 |
| |
|
|
Caligastia
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
No I don't. I think you'd probably get a difference amounting to probably a smidgen of a fraction of a percentage point, and that smidgen of a fraction of a percentage point would immediately be pounced on by ****wits with an agenda from whichever side of the debate they choose to plague. |
By the way...what reason do you have for believing this? Do you have any evidence at all that the difference in criminality between races would be so miniscule? Or is this just a hunch you have?
In the end you're almost the same as me Laz. For whatever reason you think different races commit crimes at pretty much the same rate. I for whatever reason think there would be differences. The only difference is that you think your position is somehow morally superior and that anyone who thinks differently must be a ****wit.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
loinburger
|
 |
Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:34
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lorizael
It's a theory, Laz. |
A theory without supporting evidence is not a theory. It's a "hypotheis," or a "conjecture," or an "assumption," or "hunch," or a "wild guess," depending on the vocabulary of the person making it. The problem here being that, apart from some statistics thrown around about speeding (anybody have any statistics as to how many people living in poverty own a car?), there's been no evidence posted here to support your wild guess that poverty leads to crime. In fact, Che claims that poverty has minimal effect on crime, which is the exact opposite of what he should be saying if he's just inventing any old bullshit to support his political agenda.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lorizael
|
 |
The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:34
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loinburger
A theory without supporting evidence is not a theory. It's a "hypotheis," or a "conjecture," or an "assumption," or "hunch," or a "wild guess," depending on the vocabulary of the person making it. The problem here being that, apart from some statistics thrown around about speeding (anybody have any statistics as to how many people living in poverty own a car?), there's been no evidence posted here to support your wild guess that poverty leads to crime. In fact, Che claims that poverty has minimal effect on crime, which is the exact opposite of what he should be saying if he's just inventing any old bullshit to support his political agenda. |
Hey, don't call it my theory. I didn't come up with it. Uh, you're right, though, I haven't posted any evidence here to support that claim. But... there is more crime in poorer areas. That's fairly well known. Laz says he won't believe any crime statistics, but I think it's extremely cynical and careless to simply throw away all of them as being inaccurate or biased or wrong.
I wonder if Che'll stop being a commie now.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kuciwalker
|
 |
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's a study in a recent issue of Scientific American which shows that crime is only partially linked to poverty. The biggest factor in the rise and fall of crime in the 80s and 90s was the emergence and then lessening demand for crack cocaine. Almost every other fact, death penalty, tougher sentencing, more cops, demographics, economics, etc. had minor negligable effects on overall crime rates. |
 I read that, it was a good article (though the drug theory, like all of them, had it's problems, as was pointed out by the author)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lorizael
|
|
The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:34
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Why is it cynical to be critical of crime statistics anyway? Isn't it far more cynical to place value in something which is so fundamentally flawed and vulnerable to skewing factors, and then use it as a means to prop up a socio-political agenda? |
That's not being cynical, that's being stupid and political. Anyways, I don't feel like playing this little game with you. But I would like you to answer a few questions.
Do you believe that all statistics are unreliable?
If so, tell me why.
If not, tell me which ones are reliable and why, and tell me why crime statistics specifically are unreliable.
Now before you answer, know this. I am merely seeking your opinion on this matter. I am quite aware of how statistics can be skewed and abused, but I also believe that statistics can, in certain circumstances, have value.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Caligastia
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
That's a gross over-simplification, Cal.
I think some of them are ****wits. Others of them are gullible. A sector might be naive. Others are evil.
I am not about to make any apologies for that. You're quite right- I do feel morally and/or intellectually superior to people holding such views. What's more, I'm entirely comfortable with anyone else knowing that and the ramifications extending from it.
I feel absolutely no guilt or hurt about any of the consequences of any single view I have ever expressed on the subject of racism and race relations on the internet. That's where we differ. |
Actually you missed (or ignored) my main point, and that's that you have zero evidence to back up your assertion that crime levels are virtually the same among all racial groups. Yet you treat anyone with a differing opinion with distain. You remind me of a religious fundimentalist.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
 |
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
I looked for it, but didn't see it. |
You'll need to get it at the library or register to use sciam.com (which costs $). I posted the link so that people can see the synopsis.
A number of the hypotheses about crime seem to make sense, but the only one that roughly corresponds to the data seems to be the crack epidemic. As Skywalker points out, it has its problems, which the author pointed out, but of all the models it fits the data best.
While I think it true that people growing up in poor areas have less overall respect for the law and that the type of crime is more severe, I haven't seen any evidence that "middle-class" people don't commit lots of crime. It may be traffic crime, minor shop-lifting, stealing from the office, cheating on your taxes, etc. but it is crime nonetheless and it is quite frequent. And drug use is just as prevelent.
The rich commit quite a bit of crime. Fraud, tax cheating, polluting, etc. They just have better lawyers.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lazarus and the Gimp
|
 |
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:34
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lorizael
That's not being cynical, that's being stupid and political. Anyways, I don't feel like playing this little game with you. But I would like you to answer a few questions.
Do you believe that all statistics are unreliable?
|
No.
quote:
If not, tell me which ones are reliable and why
|
I'm buggered if I'm about to compile an exhaustive list. Try asking someone with huge quantities of free time. As a base rule, look for statistics covering finite and fully-quantifiable subjects that do not rely on multiple stages subject to significant skewing factors at each one. "Crime" stats are about as far away from that as it's possible to get.
quote:
, and tell me why crime statistics specifically are unreliable.
|
I already did. There is a vast quantity of unknowables and at every step of the judicial process there is the potential for significant skewing factors
quote:
Now before you answer, know this. I am merely seeking your opinion on this matter. I am quite aware of how statistics can be skewed and abused, but I also believe that statistics can, in certain circumstances, have value. |
In certain circumstances they can, but this one?
If a set of stats (saying blacks commit more crimes than whites) is used as a justification to put more police in black areas, the chances are that they'll detect more crimes committed by blacks. Et cetera, et cetera.
However anyone suggesting that this corroborates a racial basis for increased propensity to commit crimes is a moron.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:34.
Apolyton Time is 00:34. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
27-03-2004 04:29
|