28-03-2004 00:56									#1
	Multiplayer Strategy Guide 2nd Version Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This is the succession to the popular Multiplayer Strategy Guide discussion thread originally started from Nimrod.

Post your tips and tricks you use in your strategy against other players, based upon your experience or post any question you might have regarding the strategy involved in PBEM and Internet CtP games.

	29-03-2004 05:56									#2
	Re: Multiplayer Strategy Guide 2nd Version Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Keygen This is the succession to the popular Multiplayer Strategy Guide discussion thread originally started from Nimrod. Post your tips and tricks you use in your strategy against other players, based upon your experience or post any question you might have regarding the strategy involved in PBEM and Internet CtP games.

My strategy for land maps:
100% land, very wet

i try to get 3 hexes wood river for each city
i dont build on goods
i try to get as much triple monopoly citys as possible
(3 goods of the same type that can be reached with 1 city)
i bulit granery then aqueduct then mills then factrories,...
i build markets and banks in my trade city
if my science is too slow i built science buildings after factories
Does anyone play another strategy?
Please post your comments or you way to play
Post your island map strategy or 50%land 50%water

	29-03-2004 06:01									#3
	Re: Re: Multiplayer Strategy Guide 2nd Version Remove this text

Here is an island map save i played with the cubans and we played with a long peace periode. Look at Attilas good sonar planet controlling sonars

Load it as a singleplayer game then cheat modus and view the map

Attachment: fidel-kuba-1635n.zip
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Last edited by filix on 29-03-2004 at 06:34

	29-03-2004 06:11									#4
	Re: Re: Re: Multiplayer Strategy Guide 2nd Version Got spare money?

one example for a land game i played with the koreans
It would be good if yoda or paul would write something about strategies

PS: PaulNo1 is absolut no cheater!!

Attachment: yison-kore-150n.zip
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Last edited by filix on 29-03-2004 at 06:26

	29-03-2004 19:36									#5
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Yoda's main strategy is based on growth, which mean as many cities as possible at list until he meets his opponent

	30-03-2004 00:23									#6
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My strategy is similar to Filix, Yoda, and Paulno1. (See above.) However, I only proceed to factories if I anticipate a long game.

	30-03-2004 02:19									#7
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<--- Preacher of growth theory =)

©Dimytes 2004

	30-03-2004 04:24									#8
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In the challenge ladder thread the problem with unequal starting positions was raised.
I have made som calculations of different starting positions with just small differences.

The following example assume following
- Only produce settlers until you have 40 cities and then produce granary.
- All cities built on forest and work one ocean tile: 10 food 5 production 5 gold.
- Every 2nd city has a trade goods tile. Total 20 trade goods.
- Theocracy is enacted at turn 27
- Workday at max, rations at minimum.


CASE 1
Total gained in whole empire until turn 100:

Production: 91470
Food: 33595
Gold: 13711

Empire output at turn 100:
Production: 2681
Food: 1030
Gold: 401


CASE 2
If we change the first city so it has 2 tiles of forest+river we will get following result:

Production: 123954 +36%
Food: 44650 +33%
Gold: 17706 +29%

Empire output at turn 100:
Production: 2953 +10%
Food: 1085 +5%
Gold: 368 -8%


CASE 3
If we can make the 2 first cities to use only forest + river tiles (4 total) we will get the following result:

Production: 138431 +51%
Food: 48990 +46%
Gold: 19947 +45%

Empire output at turn 100:
Production: 3084 +15%
Food: 1090 +6%
Gold: 340 -15%


If we only study the first city, your capitol, for 100 turns we will get following accumulated values:

Case 1
Production: 5649
Food: 2160
Gold: 183 (no trade tile)

Case 2
Production: 10538 +87%
Food: 2695 +25%
Gold: 653 (no trade tile) +357%

Conclusion: Even if rivers gives a nice advantage it takes many river tiles to get huge boost on whole empire. +50% production in the best case above could make a difference in the end.
But..... when it comes to racing for wonders, rivers are EXTREMLY important., Just look on the production boost in one single city...
Also the gold output from the city gets very good, but looking on the whole empires total gold output it drops!But at turn 100 you should start to think about caravans/marketplaces in order to make your economy grow fast.

