26-04-2004 21:05									#61
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Blackice, you seem very certain of Paulno1's guilt. You must have mounds of evidence because you are obviously very upset with him. It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just stating what happened in our challenge match. He did not cheat, I'm sure of it. I can zip up all the turns, if you like, and send them to you (if I can dig them up ). He beat me fair and square, as far as I saw it. You're right to say that one honest game does not make one honest. It just seems very odd that he would cheat when he can beat a fairly decent player (me ) without cheating at all!??

	26-04-2004 22:18									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician Dimytes i pushed one city to size 22 this way, the slaves working for food, the free citizens researching with galileo's telescope. and once emancipation act hit the ground, i had even more scientists.

Were you guys trying to simulate the USA, and then you got spared for the civil war?

	26-04-2004 22:21									#63
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quote: Originally posted by quinns It just seems very odd that he would cheat when he can beat a fairly decent player (me ) without cheating at all!??

Perhaps he was such a clever cheater that you didn't notice?

	26-04-2004 22:26									#64
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Perhaps he was such a clever cheater that you didn't notice?

Perhaps! I can send you all the zipped game saves if you're interested in checking it. I believe there were 77 turns multiplied times 2 for dual-duel for a total of 154 turns.

	27-04-2004 01:52									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician you mentioned a PW-slic ? ive tried to modify PWs over a slic file (when trying to make 'honest' mods ), but had no success. how does one do that ?

code:
  trigger 'AddSILOPW' when(g.player) {
  SetPlayer(1, g.player);
  i=0;

  while (i < player.1.cities) {
    SetCityByIndex(1, player.1, i);
    if (CityHasBuilding(city, "IMPROVE_SILO")) {
      SetPW(player.1, player.1.publicworkslevel + 16 * city.population);
    }
    i = i + 1;
  }
}

this particular you just add to the SLIC then save it in what ever scenario default file in default gamedat file within the scenario folder..

What happens is for each city that builds a granary, EACH citizen in each city that HAS a Granary built gets 16 PW EACH turn


You can modify to make any improvement..and also any amo9unt of pw

I have tried such ideas as building a nuclear plant and giving each citizen 100pw..
so ideas are endless


Of course this code will not take care of any Dawgs dumping "ON" public works..thats another matter entirely

Peace

GT

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	27-04-2004 01:59									#66
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cool. thank you.
can you please also explain what the individual lines do ? e.g. why you need to use a "SetPlayer" command.

	27-04-2004 02:15									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician cool. thank you. can you please also explain what the individual lines do ? e.g. why you need to use a "SetPlayer" command.

Avoid the dark side of SLIC stay with using for scenarios, for the SLIC Powers are mightier than those of a mere Jedi-Knight....

SetPlayer I would think means just that when a "player i.e.1 meaning first uses all other will in turn..

I believe, as I have allowed such as JBYTHEWAY and Locutus to come up with this and many more..I simply tweak to suit my individual needs...

Peace

GT

	27-04-2004 02:18									#68
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thanks again

	27-04-2004 02:21									#69
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quote: Of course this code will not take care of any Dawgs dumping "ON" public works..thats another matter entirely

You worked that in nicely just so you could post that picture

	27-04-2004 02:24									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora You worked that in nicely just so you could post that picture

I am so proud of you..we will all salute you..for I live and breathe to post attachments...

	27-04-2004 02:27									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora You worked that in nicely just so you could post that picture

LOL didnt get that at first.

	27-04-2004 02:59									#72
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quote: Originally posted by quinns Perhaps! I can send you all the zipped game saves if you're interested in checking it. I believe there were 77 turns multiplied times 2 for dual-duel for a total of 154 turns.

Blackice you can write a book, but paul do not cheat i know him many years he is always a fair player.
But i know a story of a game with blackice where he edited the game to get unlimited gold
I dont mind what you do blackice i enjoy my games with paul. And i guess yoda found the rush buy bug.
Dont be angry blackice we just play a game and i dont have ego problems

	27-04-2004 03:24									#73
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quote: Originally posted by filix Blackice you can write a book, but paul do not cheat i know him many years he is always a fair player. But i know a story of a game with blackice where he edited the game to get unlimited gold I dont mind what you do blackice i enjoy my games with paul. And i guess yoda found the rush buy bug. Dont be angry blackice we just play a game and i dont have ego problems

Nice jump reverse hook....Blackice didnt see that coming..what will blackice do..

	27-04-2004 04:08									#74
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Paul used those tricks well before anyone knew of them, on opponents and called himself god... I will add he only disclosed the swap trick not the others which he continued to use after being hailed a hero...

