29-04-2004 03:07									#91
	The Great Deception Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The diplomatic winds are shifting. Apolyton and the Ladderites are the future masters of the world, and there is no room for Elucidia on the top. We need to keep CGN's head in the sand (or the clouds) until as late as possible. This will be accomplished through gifts and assurances of peace. As the Diplomat to CGN, I need to know what to tell CGN. From chat the other day with MRex and Louis XXIV, these points were gleaned:


- CDG wants Pottery this turn, if at all possible

- CDG wants a stronger alliance

- Not convinced that we are going to not attack them

- Do not want to have an early war; want to stay in republic (once recieved)


From that, it seems that they want another trade/ NAP treaty that will put us around the beginning of the Middle Ages. Any thoughts?

	29-04-2004 03:19									#92
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If we have to have an NAP to shut them up, then it should not, or even can not last until we are near the next age. FULL STOP.

Give them pottery, to allay the suspicians.

What else do we have to trade? A worker? If we trade them the other techs, they will know we met another civ, and we really do not want that at the moment.

	29-04-2004 03:19									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Pottery: Sure.

Stronger Alliance: Eep. Stall.

Not convinced we are not going to attack them: Why would we attack? We have a great tech deal going.

Do not want to have an early war: Doesn't really need comment, I think.

	29-04-2004 03:28									#94
	Re: The Great Deception Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Vander The diplomatic winds are shifting. Apolyton and the Ladderites are the future masters of the world, and there is no room for Elucidia on the top. We need to keep CGN's head in the sand (or the clouds) until as late as possible. This will be accomplished through gifts and assurances of peace. As the Diplomat to CGN, I need to know what to tell CGN. From chat the other day with MRex and Louis XXIV, these points were gleaned: - CDG wants Pottery this turn, if at all possible Fine no problem - CDG wants a stronger alliance Tell them we are willing to extend the 20 turn NAP. As far as a stronger allaince goes tell them for right now we are discussing it our forums and we will get back to them. - Not convinced that we are going to not attack them Tell them then why are we agreeing to a NAP? And extending the NAP? And why do we have this great tech deal going? Tell em, Hey we are buildiers and early age war is messy, we want the same thing. - Do not want to have an early war; want to stay in republic (once recieved) Same as above From that, it seems that they want another trade/ NAP treaty that will put us around the beginning of the Middle Ages. Any thoughts?

Go with the nap right now. Extend it another 20 turns. We can discuss specific techs as we get closer to them. Tell them quite frankly we have not thought past republic but we will begin discussing that so we can reach consensus as a team. Let them know we are busy with a lot of issues right now like city planning the upcoming consel elections, what our build sequences are going to be. We just need time to discuss these issues and reach a consensus, but we want the same things basically peace for the forseeable future. (Dont be exact be vague about it)

	29-04-2004 08:24									#95
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

No NAP's

Ever

They are evil.
We should have a team policy, that NAP's are forbidden.
It's probably the only GS policy that I agree with.

I have voted against every NAP's in the ISDG, and will continue to do so here.

	29-04-2004 16:53									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I concur with con. H_E - I understand your position, but adopting that stance now will clearly alert CDG.

btw - I am afk until tomorrow evening.

	29-04-2004 17:23									#97
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As they have presented to us the beginings of a "Game Long NAP", they will be suspecious of anything short of us signing what that put out.

We could possibly make them content by telling them that we can extend the one we have.

Let me start again. If we drag our feet in extending our current NAP

	29-04-2004 17:37									#98
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

dammit... hit the wrong button...

If we drag our feet on extending our current NAP until it expires, they are going to know that we are coming for them. The only way to prevent this, is by extending our current deal. If we do this (which I feel we have to do), we will end up breaking a treaty.

Now if we have to break a treaty, what difference does it make wether it was a "Game-Long" or a "20 Turn Extension"?

If we just sign extensions, CDG will always be worried.
If we sign a game long one, CDG will still be worried, but not as much so.

	29-04-2004 18:34									#99
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

They are going to be suspicious to us no matter what we do.

So I still say just extend it and tell them we are discussing a more "all encompassing" relationship in our forums.

I agree breaking a NAP is bad, breaking an alliance is worse, and I would prefer to avoid either.

	29-04-2004 19:17									#100
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Its just that I think it is unavoidable at this point. But then, this is also why I'm not in the FAM...

