28-03-2004 08:55									#1
	Foreign Affairs - CDG Got spare money?

3200BC

We have contacted CDG via Grog meeting one of their warriors. Working on the initial communication strategy.

Edit by conmcb25, from the playstyles of other teams thread:

quote: CDG - Vikings: Bezerkers BFM: Were knocked out of the ISDG, especially by GCA. GhengisFarb (Apolyton member, and now on our team) was on their team. Donegeal: We will see spears and archers from these guys. They will go for the Leo's path to upgrade archers to bezerkers and spear to pike to defend them. If we come accross these guys, it might be wise to try to take them out with Sword/Hop or Archer/Hop stacks if Iron is unavailable. We are pretty safe from these guys (they will be looking to make friends with us). GhenhisFarb: Micaleus Rex, their leader, is militant, probably one of the better players but usually not the leader of the group. He's the one that tends to go by the seat of his pants approach. Not much on build up and sending in large attack groups. CDG has a very different play style than us, and can be manipulated if properly handled.

This is posted here for easy access since this is a very current issue for the team - con

	29-03-2004 08:39									#2
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I propose:

quote: CDG Greetings from the people and consuls of Apolyton! We ae pleased to meet you. I am Beta, the Minister of Foreign Affairs for Apolyton. We are in the process of assigning an ambassador to your fine nation. Once the ambassador is in place, we can establish an appropriate communications protocol. I trust all is well with the people of CDG, and we look forward to further dialogue and potential tech trading. ...Beta, of Apolyton.

This message is consistent with the chat of last night.

We are quick off the mark to say 'hello', but assigning the ambassador buys us some time. This allows us to determine our course of action and see what they are up to in the next couple of moves with their settler.

Looking for feedback - and especially from the consuls.

Edited for spelling.

	29-03-2004 08:45									#3
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Looks fine to me except for two items. I'd removed the "and potential tech trading" at the end and you have a spelling error. Only two 's's in assigning.

	29-03-2004 09:31									#4
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I think the tech trading part is one of the most important. If we leave it out, it looks bland. Keep it in and the message looks MUCH more friendly (plus, a tech partner, especially one that is scientific, is excatly what CDG wants).

	29-03-2004 09:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal I think the tech trading part is one of the most important. If we leave it out, it looks bland. Keep it in and the message looks MUCH more friendly (plus, a tech partner, especially one that is scientific, is excatly what CDG wants).

I agree but Im not sure its something I want to jump into right off the bat in the first message.

Uor whole goal here is to look like the normal Apoly Team but remain nebulous.

Im leaning towards Rhoths comments.

	29-03-2004 09:48									#6
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I did say 'potential'. I think the tech trade comment has to stay. It is standard initial topic in all mp games, and not including it would look suspicious, IMO.

Also - I only see two s' on assigning. (did someone edit it??)

But the 'are' is missing and 'r'.

I will aim to send this tomorrow morning. I will send to the cdg address in the info center:

idg@cdgroup.org

Attention: Micaelis Rex (team captain)

	29-03-2004 09:53									#7
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I agree but Im not sure its something I want to jump into right off the bat in the first message. Uor whole goal here is to look like the normal Apoly Team but remain nebulous. Im leaning towards Rhoths comments.

That was exactly why I suggested taking it out. If we tell them one thing and then kill them then we're being politicians. If we don't tell them we want to trade in this first contact we still have the opportunity to do so in the future if we don't obliterate their nation right off the bat.

I guess my point is, "don't give out too much too soon." If we tell them we want to trade then our reputation would be shot if we then obliterate them. Obviously they would be the only ones to know, but look what happened in the first ISDG with Poly hurting its reputation...even though it was just with GCA and GWT.

	29-03-2004 12:05									#8
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What about this:

quote: Originally posted by Beta. CDG Greetings from the people and consuls of Apolyton! We are pleased to meet you and glad that it is the Elucidians that we share this land with. Past relations with your team from previous games has been a pleasant experience and we hope to continue thatin this one. I am Beta, the Minister of Foreign Affairs for Apolyton. We are in the process of assigning an ambassador to your fine nation. Once the ambassador is in place, we can establish an appropriate communications protocol. I trust all is well with the people of CDG, and we look forward to further dialogue. Tech trading reference removed. ...Beta, of Apolyton.

I think we need to emphasize previous good relations we have had with them to set a positive mood and to maintain a friendly tone.

I know what you were talking about with not giving tech trade talk a free "step" towards completion.

	29-03-2004 12:22									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Though I'd rather keep the other game out of this, and despite keeping in mind what I've been told was an agressive stance taken by CDG in the other game before the GCA Border Wars, I'm all for trying to keep as friendly a stance as possible. We're not going to have an excuse for threatening their capital if we go through with that plan. Friendly tones for now, yes.

	29-03-2004 12:53									#10
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Relations with CDG in the PTW ISDG started out stiff, but by the end, we got along fabulously. Throwing away something like this because its "a new game" is a waste.

	29-03-2004 16:05									#11
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I like Beta's original recipe. It's simple and does not hedge.

	29-03-2004 17:38									#12
	Remove this text

Beta is the head of FAM, I bow to the superior (in this avenue ONLY ).

	29-03-2004 18:39									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Though I'd rather keep the other game out of this, and despite keeping in mind what I've been told was an agressive stance taken by CDG in the other game before the GCA Border Wars, I'm all for trying to keep as friendly a stance as possible. We're not going to have an excuse for threatening their capital if we go through with that plan. Friendly tones for now, yes.

Agreed.

