28-03-2004 21:39									#91
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Kassi: My main character will be an undead killer, so will have Mace of Disruption. It's just a pity you can't do the Sir Sarles quest properly and get the MoD+2.

As for Chrom Fayer, it's useful in off hand just for the strength bonus, but wouldn't Valygar be better with Celestial Fury in his main hand. That would be deadly. As for Paladin, I'd never dual wield one, it takes at least 2 points to be decent, and The Holy Avenger is usually much better, IMHO.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Drogue, when are you planning on dualing to Cleric, out of interest?

Probably near the start of BGII. Depends when I get the weapon profs that I want. Actually, I only need 2 in Mace and Warhammer and 3 in dual wield, since when he turns to a Cleric I can give him the rest of the Sling prof.

When's a good idea you think? For THAC0 I'd like to get that a bit better, since I want to make the most of dual wield, but not sure how important that is. I want him to be a frontline fighter, so HP, THAC0 and weapon prof is important. However I want to end BGI with either a Ranger or a fully dualled Ranger/Cleric. Thus I'll either dual about chapter 4 or the begining if BGII, probably.

	28-03-2004 21:50									#92
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For a Ranger--->Cleric dual (I think its better to use a Ranger/Cleric multi) you must ask yourself "Why do I want the Ranger levels?"

For allowing the Cleric to cast Druid spells, you only need one level of Ranger.

For more attacks per round you need 7 levels.

For maximum HP the dual with 9 levels.

For maximum attacks per round, dual after level 13.

I always feel there's a certain trade-off to be made. The only advantages over a Fighter-->Cleric are the addition of Druid spells to the Cleric list, and of these only Iron Skins and Nature's Beauty are worth shouting about - but they are great spells, and the free two **s in dual wielding. The cost is the much higher EXP needed to be a ranger, and the inability to get grand mastery.

Since a melee cleric's main problem is that he never gets more than one attack, I reccommend you dual at level 13 - about halfway through chapter 2 in SoA.

-Jam

	28-03-2004 21:56									#93
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I chose a Ranger over a fighter because the extra 2* in DW, the Druid spells, the RP of the Vampire racial enemy, and the stealth, are more important to me than grand mastery (which isn't that much usein BGII) and the extra XP needed, IMHO.

I'm not that bothered about HP (it never seems to be lacking, esp. with an 18 CON). What's the usual attacks?

Base is 1,
+1 for dual wield,
+1/2 for 2+* weapon prof,
+1/2 level 7 Ranger,
+1/2 level 13 Ranger?

Don't fighters normally have 4 towards the end of SoA when dual wielding? Which one is wrong?

	28-03-2004 22:02									#94
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I think the 2+* in Dual Wielding is like Gene Splicing - it lifts the restrictions... and I seem to get 9/2 attacks when at a high enough level dual wielding with a PROPER offhand weapon (Belm or Kundane) so that would be 7/2 attacks with a crappy offhand weapon.

So none of the above is "wrong" Drogue

-Jam

	28-03-2004 22:15									#95
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Hmmmm... I'll have to see on my file, but I thought Korgan get's 4 attacks. He is dual wielding Stonefire and Frostreaver. My main character get's 7/2 and he's only a level 9 Kensai.

Also, isn't Kundane just a 0 speed factor sword. I didn't think it gave an extra attack

Either way, if it's only +1/2 to go from level 7 to level 13, I think I'll leave it. I'll want my Cleric spells soon, and it's a lot less time to go with an inactive class. Level 13 is 1,500,000 XP, and level 7 is just 75,000. I don't think +1 THAC0 is enough reason to go to 150,000 XP for level 8, but it may be. I don't think it's worth going to level 13 just for another half an attack. Besides, this way he ends up with an integer as a number of attacks. He's not, IMHO, about a flurry of attacks, but about crushing blows and buffing spells, RP-wise. I like the idea of a level 7 dual

	28-03-2004 23:04									#96
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quote: As for Chrom Fayer, it's useful in off hand just for the strength bonus, but wouldn't Valygar be better with Celestial Fury in his main hand. That would be deadly.

I haven't used Celestial Fury for much else than backstabbing, but it _is_ only a +3 weapon. I might need, say, a +5, so I just give him the upgraded Foebane. Different story in BG2 though, but there I just had him use Sentinel +4 in the off hand to avoid getting hit to pieces. (In retrospect, not so good an idea. But somehow I managed to finish the game. )

quote: As for Paladin, I'd never dual wield one, it takes at least 2 points to be decent, and The Holy Avenger is usually much better, IMHO.

It depends on the enemy I'm facing. 99% of the time I am using the Holy Avenger, I didn't kill Firkraag at level 12 by pure chance of luck (he cast Zone of Sweet Air while I whacked and electrocuted him to pieces ) just to let it gather dust in my inventory.

	29-03-2004 03:13									#97
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Kassi: Ahh, you're doing ToB. I never need much more than a +3 weapons, especially one that stuns its opponent, but I usually only play SoA. What's the Sentinel? A ToB item?

As for killing Firkraag, I do it whether or not I need the Holy Avenger. Nice fight

	29-03-2004 03:30									#98
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quote: What's the Sentinel? A ToB item?

Nope, a +4 shield you can buy in the Underdark. Not adamantine, mind you.

quote: As for killing Firkraag, I do it whether or not I need the Holy Avenger. Nice fight

Well I don't know, it was over pretty quickly.