	29-04-2004 19:32									#101
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Then, maybe, I was wrong about thinking we could ally with them safely. If they're going to take such a suspicous attitude, I'd rather take them soon. It's not a good sign of things to come.

Basically, I want to stall. Sign NAPs, but keep them as short as possible (~10-20 turns) to keep our options open honorably.

	29-04-2004 19:34									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Its just that I think it is unavoidable at this point. But then, this is also why I'm not in the FAM...

And Im full of $hit, so I am

I think unavoidable is strong, tricky or difficult , yes, and you maybe right. But as far as I know, (help me here Beta) I dont think Apoly has ever agreed to a "game long NAP".

So if push comes to shove we can always say "we just have a policy of not entering game long NAP's" period.

And not only that but then we can say "Hey guys there has been a lot of discussion in our forums to establish a policy of not doing NAP's. So for right now lets do a 20 turn extension before the No NAP's group wins out and we wont be able to do a NAP."

That way we steer it into hey we are kind of doing you guys a favor, so quit whinning and sign a NAP extension.



They are going to want to tech cooperate with us.

They are going to take what we give them ESPECIALLY if they look at the power graph.

We just be nice and pleasent and use stall tactics, and rely on the fact that this IS a demo game and we need to poll our citizen input. (having to poll means more delay because we will have to get back to you on this)

	29-04-2004 19:37									#103
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Donegeal If we drag our feet on extending our current NAP until it expires, they are going to know that we are coming for them. The only way to prevent this, is by extending our current deal. If we do this (which I feel we have to do), we will end up breaking a treaty.

Thus why NAP's should never be signed.
I have argued against every one that we have signed in the ISDG.

(I must of missed it when the current one was signed with CGN in this game )

They limit our actions way too much.
If circumstances force you to attack your NAP partner, you will either break the agreement (bad) or give them warning of your attack by refusing to sign an extension (bad)

Never offer or agree to NAP's.

	29-04-2004 19:46									#104
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What about giving them the NAP, then letting PAL do the dirty work while we finance their operation?

Im pretty confident that PAL backed with techs and gold from us would find mopping them up pretty easy and would allow us to build a defensive army at the same time so we don't have to worry so much about PAL attacking us when they are done.

	29-04-2004 20:00									#105
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Thus why NAP's should never be signed. I have argued against every one that we have signed in the ISDG. (I must of missed it when the current one was signed with CGN in this game ) They limit our actions way too much. If circumstances force you to attack your NAP partner, you will either break the agreement (bad) or give them warning of your attack by refusing to sign an extension (bad) Never offer or agree to NAP's.

I think we need to eventually discuss this H_E because quite frankly, Im beginning to see the wisdom in this.

Unfortunately we already signed a NAP and now we are stuck, the best we can do is try and time the next extension(s) so that they run out while our SoD is approaching CDG (if we go the eliminate CDG route).

	29-04-2004 20:07									#106
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by wervdon What about giving them the NAP, then letting PAL do the dirty work while we finance their operation? Im pretty confident that PAL backed with techs and gold from us would find mopping them up pretty easy and would allow us to build a defensive army at the same time so we don't have to worry so much about PAL attacking us when they are done.

This is not a bad plan, however geographicaly we are closer to CDG. And taking out CDG in the ancient age would be a much surer thing if two Civ's contributed to the effort. Ancient age warfare is just messy, plain and simple.

Also as part of that building trust exercise with PAL we will really have to contribute something.

At least a hoplite/ catapult/ horse stack and preferably a hoplite/catapult/swordsman/ Zeus Horseman (whatever they are called) stack.

building defenses for us is a peice of cake. 20 sheild hoplites in the ancient age are just super defensive units. And the main reason we chose the greeks. From the latest poll it looks like we are building our first "camp" next turn at 6,6 of Apolyton, that would be an excellent candidate for a barracks/ hoplite/ worker for pop control camp. and eventually that maybe our candidate city for Statue of Zeus Wonder.

	30-04-2004 04:34									#107
	Suffering from ads?

Thanks for the imput, guys.

Well, from what I've seen, I think the best way to go (For me) is to not really talk to CDG for a while. When they do call me up, I'll say something like "we've been talking about PAL" (I bet they'll have met them by now). I will then tell them that the Full Alliance stuff is still being hashed out and that until we get it, we'll extend the current NAP/ Trade deals until an arbitrary point.