Edit 040402 Added current output for all cities at turn 100 also. Updated calculations above since I have forgot some parameters when calculating the values. Changed conclusion since it obviously was wrong due to my small "errors"

©Dimytes 2004

Last edited by Dimytes on 03-04-2004 at 03:54

	30-03-2004 06:33									#9
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Good post, Dimytes. Very informative.

	31-03-2004 02:54									#10
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I almsot exclusively start at age Renaissance


I often build upon a good for first 9-15 cities..therefore doubling the gold of that tile by having it under my city..

Helps jump-start gold while you have those improvements taking away

I do usually a diplomat then settler in each city and expand outward..when I have built my second settler ina good production city i start on caravans..


I like Gigantic maps so I have time for growth before encountering anyone, after second settler say on a non-river tile i start sending some sort of defense..1-2 pikemen..and a few knight or if lucky enuff calvary to be my anit-terrorist scouts against pillaging by barbs...

Works pretty good..and have been pretty successful

As time goes on I start building mills and factories and pumping out Calvary

two reason..
Excellent early responder for a threat and you can get a good return for dibanding them in a city you need to hurry up and buy something like a factory or even a drug store....


Of course this goes well with the sliders correctly positioned...MAX work day

Max wages

minimal rations


Peace

Grandpa Troll

Attachment: trolling x-ing sign.jpg
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	31-03-2004 20:47									#11
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Troll, I see you have forgot what I taught you.

Go back the Book of Tactics and start studying again!

©Dimytes 2004

	01-04-2004 04:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Dimytes Troll, I see you have forgot what I taught you. Go back the Book of Tactics and start studying again! ©Dimytes 2004

Dimytes..we havenet played MP and that my friend is a horse of a different color..
PLUS..Renaissance age is different strategy than ancient..

Maybe one day you will have time to play me MP and see if I fair better....

I have lost MP games before to great players..

BUT

NEVER as bad and as quickly as you have beaten me in PBEM..not exactly sure how you do it..for you easily do it to so many here..BUT..MP is much different than PBEM...trust me..therein is a Paradigm shift

I am not saying I will beat you but you most certainly will not trounce me as quickly as you do here...



But alas..we may never know..now will we Queen Dimetights??

	01-04-2004 10:39									#13
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Well, playing CTP in MP mode is not a mater of time, but matter of XP.

I am also pretty certain that I will perform worse in MP than PBEM because I take quite some time to analyze my moves. And I wouldn't have that time in a MP game.

But if anyone figures out how to get CTP running in MP mode I would be more than happy to start some games.

©Dimytes 2004

	01-04-2004 16:08									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Dimytes Well, playing CTP in MP mode is not a mater of time, but matter of XP. I am also pretty certain that I will perform worse in MP than PBEM because I take quite some time to analyze my moves. And I wouldn't have that time in a MP game. But if anyone figures out how to get CTP running in MP mode I would be more than happy to start some games. ©Dimytes 2004

Yes...you could join a game of mine..for I have 98SE when I play MP..perhaps..soon..eh??


GT

	03-04-2004 04:11									#15
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ah... ! here is this thread.

	03-04-2004 05:09									#16
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Updated calculations above.

©Dimytes 2004

	03-04-2004 05:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dimytes Well, playing CTP in MP mode is not a mater of time, but matter of XP. I am also pretty certain that I will perform worse in MP than PBEM because I take quite some time to analyze my moves. And I wouldn't have that time in a MP game. But if anyone figures out how to get CTP running in MP mode I would be more than happy to start some games. ©Dimytes 2004

Have you tried changing the properties of CtP so that it runs in a 98 environment?

Right click on the shortcut, choose properties, then compatibility tab, then check the compatibility mode box and choose windows 98/ME.

	03-04-2004 05:54									#18
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Nope I haven't.

That might be a good idea to try.

©Dimytes 2004

	03-04-2004 06:04									#19
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quote: Originally posted by ricketyclik Have you tried changing the properties of CtP so that it runs in a 98 environment? Right click on the shortcut, choose properties, then compatibility tab, then check the compatibility mode box and choose windows 98/ME.

Been there..done that..dont help..sorry...nice try..TRY again..

	15-04-2004 18:17									#20
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hello,

i would like to know whether the following behaviors are considered cheating or not (regarding PBEM play):

- looking at your own old turns of a game to have a picture of how the situation was a while ago.

