29-03-2004 23:10									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Really? Well you remind me of a racist. Deal with it.

I'd still like to know why you think your position is morally superior when you have no evidence to back it up, just as I (in your opinion) have no evidence to back up mine.

	30-03-2004 00:55									#92
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I fail to see why I require corroborative evidence to treat people as anything other than individuals- to be praised or damned according to their own individual actions.

	30-03-2004 01:10									#93
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Why is crime ussually committed? Desperation? Ignorance? Stupidity?

I'd say desperation and ignorance. When a rich person is faced with a problem they can ussually just throw money at it to make it go away. However, poor people do not have this option. When something is wrong in their life and they need money or a place to hide a body they will most likely get desperate and steal and pick a bad place to hide the body.

	30-03-2004 01:18									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp I fail to see why I require corroborative evidence to treat people as anything other than individuals- to be praised or damned according to their own individual actions.

That's not the issue. I also treat people as individuals. We are talking about groups, not individuals. You assert that the difference in crime rates between these groups is almost nothing, and despite having no evidence for this you treat those with a different opinion as moral inferiors. Why?

	30-03-2004 01:23									#95
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Balls, again. Desperately looking for pseudo-science to provide a threadbare justification for prejudice is not scientific rationalism. Or treating people as individuals.

A group is, after all, just individuals plurally.

	30-03-2004 01:33									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Why is crime ussually committed? Desperation? Ignorance? Stupidity? I'd say desperation and ignorance. When a rich person is faced with a problem they can ussually just throw money at it to make it go away. However, poor people do not have this option. When something is wrong in their life and they need money or a place to hide a body they will most likely get desperate and steal and pick a bad place to hide the body.

Yup, the vast majority of crime is out of desperation... NOT.

For one thing, rich people commit PLENTY of crimes.

For another, crime happens for one, fundamental reason: people think the reward is worth the chance of getting caught, and they don't feel a moral compulsion not to commit the crime.

	30-03-2004 01:36									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Balls, again. Desperately looking for pseudo-science to provide a threadbare justification for prejudice is not scientific rationalism. Or treating people as individuals. A group is, after all, just individuals plurally.

You're being an idiot.

1. Many people discriminate based on it. Thus, people of a different race will be subjected to different influences based on their race.

2. Those influences change who they are.

No one is claiming that certain races are inherently inferior, they're claiming that certain races, due to culture, average socioeconomic status, etc. perform various crimes in different proportions.

	30-03-2004 01:36									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Balls, again. Desperately looking for pseudo-science to provide a threadbare justification for prejudice is not scientific rationalism. Or treating people as individuals. A group is, after all, just individuals plurally.

You're ducking and weaving like a champion Laz. Whatever I may think about groups does not stop me from treating others as individuals. Whatever my reason for thinking these groups are different with regard to crime, at the worst I have no less justification than you for my opinion. Yet you treat me as a moral inferior. Why?

	30-03-2004 01:38									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp I fail to see why I require corroborative evidence to treat people as anything other than individuals- to be praised or damned according to their own individual actions.

stupid...

Because there are about 300 million individuals in the US, and about eight or nine orders of magnitude fewer groups?

	30-03-2004 01:41									#100
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I think that the poor (particularly where there are large wealth disparities and population densities, i.e. urban areas) are more likely to committ crime, though the statistics are misrepresentative simply because there are far, far more police in poor areas, and its harder to police and prosecute white collar crime.

	30-03-2004 01:42									#101
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The statistics are skewed, but they are probably right in general - the reason they have more police in poor areas is generally because of a higher crime rate.

	30-03-2004 01:46									#102
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In Victorian England, the common belief was that by definition, the poverty-ridden class were criminal, and the misdeeds perpetrated by them were crimes.

The wealthy were only breaking the law.
Two wholly separate issues.

Then there's Australia. England sent their lawless citizen's on a "transportation" to Australia.

That's why I laugh at The Horse.
America's historical background is based on religion.
Australian's all know full well that their heredity is steeped in deceit and dishonor.

	30-03-2004 01:47									#103
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quote: The statistics are skewed, but they are probably right in general - the reason they have more police in poor areas is generally because of a higher crime rate.