In other words, I'm going to stall for time and not commit to anything that I can not commit to.

	30-04-2004 05:01									#108
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I wouldn't mention PAL unless they do or we are sure they have contact. The best way to know: Ask PAL if they have contact.

	30-04-2004 05:10									#109
	Increase Your PM Length

wervdon: Yea, I'm just hoping that time will play out favorably for us .

On another note, the CDG chat has been posted in the FA corrispondance thread.

	30-04-2004 05:26									#110
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yep dont mention PAL at all until we KNOW they have contact.

They are afraid of something or very ready to break a nap if they want a game long NAP.

I think they are trying to make us feel good till those dam berserkers start running berserk

	30-04-2004 09:51									#111
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have the same feeling - they said something like "you have hoplites and we don't want any war because they are superior until the epoch of berserks" (I have closed the FA corespondence thread but it was something like that)

	08-05-2004 08:26									#112
	Support Apolyton

Despite the focus on PAL taking up so much time (deservedly, IMO), we need to watch what to do here. GK posted a new chat with CDG member Micaelis Rex in the Comms thread (topped), where he asked us about a proposed game-long NAP and alliance that may have been discussed previously (with Donegeal onegeal and Vander), and perhaps not reported in the forum! He stalled reasonably well (appears you just told the truth about not knowing, GK! ), but we have to consider carefully how to turn these things down, or whether we should sign something and then break it later on.

Personally I would hope we don't break anything and that we can convince them that a game-long alliance is too difficult in an elimination game. They propose that we stick together no matter what, but what if the others do that too? How could we all chose? Best for BOTH teams to keep themselves flexible (in the interests of survival, practicality rules) with no indefinite NAPs or alliances. We should bombard them with all the fine details we are omitting from the PAL agreement in order to convince them it is not worth it, and generally ill-advised.

	08-05-2004 09:44									#113
	Increase the size of your Attachments

the chat was published somewhere in the threads. I remember we havedelayed the decision about it becausewe had to discuss the alliance with PAL.

Here are the links:
summary (this thread, ~20 posts earlier in this thread)
full chat log (FA correspondence thread)

Last edited by ormuzd on 08-05-2004 at 09:58

	09-05-2004 01:28									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I tell you, you get ready for ONE final, and look what happens...

Anyway, I did not know of GK's chat from a little bit ago, so that all is news to me.
He did mention in there that maybe we should tell CDG about PAL.... If we want to, then I'll write up a quick letter (unless that is already done, too ). So, whatever.

	11-05-2004 05:38									#115
	Inflate your Upload Space

MRex is in chatroom, looking to talk to someone

quote: [MRex> sorry to keep bothering you, just wondering what on earth is taking so long for poly to get back to us... [E_T> mothers day, more likely [MRex> probably . . [MRex> anyway, i gotta run. nice talking with ya * MRex is now known as MRex|Away

He is in the #isdgfamtalks room right now. Remember, this room is for the other game, and we really need one for this game./...

E_T

	11-05-2004 05:40									#116
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hold on... what EXACTLY is MRex waiting for us to "get back to him" about? Please tell me what is the current pending question so that we can post an answer and get back to him.

--Togas

	11-05-2004 06:28									#117
	Put an end to popups!

Togas: I believe they were proposing a game-long NAP. We should probably tell them there's been little discussion but that response hasn't been favorable.

	11-05-2004 09:22									#118
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Chat log, per Togas' request:

