

Well I am still only say 15% through KOTOR, so I have plenty of time to decide based on later posts in this thread.

	25-03-2004 17:31									#7
	Put an end to popups!

I assure you that there will be many, even before Jamski's contribution. You have my word of honour on that!

	25-03-2004 17:39									#8
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Really there's two ways of going about it, Doc.

Either play BG1 first, then the story isn't spoiled by playing it second or
play BG2 first, so you're not put off the system by the BG1 engine, and its 600*420 resolution.

Personally, I think you're always a man who cares more about the gameplay than how it looks, so I really reccommend to bash through BG1 first, and then import your character into BG2.

Best of all, would be to use a programme called "BG1 Tutu" which converts the BG1 game into the BG2 engine. Of course you still need to have both games for this to work, and it still has some problems that need fixing.

As for an imported character being more powerful... a new character in BG2 starts at about the same level as one ending BG1, and all characters start BG2 with no equipment... its really a matter of story rather than power. Ok, if your PC used all the "Tomes" in BG1 they could have got better stats, but like I always say : you really don't need godlike stats to complete these games. You just need cheese

As regards Duck's "no magic items" idea... are you NUTS? That would be so hard! Or would I be allowed to use magic weapons+armour but no other items. If its really "no magic items at all" then I have to play with loads of spell casters... could be a tricky "finness" kind of game...

-Jam

	25-03-2004 17:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Doc Question for the BG fans, since it is probably my next RPG. How necessary is it for me to play the original game and expansion to enjoy the sequel? In a way I'd rather just play the newer game, but I want to know what everyone thinks.

It's not necessary. Plot wise it might help, it explains why you start trapped in that dungeon, and about your heritage, but it's not necessary at all. It's a different quest, with different people involved. Gameplay wise it makes no difference. You can port a character from BGI to BGII, but I usually start with a new BGII character, since there's more to choose from there. The engine is slightly improved, there's more choice, it looks better... I'd say start with BGII. BGI is a great game too, and does have a fantastic plot, but you don't need it to play BGII.

	25-03-2004 17:41									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes Drogue, but BG1 isn't so good if you played BG2 first. The sense of wonder in starting a new game of BG1 for the first time having a level 1 character in Candlekeep and exploring the world...

It can't be beaten, and there's no way to get it back.

Play BG1 first, you won't regret it, and then you'll enjoy BG2 more.

-Jam

	25-03-2004 17:46									#11
	Tired of ads?

Can I have some more BG1 assistance please? (see first post)

I imagine that the trouble with having a BG1 character in BG2 is that you don't get the advantages of the various new character styles: the kits or the new classes. Or do you? If I took my ranger through then could I claim that she's been an archer or a stalker all the way through? By the way, she's just got the Cure light wounds ability, but I imagine it's once per day so I'll probably stick with my druid and cleric for the time being. I'd like another kick-ass fighter though, but since I got Jaheira's mate killed I'm a bit stuck for a good one.

	25-03-2004 17:57									#12
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Ah, I see.

You can't buy your Reputation higher than 18. Go and do something good

As for the Surface of Naskell Mines map, check out the artist in the SW corner, then talk to the fat man in the middle of the street in Naskell afterwards... you'll see.

I like your sneakyness

On the other side of the mines is a map with some hard fights and some great loot. Its worth a look - but probably not untill level 3+

-Jam

	25-03-2004 18:04									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oh, I did the Prism quest before I even went into the mines.
I've still got a bandit scalp that I seem to have been carrying around for ages, but the fat bloke in Nashkel won't give me any money for it? Shall I keep hold of it and keep asking people I meet about it? Where are these fancy wolves with the valuable fur to be found then?

	25-03-2004 18:09									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hang onto the bandit scalp, you can use it as soon as you return to Beregost after clearing the mines out. The wolves are HIDING

-Jam

	25-03-2004 18:12									#15
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Well I'll give them a good hiding, and take their hide from them, but I still want to know where to find them. I need all the money! So, er, I can go and do some really nice, lawful good kinda things. You know, er, donate to orphanages and stuff.

	25-03-2004 18:29									#16
	Got spare money?

Thanks Jamski and Drogue for posting your thoughts; I think I see Jamski's side more, since I probably wont play BG1 after BG2, and the graphics problem doesn't bother me too much.

However I have tonnes of games to play at the moment, so I still need to decide whether to just leave BG1. If I play it it could be months before I start BG2.

	25-03-2004 18:49									#17
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Starting in BG2 is not really the same. You can cast some nice spells immediately when you quit Irenicus' dungeon, like fireball etc.. It's no fun if you have not been a worthless piece of shite first that gets whacked by gibberlings

	25-03-2004 18:57									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I thought we'd agreed to keep that quiet!

