26-03-2004 22:51									#1
	Does poverty cause crime? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I don't know why this has been used as an explanation for the high crime rates of ethnics in the population. Sure there may be more of them poorer..

But couldn't poverty and crime both be caused by an underlying anti-social trait?

	26-03-2004 22:53									#2
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No. Poverty does not cause crime.

Individual people cause crime.

	26-03-2004 22:55									#3
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Poverty however seems to have a certain influence......

	26-03-2004 22:55									#4
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If so, the wealthy would never steal. Some of the worse offenses are so-called "white collar" crimes.

	26-03-2004 22:57									#5
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Everybody commits crime, as far as I can see.

There is, however, an underlying distrust of people living in poor areas and the crimes seen there, rather than the crimes of the affluent.

	26-03-2004 22:58									#6
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"Poverty however seems to have a certain influence......"

I wonder if there have been studies looking at individuals who experience income fluctuations, and whether during a severe downturn in income, they turned to mugging and stuff. I would doubt it.

Therefore I would think poverty and crime and related but caused by a general negative underlying persona. Only I suppose some people might take that as racist due to the disproportionately high number of ethnics committing crimes.

	26-03-2004 23:00									#7
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You're right that it's not the only cause but it is a significant contributing factor, particularly in petty crime.

Racially motivated crime increases in proportion to poverty too, but I won't goad PA on that just yet .

The difference between working class and middle class youth subcultures is significant, since the former tend to express themselves through deliquency whereas the latter tends to be more cerebral. Compare townies/lager and goths, or in the past groups like the mods/rockers as opposed to the hippies. Nowadays I think that line is more blurred as education is better, and as the UK is a service-driven economy, it is easier for working class kids to get better jobs, so embourgouisement helps to prevent deliquency. Of course the effect there is limited.

It may just be a British thing, the history of class conflict making people more inclined to dislike the class above them, or a society based upon it. I can't comment on that though, my sociology course only focuses on the post-modern era.

	26-03-2004 23:01									#8
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poverty is relative as "wealth" is a relative term.

Define crime. Is it a crime to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?

	26-03-2004 23:01									#9
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quote: I wonder if there have been studies looking at individuals who experience income fluctuations, and whether during a severe downturn in income, they turned to mugging and stuff. I would doubt it.

If you are socialised in poverty then you would be more prone, I suspect it is something you are taught as children per se.

quote: Therefore I would think poverty and crime and related but caused by a general negative underlying persona. Only I suppose some people might take that as racist due to the disproportionately high number of ethnics committing crimes.

No, I think a better explanation is the disproportionate number of immigrant communities living in poverty.

	26-03-2004 23:02									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Only I suppose some people might take that as racist due to the disproportionately high number of ethnics committing crimes.

Prove it.

	26-03-2004 23:04									#11
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Poverty increases the reasons for violent crime, which is what people really mean when they ask about the crime rate.

The poor have more reasons to commit burglary and robberies (when is the last time a rich man robbed you in the street?)-and of course, their poor money management after the crime means even after they steal they remain poor.

The poor are also more liekly to be unemplyed, giving time for crime, and again, financial reason.

Now, outside of robbery and burglery, I don;t think poverty has much to do with it, when it comes to crimes like Murder, rape.

	26-03-2004 23:05									#12
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Poverty is one of the causes of crime.

If poverty didn't cause crime, the poorest nations of the world would be Utopias.

Look at Haiti... the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.

Poverty is not the sole cause of crime, but it's a major factor.

And the whole "white collar" thing is bullshit. I've heard that lame argument before. How many CEO's are robbing liquor stores?

All you need to do is look at demographic charts and crime charts. Higher crime is always in poorer areas.

To say poverty has nothing to do with crime is completely retarded... and "criminally" stupid.

	26-03-2004 23:05									#13
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It is an obvious fact in Britain and US Laz. Prove me wrong.

"If you are socialised in poverty then you would be more prone"

Good comment..