quote: Session Start: Mon May 10 22:34:30 2004 Session Ident: #c3c_isdg_embassy [ 22:34:30 ]  · · [ 22:34:30 ]  · · Now talking in: : [ #c3c_isdg_embassy ] [ 22:34:30 ]  · · [ 22:34:30 ]  · · Topic: : [ The International Embassy of Apolyton ] [ 22:34:30 ]  · · Set by: : [ Octavian_X ] on : [ Wednesday April 28 2004 22:01:22 ] [ 22:34:30 ]  · · Users: : [ 4 ], Ops: : [ 0/0% ], Voiced: : [ 0/0% ], Regs: : [ 4/100% ] [ 22:34:30 ]  · · Join synced in: : [ 0.063 ] secs [ 22:34:30 ]  · · [ 22:34:35 ]  · · ChanMode : ChanServ sets mode [ +o ] Octavian_X [ 22:34:35 ]  [ Togas ] OctX [ 22:34:35 ]  [ Togas ] Op us [ 22:34:48 ]  [ MRex ] so i take it that the whole idea was just some miscommunication between the ambassador and our team? [ 22:34:56 ]  · · ChanMode : Octavian_X sets mode [ +ooo ] Togas MRex conmcb25 [ 22:35:17 ]  [ @Togas ] Perhaps. I'm not sure. He never ASKED us about signing one, just communicated that "CDG was interested in a long term alliance" [ 22:35:31 ]  [ @Togas ] I read that as meaning that you guys are intersted in a long term friendship [ 22:35:42 ]  [ @Togas ] wait, excuse me. i should have said "CDG was interested in a Game Long NAP" [ 22:35:59 ]  [ @Togas ] as you can see, I'm sort of reading into stuff a bit. I probably shouldn't do that [ 22:36:13 ]  [ @MRex ] yes, in essence that is what this is. friendships are alot easier on both parties though if you don't have to worry about 50 units invading your territory next turn [ 22:36:30 ]  [ @Togas ] yeah, i can understand that. [ 22:37:01 ]  [ @Togas ] but you rarely want to invade your friends ... ruins a perfectly good friendship. Especially when you have trade and tech deals ongoing. [ 22:37:33 ]  [ @MRex ] yes, of course. it is unethical in my opinion to ever declare war while you have a tech deal ongoing [ 22:38:27 ]  [ @MRex ] speaking of which, how far away from IW are you guys now? [ 22:38:29 ]  [ @Togas ] it's also not very smart, IMO .... we DID have people on our team that were calling for us to attack your unarmed settler, but those of us in power (Con, OctX, myself) knew better. [ 22:38:53 ]  [ @Togas ] NAP or not, we're not going to attack you with this great tech deal going on [ 22:39:08 ]  [ @MRex ] i should hope not [ 22:39:29 ]  [ @Togas ] anyhow, IW, I think we're ... 3 turns? [ 22:39:42 ]  ! @Togas looks to Con and OctX [ 22:39:44 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] A little more Togas [ 22:39:50 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] More like 5 or 6 [ 22:39:52 ]  [ @Togas ] ah, yes. settler screws things up [ 22:39:59 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] yep [ 22:40:05 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] true. [ 22:40:25 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] How far are you from writing? [ 22:40:31 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] Is the timing good? [ 22:40:48 ]  [ @MRex ] that is about in line with us getting writing, not sure the exact turn, but it is no more than five or six [ 22:40:51 ]  [ @Togas ] we'll probably still need a filler tech. [ 22:42:00 ]  [ @MRex ] yep, vander mentioned you getting ceremonial burial or the wheel to fill in? [ 22:42:44 ]  [ @Togas ] once you guys start on CoL you'll have to let us know how long it will be. We'll probably fill in with CB, but Wheel may also work if we're worried about the time frame ... [ 22:42:54 ]  [ @Togas ] as there's 4 tech points difference between Philo and CoL [ 22:43:00 ]  [ @MRex ] yes [ 22:43:03 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] Thats the key to which one [ 22:43:11 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] Its the timing [ 22:43:13 ]  [ @Togas ] in that case, wheel may be a better choice [ 22:43:35 ]  [ @MRex ] the other thing my team wants me to ask: have you met a third civ yet on our island? [ 22:43:41 ]  [ @Togas ] We have [ 22:44:03 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] We are not sure we should disclose which one [ 22:44:03 ]  [ @MRex ] and who is it? [ 22:44:07 ]  [ @Togas ] That's been a lot of the discussion in our forum [ 22:44:15 ]  [ @Togas ] probably why we got distracted about you guys. Sorry [ 22:44:19 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] The whole rules issue [ 22:44:24 ]  [ @Togas ] can we say? [ 22:44:33 ]  [ @MRex ] ok, then how long ago did you discover them? [ 22:44:40 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] Just dont say anything MREX [ 22:44:44 