Not really. If police were in proportion to crime, there would be far more drug convictions in suburban areas, for instance.

quote: No one is claiming that certain races are inherently inferior, they're claiming that certain races, due to culture, average socioeconomic status, etc. perform various crimes in different proportions.

Cali is (though he'd rationalize it by saying that propensity to committ crime isn't a mark of inferiority, black people are good at sports and music), unless he has changed his mind recently.

	30-03-2004 01:49									#104
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IIRC, he didn't make a statement about each individual, he made a TRUE statistical statement about a group. I see nothing saying that they are inherently inferior in that.

(yes, I am too lazy to reread the previous page )

	30-03-2004 01:52									#105
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It's a bad idea to call people stupid if you don't know what you're talking about.

	30-03-2004 01:53									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Cali is

Not as a whole, only in certain aspects. But that applies to all races.

	30-03-2004 01:55									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich IIRC, he didn't make a statement about each individual, he made a TRUE statistical statement about a group. I see nothing saying that they are inherently inferior in that.

Ramo is referring to what I have said in previous threads, but yes, I still see every person as an individual.

	30-03-2004 01:55									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich You're being an idiot.

You're young, so I'll let you off with a word of advice. Don't enter into a name-calling exchange with me unless you're prepared for a very lengthy and vitriolic exchange with a foul old bastard who could bear grudges for an entire continent.

	30-03-2004 01:57									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Ramo is referring to what I have said in previous threads, but yes, I still see every person as an individual.

Yet you still make posts suggesting that their race means they're more likely to be criminals. And you're significantly failing to back that up convincingly, yet still demand your stance to be equated to scientific rationalism.

	30-03-2004 02:00									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich stupid... Because there are about 300 million individuals in the US, and about eight or nine orders of magnitude fewer groups?

Not sure I follow your logic here- are you suggesting that convenience is a justification for prejudice?

	30-03-2004 02:03									#111
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Laz is the Boogie Man.
I wouldn't advise jacking with the Boogie Man.

	30-03-2004 02:04									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Yet you still make posts suggesting that their race means they're more likely to be criminals. And you're significantly failing to back that up convincingly, yet still demand your stance to be equated to scientific rationalism.

I personally treat people as individuals. Should the police? Not entirely. If an individual fits a criminal profile they will be looked at more closely. It's called good police work.

	30-03-2004 02:08									#113
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand That's why I laugh at The Horse. America's historical background is based on religion. Australian's all know full well that their heredity is steeped in deceit and dishonor.

So soon he forgets Georgia.

	30-03-2004 02:45									#114
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You can't tell who is more likely to commit crimes based on police records because they are skewed by the focus areas of the police departments, the skill of the criminals to get away with the crime, the skill/ineptitude of the lawyers involved in criminal cases.
One thing you can tell is that all manner of people commit all kinds of crimes and the motivation usually comes from need or greed.

An effective deterrent to crime would be to take away the need and for the ones that commit crimes out of greed to make it so the punishment will make it not worth committing. These 2 things are obviously not happening.

	30-03-2004 02:49									#115
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quote: For one thing, rich people commit PLENTY of crimes.

I didn't deny that, I just said they hide the bodies better.

quote: For another, crime happens for one, fundamental reason: people think the reward is worth the chance of getting caught, and they don't feel a moral compulsion not to commit the crime.

If they could just buy the "reward" they wouldn't need to take the "chance"... the moral compulsion is a good point, but what drives a person to challenge their morals? Wants/Desires

	30-03-2004 02:53									#116
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So Georgia is the source of your latest hard-on, Che?
Making the rounds like a little slut, aren't you?

	30-03-2004 02:55									#117
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quote: America's historical background is based on religion.

It's also based on slavery... I'd rather be a country of criminals than a country of religious dumbasses.

	30-03-2004 02:58									#118
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And the morally and ethically bankrupt words of Sava are certainly welcome in a poverty thread.
Fitting.

Run that mouth. Talk foolishly. It's expected.

	30-03-2004 03:00									#119
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand So Georgia is the source of your latest hard-on, Che?

Georgia is practically across the river. It's always on my mind.

	30-03-2004 03:39									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I personally treat people as individuals. Should the police? Not entirely. If an individual fits a criminal profile they will be looked at more closely. It's called good police work.

I do hope you work in management. If you can even delegate your prejudices, you are truly destined for greatness.