- reconstructing a situation in the cheat mode of an independent single player game, using only the information of the actual game that you can legally access.

example:
i see a stack of 6 units on a forest with a samurai on top. i consider attacking that stack with my own stack of which i naturally know the contents.
the question is: am i allowed, before i make the decision to attack or not, to start a new single player game, open the cheat mode and give one AI a stack of 6 units on a forest including one samurai (guessing the remaining contents), then give myself "a copy" of the stack i have in the game and test out how the attack works ?
basically experience would give you the same result as testing it this way, so i dont see anything illegal about it.

- replaying a turn with the exact same decisions. note that the results will be the same if you use the same order of actions, due to the random seeding of the game.

example:
i make an attack and clicked close too fast, not memorizing which enemy units were participating. i reopen the turn, make the same actions in the same order, this time looking more closely at those units.

- replaying a turn with the same decisions in all situations involving randomness or otherwise 'hidden' information, but changing those decisions where none of these are involved.

example #1:
i end my turn but suddenly realize i forgot to adjust the slider settings. i reopen the turn, make everything identical as before, but adjust the slider settings.

example #2:
i rush buy a certain object, look at the next city and see i would have rather spent the money on that object. i reopen the turn and act accordingly (provided no random event made me change my mind or something like that).

---
thank you
math
trying to make the best out of his turns.

Last edited by Mathemagician on 18-04-2004 at 19:23

	17-04-2004 06:35									#21
	Remove this text

Why doesn't ctp have a birdge tile improvement?

	17-04-2004 06:38									#22
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you can build roads over river.

	17-04-2004 07:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician you can build roads over river.

..or even a Bridge over Troubled Water..by Architects & Engineers of Paul Simon & Art Garfunkel!!

GT

	17-04-2004 07:15									#24
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate Why doesn't ctp have a birdge tile improvement?

I been contemplating designing a "canal" tile

This would be where you could "unlock" a landlock area

U can a 1 tile by building a city..but if 2 or more..no good

ANY ideas..Ill look into it

Peace

GT

	18-04-2004 15:48									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll I been contemplating designing a "canal" tile

i have tried to edit the text files containing the tiles but i wasnt able to modify important traits. i specifically tried making forest an ocean square while keeping its other characteristics, but it didnt work.
i think in some things the game is too much hardcoded, nothing to be achieved with the text files then.

or do you have a different approach ?

	18-04-2004 16:02									#26
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about my above questions about what is illegal and what not, please someone respond. else i wont know what is illegal and will likely be using it.

also, another thing i would like to check.

- rush buying a building, then changing, not to a unit, but to another, more expensive, building

gavrushka just told me that this was banned a few years ago. how is it today ?

thanks

	18-04-2004 18:16									#27
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I dont really see any problem with rushbuing a building partly as long as you keep it to constructions that have the same rushbuy cost.

©Dimytes 2004

Last edited by Dimytes on 18-04-2004 at 18:31

	18-04-2004 18:20									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician about my above questions about what is illegal and what not, please someone respond. else i wont know what is illegal and will likely be using it. also, another thing i would like to check. - rush buying a building, then changing, not to a unit, but to another, more expensive, building gavrushka just told me that this was banned a few years ago. how is it today ? thanks

It is my understanding that "ramping" is regarded as an illegitimate bug use.

	18-04-2004 18:25									#29
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quote: Originally posted by ricketyclik It is my understanding that "ramping" is regarded as an illegitimate bug use.

hmm i dont see a bug in that (except that the costs for the new building seem to be calculated a bit odd), but if it is considered cheating, of course i wont do it anymore.

why is it called "ramping" btw ?

how about the other things i mentioned, a few posts above ?

quote: Originally posted by Dimytes I dont really see any problem with rushbuing a building partly as long as you keep it to constructions that have the same rushbuy cost.

you mean unit-unit, wonder-wonder, building-building ? or do you mean the same production cost like bank and mill ?
the first apparently is the "ramping" rickety described, the second one simply makes no sense.

	18-04-2004 18:31									#30
	Remove this text

As far as I know there are 3 rushbuy ratios. Units have one gold/production ratio, wonders another one and ordinary buildings a 3rd ratio. So what I meant was keeping it in those groups when rushbuing. There is no noticable effect of the total result by rushbuying partly. It could have some tactical advantages though.

©Dimytes 2004