	29-03-2004 04:12									#99
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How good a shield is it? I have Fortress Shield for Jaheira, which I was going to keep, but if it's better... She has Balduran's too, for when I find a beholder I don't like. However it's being buggy, and has stopped reflecting them, just stopping them. I don't mind, she still doesn't get hurt, but it means they take longer.

	29-03-2004 04:28									#100
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I don't know about Balduran's, I never acquired the extra shopkeepers. It's a medium shield so it doesn't give any AC bonus for missilie weapons, but it does give you a 5 point boost to armour class. That's it, no other special abilities.

I use the cloak of mirroring against beholders myself. Nothing like walking into the Beholder Lair, running into a horde of the critters and watching them die one by one.

	29-03-2004 04:31									#101
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quote: Also, isn't Kundane just a 0 speed factor sword. I didn't think it gave an extra attack

Its there for certain, Drogue. It says NOTHING in the description about it, but it functions exactly like Belm.

And I thought of another advantage to Dualing at level 13 - a heap more weapon profs are always nice

-Jam

	29-03-2004 04:40									#102
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Kassi: That's the same effect as Balduran's shield, reflects beholder rays back at them. Made Unseeing Eye quest easy

Jamski: Ahhh, might have to use it then, thanks However I don't need the weapon prof, and half an attack isn't worth that IMHO. Besides, I want a decent Cleric with him. So far he's doing well. Rolled the best for his HP when he went to level 2, so now has 28 HP Very flukey

	29-03-2004 04:43									#103
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Drogue, if you set the difficulty down to the lowest two settings, you get always max HP on levlling up... then you can put it back on Insane afterwards

-Jam

	29-03-2004 04:52									#104
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I could, but I don't like doing that. I'd rather just see what comes up

	29-03-2004 14:32									#105
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Drogue, did you remember to pick up the gold trousers?
I didn't know that the HP levels on levelling up were random. So if I save before levelling up and then have multiple goes, I could get better HP eh?

I've just bought BGII and ToB on eDonkey for £11 or so. It's just over £14 with postage, which is a shame because I don't want it any more. I spotted the roleplaying pack (BGII, Icewind dale and Invictus (?)) in HMV for only £20, and wish I'd bought that, but I'd then have to get ToB as well, so I'm going to pay up. It'd be a bit mean not to. Mind you, when the good duchess finds out then I'll be in doo doo. But until then....
Didn't play BGI at all this weekend - went to the pub and to the football (for free! ), so have nothing game-related to ask. Yet....

	29-03-2004 14:40									#106
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quote: I've just bought BGII and ToB on eDonkey for £11 or so.

I've "bought" a lot of games off the eDonkey network too but I've never bothered to come up with a "price" for them.

	29-03-2004 14:53									#107
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Me either. Is my version of eDonkey broken?

	29-03-2004 15:31									#108
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Sorry, I forgot that there is a real programme called eDonkey. My mates and I have referred to eBray as that since it started and someone we know bought something crappy for a sizeable sum.

(hoping that there isn't a programme called eBray as well, to cause even more confusion)

	29-03-2004 15:36									#109
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You mean you missed playing BG in order to watch Bolton??? Odd boy.

-Jam

	29-03-2004 15:53									#110
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Yeah - but I wasn't there to watch Bolton was I!

Chance meeting in the pub: free match ticket and travel. All the bloke wanted was a pint afterwards.

	29-03-2004 15:54									#111
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I checked to see if the eDonkey store Duke likes so much had BG and BG2. Unfortunately, though they have both, there is a problem since most of the cds for BG1 and cd2 for BG2 are not in stock at the moment.

I might try eBray.

	29-03-2004 16:02									#112
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Amazon.de is selling BG2 (English version) for 99.00 Euros second hand!!!

-Jam

	29-03-2004 16:09									#113
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Well they can keep that copy. Our Amazon has it at a more reasonable price, but I think I'll go the eBay route if eDonkey doesn't update its stock soon.

	29-03-2004 16:16									#114
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There's a used copy of BG2 on amazon UK for £13, second hand, but at least you get ToB, which I have checked and won't be getting. Damn!

	29-03-2004 16:22									#115
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You can get ToB quite easily from the store you mentioned.

	29-03-2004 16:32									#116
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I know, but I wanted both in one box like I got for BGI. Still, I'm getting the 4 CD version in a proper box, and hopefully with a proper manual. Call me a traditionalist, but I bloody hate tradition!!!!! I don't like the DVD-style boxes for games either. I want a manual you can read in bed.

	29-03-2004 16:47									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia I don't know about Balduran's, I never acquired the extra shopkeepers. It's a medium shield so it doesn't give any AC bonus for missilie weapons, but it does give you a 5 point boost to armour class. That's it, no other special abilities.

No, it just doesn't have a +1 bonus against missile weapons (lunlike the large shields).

	29-03-2004 17:09									#118
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quote: Still, I'm getting the 4 CD version in a proper box, and hopefully with a proper manual.

If you're getting the box with both SoA and ToB then you get all five CDs, two manuals, a reference chart and a poster/map. And you need the manuals for all the spell descriptions... there are lots

-Jam

	29-03-2004 17:33									#119
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But nice people always scan manuals for you anyway.

	29-03-2004 17:38									#120
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I'm not after the manual because I have a copy of less-than-absolute-legality!
I've already got the BGII manual (and the Icewind Dale manual), because I got BGI in the DVD case and it has the manuals all on .pdf files. But that's rubbish to read, and I'm not going to print them out. Work might notice, which would be far from ideal, and my girlfriend would object to my using all her ink cartridge for the fancy artwork graphics.