"Racially motivated crime increases in proportion to poverty too, but I won't goad PA on that just yet "

Prove it. ()

	26-03-2004 23:05									#14
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There's a study in a recent issue of Scientific American which shows that crime is only partially linked to poverty. The biggest factor in the rise and fall of crime in the 80s and 90s was the emergence and then lessening demand for crack cocaine. Almost every other fact, death penalty, tougher sentencing, more cops, demographics, economics, etc. had minor negligable effects on overall crime rates.

	26-03-2004 23:05									#15
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"ethnics"?

	26-03-2004 23:06									#16
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quote: To say poverty has nothing to do with crime is completely retarded... and "criminally" stupid.

I think the argument is whether poverty causes crime, not over the simple and obvious fact that the two are related.

	26-03-2004 23:06									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer "ethnics"?

You know, Brits and other types of strange folk. There are whole countries full of ethnics over there.

	26-03-2004 23:08									#18
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People with cars are more likely to speed. Obviously middle class life styles cause crime.

	26-03-2004 23:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue It is an obvious fact in Britain and US Laz. Prove me wrong.

No it isn't.

Try conducting a straw poll here of everyone here who has broken the law.

	26-03-2004 23:10									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sava And the whole "white collar" thing is bullshit. I've heard that lame argument before. How many CEO's are robbing liquor stores? All you need to do is look at demographic charts and crime charts. Higher crime is always in poorer areas.

I disagree.

You think some unemployed guy ripping off a liquor store for a $20 bottle of booze is on the same scale to the corruption that occurs in big business?

The ramifications of contracts not honored, broken promises, theft from pension funds, tax evasion, "good ole boy" network of deal making doesn't have vast ramifications to many people?

So I return to my question. What is crime? If you want to define it as the local liquour store being knocked over once in awhile, then you are right. If you want to define crime by the negative impact to quality of life, then you are wrong.

	26-03-2004 23:11									#21
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Most people here haven't. I haven't.

	26-03-2004 23:11									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Most people here haven't. I haven't.

Underage drinking is a crime.

	26-03-2004 23:12									#23
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When was the last time you practised your archery?

	26-03-2004 23:14									#24
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"Underage drinking is a crime."

I have never committed a crime.

	26-03-2004 23:18									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I think the argument is whether poverty causes crime, not over the simple and obvious fact that the two are related.

Poverty is A cause of crime... not the sole cause. That's my position.

Shogun: It's a simple question of demographics. Even though white collar crime costs us much more than small crime, it is not as prevelant. Furthermore, look at rich suburbs. They have less crime... and often times, less police presence.

Crime is A cause... not the sole cause of crime. To say poverty has no bearing on crime is stupid.

	26-03-2004 23:21									#26
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quote: There's a study in a recent issue of Scientific American which shows that crime is only partially linked to poverty. The biggest factor in the rise and fall of crime in the 80s and 90s was the emergence and then lessening demand for crack cocaine.

That's very interesting. I've never heard of a crack cocaine hypothesis for the crime rate.

	26-03-2004 23:27									#27
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Yes but Sava, is it really a causing factor, or just one related to it?

	26-03-2004 23:31									#28
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Sava, I will agree that poverty (a relative wealth imbalance assessment made by the criminal) is a factor because humans experience jealousy.

So poverty will contribute to two types of crime
1. Crimes of jealousy (poor person stealing due to coveting/political reasons/etc)
2. Crimes of true need (starving family)

However, crime occurs for a lot of reasons. Although difficult to quantify, I suspect "crimes of jealousy" is not the largest driver of the crime rate -- both in frequency and true societal cost.

	26-03-2004 23:41									#29
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What about crimes other than murder? Murder is much less likely to happen in an affluent suburb than in an inner-city ghetto. Why is violent crime more prevalent in poorer areas? Very few rich people go around commiting murder and rape.

	26-03-2004 23:42									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Prove it.

How's this?

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/...filing_myth.htm