Oh no, I was killed by a single wolf in my first time outside Candlekeep. Now I can kill them just by looking at them. (slight exaggeration )

	25-03-2004 19:01									#19
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Stop it......you're making me want to play KOTOR. Mustn't give in to the dark side..............

Working from home in the Easter Holidays is hard.

	25-03-2004 19:36									#20
	Remove this text

Easter Holidays already Nice for some.

quote: It's no fun if you have not been a worthless piece of shite first that gets whacked by gibberlings

Not just gibberlings, but a single unwell gibberling...

-Jam

	25-03-2004 19:52									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Why do you only want to play the second game? If it's because of the graphics/interface improvements, there's a utility called BG1tutu that ports all the BG1 code (story, locations, etc.) into the BG2 engine. Thus, you can play the first one with all the upgrades.

Wow.

Looks like I might be playing BG1 again...

	25-03-2004 19:57									#22
	Tired of ads?

Jamski, what did you think of my ninja idea? Basically, you'd be playing as a monk, but without the unarmed combat benefits of that class.
I can't remember whether you can put weapon proficiencies onto unarmed in BG1. I doubt it though.

	25-03-2004 20:42									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Really there's two ways of going about it, Doc. Either play BG1 first, then the story isn't spoiled by playing it second or play BG2 first, so you're not put off the system by the BG1 engine, and its 600*420 resolution. Personally, I think you're always a man who cares more about the gameplay than how it looks, so I really reccommend to bash through BG1 first, and then import your character into BG2.

I would also add, as someone who hasnt been spoiled by 21st century games, that I find the BG1 graphics quite attractive.

	25-03-2004 20:44									#24
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Doc Stop it......you're making me want to play KOTOR. Mustn't give in to the dark side.............. Working from home in the Easter Holidays is hard.

working from home has always been difficult, and games make it harder. I avoid it if at all possible.

	25-03-2004 20:49									#25
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Ok, after I finish this file, I'm going to get Tutu and play the entire sequence, BGI through ToB. However I need an idea for a character. I want to roleplay, and so the character must be either Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral, since those are the ones I feel at home with (probably Neautral Good being the closest to myself). I could do a sorceror, but I always play as a mage, and fancy something a little different. A cleric maybe? Not a thief (Imoen will be in the party) or a mage.

Ideas:
Cleric (Lathander probably)
Fighter (kit?)
Ranger (kit?)
Monk (or is this a silly idea)
Cavaleir Paladin

I'm sorely tempted to do a fighter or a ranger that duals to a Cleric near the begining of BGII. As for kits, not a Kensai (clerics have good armour), not an Archer (clerics can't use bows) but pretty much anything else. Will end up being armed with Chrom Fayer, either dual wielded if a ranger, or with a shield if a fighter. Will get Mace of Disruption too, which dualed with Chrom Fayer would be quite an attack. Actually, I think I'll do this, it looks like a good PC.

So, which is better, Ranger or Fighter? The 5 points in weapon proficiency would be nice in BGI, but Rangers get 2 extra points in dual wielding (if they still do in Tutu). He will use mace, sling and warhammer. And what kit to use? A Berzerker might be a little out of character, I don't like Wizard Slayers and Kensai is out; Archer won't work without bows, Beastmaster won't without metal weapons (no hammer or mace), and Stalker doesn't take advantage of the fact that Clerics can use decent armour, but could still work. Also, get's me mage spells. So, plain Fighter, Stalker or plain Ranger? Will be Neutral Good, unless someone can think of a reason not to.

Alternatively, I could do a Druid, dualed to a Fighter or Ranger in BGII. However might be a little weird going that way.

	25-03-2004 20:56									#26
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark working from home has always been difficult, and games make it harder. I avoid it if at all possible.

But the flesh is weak, and the games are calling me. "No one else will be here for 2 hours..........you've done enough work for today.........you *deserve* some gaming time.........play me........play me now!"

ARRGH!

I give in.

	25-03-2004 20:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Doc But the flesh is weak, and the games are calling me. "No one else will be here for 2 hours..........you've done enough work for today.........you *deserve* some gaming time.........play me........play me now!" ARRGH! I give in.

No, I meant I avoid working from home.

	25-03-2004 20:59									#28
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No offense, drouge, but you seem like a pretty boring roleplayer. Explore your evil, twisted, side.

	25-03-2004 20:59									#29
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Drogue - play as a bard.
In fact, solo it, Jamski style, as a bard.

	25-03-2004 21:04									#30
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark No, I meant I avoid working from home.

Yeah I agree it's not a good idea.......but right now it's a break between semesters, so there is no one around to dodge as much work as possible listen attentively to my pearls of wisdom.