I say bah on the hero bit he cheated, admitted to cheating and simply because he came clean on half of it does not make him anything more than a cheat period. Especially in the light he knew of the other exploits and never disclosed them, continued to use them to beat unsuspecting opponents. You call that what fair play? A decent guy? A sportsman? A good honest gamer? He cheated and still does even some that play with him regular today have questions still.

You have one game quinn and that is VOLUMES of proof of his innocence? I have never studied those saves you? Did he ramp?

It's not cheating? Using game exploits to defeat your opponent in any other game is concidered cheating including this one. So what Filix and quinn are saying is paul never used them to defeat his opponents? He admitted to it so what planet are you two on?

Yoda can attest to the fact paul also has admitted he will use them even if agreed not to if he is going down in the game I have a screen shot of that somewhere I could dig it up.... This too is not cheating? ok Most also think, some are sure they know he has two comps to look at game saves to study map positions during the game...

Actually Filix that story is incorrect, it is one paul loves to tell though. No I was testing a game patch that in fact has been in use. I have freely shown this patch to who ever would like to see it's use and learn what to look for unlike the ones who use it...As I said I was able to use this patch to mimic pauls gold and pw to a tee. He uses an average of 10 gold per turn and uses and average of 10 pw per citizen. The patch was only used to test I did not rack up endless GL points and go about bragging I won these games did I? I also targeted paul for this test for obvious reason's.

Good points Troll why is that? Quinn have you ever even come close to beating paul online under not so controled environment? I think not and keep in mind these near wins and one win for Gav came shortly after the chit hit the fan. Until then no one came close remember?

On another note nice to see the thread jumping again

Last edited by blackice on 27-04-2004 at 04:20

	27-04-2004 04:15									#75
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so, blackice, to strengthen your point, you should show us where paul admitted that he cheated.
a quote and a link would be nice.

	27-04-2004 04:31									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician so, blackice, to strengthen your point, you should show us where paul admitted that he cheated. a quote and a link would be nice.

We are awaiting a judges decision...the point should be awarded to Master Mathemagician...but "Blackbelt" Blackice my have the point after all

	27-04-2004 04:32									#77
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Mathemagician and others new to this er old conversation, all the top GL guys used this trick to win games. Few knew about it we PBEMER's knew something was up and kept digging. It was Paul that finally told quinn what he and the others including filix were doing to defeat anyone not in the loop.

Thats' the begining but what we know now is the ramping and the rest was never disclosed at the same time. meaning while some of these guys pretended to come clean they kept more exploits back to continue to defeat opponents. I ask how can one be called honest and not a cheat under those curcumstances?

My personal opinion is they cheated, continued to cheat and we say it is ok? They continue to come up with more use it against people to claim the victory, then brag about it. Tis that fair play?

Here I hope still we post em as we find them so everything is on the up and up and no one person or clic has an unfair advantage. If not we call it cheating so why do we split the hairs with paul? He cheated and as far as some are concerned still does.

Now some say he never cheats? never did... Ok people have a right to thier own opinion...

	27-04-2004 04:45									#78
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okay blackice, from the standpoint of a new player, IF all you say is true, then sure it is cheating. but if you want us new players as listeners, you should indeed bring some proof. if not, continue arguing with the old players.

as a general definition,
as i see it, using a bug without knowing it is one is okay, as there is no complete listing of what specific actions that are absolutely possible are actually forbidden. so you cant blame someone for using what he found that works. if there is such a listing it really should be linked to at every relevant thread.

secondly, assuming something is banned, but not asking, is suspicious, but cannot really be proven to be intentious and, thus, cheating.

once you are told however, that the community agreed to ban something, if you continue to do it, it becomes cheating. no questions asked.

	27-04-2004 04:46									#79
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Mathemagician and others new to this er old conversation, all the top GL guys used this trick to win games. Few knew about it we PBEMER's knew something was up and kept digging. It was Paul that finally told quinn what he and the others including filix were doing to defeat anyone not in the loop. Thats' the begining but what we know now is the ramping and the rest was never disclosed at the same time. meaning while some of these guys pretended to come clean they kept more exploits back to continue to defeat opponents. I ask how can one be called honest and not a cheat under those curcumstances? My personal opinion is they cheated, continued to cheat and we say it is ok? They continue to come up with more use it against people to claim the victory, then brag about it. Tis that fair play? Here I hope still we post em as we find them so everything is on the up and up and no one person or clic has an unfair advantage. If not we call it cheating so why do we split the hairs with paul? He cheated and as far as some are concerned still does. Now some say he never cheats? never did... Ok people have a right to thier own opinion...