	29-03-2004 18:45									#14
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Sent this morning:

quote: Micaelis Rex of CDG Greetings from the people and consuls of Apolyton! We are pleased to meet you. I am Beta, the Minister of Foreign Affairs for Apolyton. We are in the process of assigning an ambassador to your fine nation. Once the ambassador is in place, we can establish an appropriate communications protocol. I trust all is well with the people of CDG, and we look forward to further dialogue and potential tech trading. ...Beta, of Apolyton

Thanks one and all for the feedback. I am going with the original message. I feell it is the best approach at this time - and we need to get something to them.

	30-03-2004 02:48									#15
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We should send the Priest of Apollyton, speaking in riddles, to confuse CDG.

	30-03-2004 02:51									#16
	Remove this text

I'm starting to think that panag's spirit is speaking through the Oracle!

	30-03-2004 06:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I'm starting to think that panag's spirit is speaking through the Oracle!

Have a nice Greek day.

	30-03-2004 08:21									#18
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We need an ambassador for CDG pronto. GK filled in a bit and I filled in as well this evening. The chat will be posted elsewhere, but I'd like to post on this specific idea here for discussion.

This is what CDG has proposed (as posted by GK, but I'm reposting on it here):

They trade us WC + Writing (11) in exchange for BW, IW, Pottery (11).

One team then researching Code of Laws. The other researches Philosophy (or, alternately, researches a cheap tech THEN Philosophy). Code of Laws must be finished first and gifted to the Philosophy team. They then finish Philosophy and receive REPUBLIC as the free tech. This tech is then gifted to the other team.

This would make the most expensive early tech, Republic, free to both of us, and avoid the competition over Philosophy that usually results. It could save us both a hell of a lot of research.

... Frankly, this one tech scheme really shifts the balance in favor of a cooperative policy towards CDG. I recommend that if we cannot find any CLEAR targets of opportunity to attack in CDGland, that we abort our sneak attack and embrace cooperation and beat these guys anytime before they get their berserkers.

--Togas

	30-03-2004 08:30									#19
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Beta, if you wouldn't mind, please review their tech trade proposal and create a poll for it. We should, of course, consider it IN LIGHT of our current hostile attitude ... we may turn down the trade because of our possible attack or we may turn back because of the trade.

Some additional things to think about. The tech trade poll (and thread) will help shead some light on how the team feels.

--Togas

	30-03-2004 09:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Togas ... Frankly, this one tech scheme really shifts the balance in favor of a cooperative policy towards CDG. I recommend that if we cannot find any CLEAR targets of opportunity to attack in CDGland, that we abort our sneak attack and embrace cooperation and beat these guys anytime before they get their berserkers.

I am working on an ambassador.

Will start the poll.

	03-04-2004 00:52									#21
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Received from Louis XXIV of CDG. Also forwarded to Vander, ambassador for CDG.

quote: Message From CDG Greetings from fair Elucida. We come to you to discuss how far you may have gotten in our plans to commit to an agreement to trade technology with each other. As we've said before, the benefits of us both getting The Republic early are very good. We are close to finishing Writing, and wish to know your status with Pottery. In other matters, some on our team are anxious about the fact that you have 2 warriors approaching our capital. To calm their fears, we would like to propose a non-aggression pact to be put in place for 10 turns. This will allow you enough time to explore and retract, and grant us assurance that you are indeed a friendly and civil people. Because of your vicinity to our nation's capital, we encourage you to act upon this proposal expediently. Thank you for your continued friendship; may our peoples live in harmony from now until the end of time. Sincerely, Louis XXIV Foregin Minister of Elucidia

In a second pm he asked for responses to go to Micaelis Rex.

	03-04-2004 03:38									#22
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I need your input on what to write back. I have the impression that we are going to have a peaceful stance with them (for now). So are we going to agree to this?

	03-04-2004 04:21									#23
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so much for the sneak attack....

10 turn NAP sounds good for now, although, to make them feel easier, we should agree to the 10 turns and propose 20 turns as a counter offer.

E_T

	03-04-2004 07:06									#24
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(my opinion)
Let's sign a 20 turn NAP with these guys. Also let them know (if they haven't noticed already) that we agree to trade BW for WC.

--Togas

	03-04-2004 09:32									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm all for it. We're going to have to work with these people, unfortunately (I'd much rather that we were farther away from our opponents). If we're going to consider taking them out, it'll have to be late Middle Ages or Industrial, because those berserks scare the **** outta me.

	03-04-2004 09:56									#26
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why? after we build zeus we can sweep them out, if still needed
we should explore north and see if there is no third player and after this rethink our strategies.

	03-04-2004 10:13									#27
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I agree with ormuzd on the long-term, we may want to take them out yet.

But either 10 or 20 turns for a NAP short-term would be fine. Preferably 20.

	03-04-2004 13:25									#28
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I'd say 20. They asked for 10, let's give them 20 to ease their fears. Then when we pull back they'll realize they can trust us (well, sort of ) and continue to work with us on tech. Once we have that tech deal in place and done then we can revisit taking them out with our new force of Ancient Cavs.

	03-04-2004 23:01									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ONLY IF THEY PROMISE TO LET US DO PHILOSOPHY!!!

As the Scientific civ in our appearent little "co-operation" ( ), our "team" effort would be better off with us doing it because we get a better shot at a SGL. If they don't let us and say "you had your chance", we cut all deals and crush them.

	04-04-2004 01:15									#30
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* E_T forgot about this little part of C3C and agrees

Lets try to get them to let us do it first.

E_T