Asking for a scoring decison on behalf of Blackice of Canadian Team of Experts:

Like the man said.....

	27-04-2004 04:52									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician okay blackice, from the standpoint of a new player, IF all you say is true, then sure it is cheating. but if you want us new players as listeners, you should indeed bring some proof. if not, continue arguing with the old players.

not exactly so Math

as you see..he has not posted his proof..but..~ahem~ he has your attention!!! & U R SURELY LISTENING


Peace

GT

	27-04-2004 04:56									#81
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This kind of reminds me of people using Rushbuy bug and farms under cities bugs in secret CtP2 GL (altho its not like you could *hide* the farms under the cities but still...)

	27-04-2004 04:58									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll not exactly so Math as you see..he has not posted his proof..but..~ahem~ he has your attention!!! & U R SURELY LISTENING

LOL
youre right. i should have said "if you want us new players to believe you"

	27-04-2004 05:01									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora This kind of reminds me of people using Rushbuy bug and farms under cities bugs in secret CtP2 GL (altho its not like you could *hide* the farms under the cities but still...)

Thats exactly where we are headed..L-O-S-E-R-V-I-L-L-E..IF YA DONT ALL STOP YER DAMN CHEATING..

(HIKING PANTS UP SHOWING mR. jOHNSON'S OUTLINE!! )

No more cheats...yu want a farm under a city..go to Green acres..ok?

Not in CTP...

Now (pushes glasses up nose) r-we-clear here?

GT

	27-04-2004 05:03									#84
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Maquiladora exactly and that brought down not only the GL but the pbem side too. I remeber following those threads and watching CTP gl's deny it could be done in CTP.

	27-04-2004 05:05									#85
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if it looks like a duck,
walks like a duck,
quacks like a duck,
you still have to make sure is not some child with some cardboard-beak and amazing vocal imitation skills, before you decide to shoot it.

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	27-04-2004 05:06									#86
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Good points Math you see in GL it was posted and part of the rules that no game exploits and or bugs as they are called were to be used. That makes it cheating does it not?

They knew they knew all to well many heated arguement in the GL threads about this topic. The end result the largest CTP gaming network was brought to it's knees because of cheating and mistrust. A total shame for the few cheaters who only had one thing in mind. To be the best at any cost. Even when the game site moderators saw and knew the cheating was going on they ignored it until it was too late. Many files and game saves were sent to them, Kent Wang definately comes to mind. They knew this sellect group of people were using these exploits to win game after game on unsuspecting opponents. They fudged on the ruling and then back tracked by then it was too late.

In fact I think activison reps even made a call on it.

We servived all that here in PBEM by making rules and enforcing them with moderators. Not many cheats moved this way for they knew they would be caught.



Math you child? cute

Last edited by blackice on 27-04-2004 at 05:19

	27-04-2004 05:13									#87
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Good points Math you see in GL it was posted and part of the rules that no game exploits and or bugs as they are called were to be used. That makes it cheating does it not? Math you child? cute

Well..Mr Blackice the Enforcer has his arm around you Math..you longhaired hippy liberal..


answer HIM!!


NOW!!

	27-04-2004 05:17									#88
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Good points Math you see in GL it was posted and part of the rules that no game exploits and or bugs as they are called were to be used. That makes it cheating does it not?

sure. but
1.) what is GL ?
2.) "game exploit" is something that you need to define case by case. you cannot expect all players to interpret "game exploit" the same way.

	27-04-2004 05:19									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll Math..you longhaired hippy liberal.. answer HIM!! NOW!!

oh, sorry. of course.

quote: Originally posted by blackice Math you child? cute

no its neither my child nor me.
just got the picture from somewhere in the net.
where do you get all those pictures from, troll ?

	27-04-2004 05:24									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician sure. but 1.) what is GL ? 2.) "game exploit" is something that you need to define case by case. you cannot expect all players to interpret "game exploit" the same way.

#1-GL=Game League

#2-Kinda like "laws of the land" They have been defined here and a multitude of times..

I am one of old timers here..and at CTP..what Blackice is speaking of is common sense..
A person would know that the game didnt ship with the expressed desire to "write slic" to give an unfair advantage..be it gold or pw crack..thats BU[[${-}!T when someone does it....

I have seen saved game files and mighty suspicious goings on...




BUT the point here is this math..we are talking about blantant abuse...

Hope this clears it up 4 u?