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] OK? [ 22:44:44 ]  [ @Togas ] several turns ago [ 22:44:54 ]  [ @Togas ] you can find their warrior on the east coast [ 22:45:44 ]  [ @MRex ] ok [ 22:45:56 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] I say tell him then Togas [ 22:46:31 ]  [ @MRex ] if i had to guess i would say it is pal. but i'm not going on a whole lot there, so i could be wrong [ 22:46:40 ]  [ @Togas ] I suppose it won't matter ... just don't share the info with other teams who are outside our game. [ 22:46:57 ]  [ @MRex ] sounds good [ 22:47:05 ]  [ @Togas ] You'll meet PAL soon enough [ 22:47:27 ]  [ @MRex ] cool, i'm right [ 22:47:39 ]  [ @MRex ] maybe i'm getting better at the demographics than i thought [ 22:48:15 ]  [ @Togas ] I know that GodKing told you once upon a time that we were north of you (and he apologizes for it), but PAL actually IS north of you ... somewhere. [ 22:48:27 ]  [ @Togas ] we're seeking out their homeland before they find ours. [ 22:48:51 ]  [ @MRex ] north is the only direction that is not either you or the ocean [ 22:49:03 ]  [ @Togas ] exactly, and that's where their warrior came from. [ 22:49:18 ]  [ @MRex ] and yes, if you remember we have a curragh circleing north [ 22:49:26 ]  [ @Togas ] you may find them before we do [ 22:49:59 ]  [ @MRex ] that may well be [ 22:51:25 ]  [ @Togas ] Who knows, we may be on a pangea and may find other civs. That, or this is a continent game. [ 22:51:39 ]  [ @MRex ] i believe we voted for continents [ 22:51:51 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] Its continents [ 22:51:52 ]  [ @MRex ] course someone could've screwed up somewhere along the way [ 22:51:59 ]  [ @Togas ] if so, that may mean that GWT and BAT are together somewhere.... [ 22:52:08 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] I've seen stranger occurences when it comes to placement, believe me. [ 22:52:50 ]  [ @MRex ] the french team and the german team are not likely to get together, too much bad blood from the isdg1 [ 22:53:03 ]  [ @MRex ] work together rather [ 22:53:26 ]  [ @Togas ] Dunno ... I think the Germans were going to help grenoble but CGN killed them too fast [ 22:53:54 ]  [ @MRex ] yeah, and if one civ kills off the other they would be hopelessly behind in tech by the time they meet us 3 [ 22:54:09 ]  [ @MRex ] nonetheless, i wouldn't put it past them [ 22:54:23 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] Access list for #c3c_isdg_embassy: [ 22:54:23 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] Num Lev Nickname [ 22:54:23 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] 1 10 conmcb25 [ 22:54:23 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] 2 10 Togas [ 22:54:34 ]  [ @Togas ] this is an elimination round ... once 2 fall, the remaining 3 move on. [ 22:55:04 ]  [ @Togas ] if one of them kills the other, they could just hang out on their island and fortify, hoping that one of us gets killed. [ 22:55:56 ]  [ @MRex ] if we can assume that one of them would knock off the other to advance to the next round, then whatever two civs ally in this game will also advance to the next round. [ 22:56:18 ]  [ @MRex ] on this continent [ 22:56:25 ]  [ @MRex ] man, i must be tired [ 22:56:40 ]  [ @Togas ] this is true [ 22:56:47 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] Togas deleted from #c3c_isdg_embassy access list. [ 22:56:54 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] Togas added to #c3c_isdg_embassy access list at level 999. [ 22:56:59 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] Access level must be between -999 and 999 inclusive. [ 22:57:09 ]  · · [ ChanServ (services@apolyton.net) ] Access level for conmcb25 on #c3c_isdg_embassy changed to 999. [ 22:57:28 ]  · · Kicks : conmcb25 was kicked from #c3c_isdg_embassy by [ Octavian_X ] : [ test ‹25› ] [ 22:57:29 ]  · · Joins : conmcb25 [ ~conmcb25@dhcp-66-244-84-178.smithvilledsl.net ] [ 22:57:29 ]  · · ChanMode : ChanServ sets mode [ +o ] conmcb25 [ 22:57:36 ]  [ @Togas ] good [ 22:57:37 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] bingo! [ 22:57:44 ]  [ @Togas ] let me test it [ 22:57:45 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] That'll work for you too, Togas. [ 22:57:47 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] Thanks OCT_X [ 22:57:50 ]  · · Parts : Togas [ Togas@c-66-229-68-28.we.client2.attbi.com ] [ 22:57:57 ]  · · Joins : Togas [ Togas@c-66-229-68-28.we.client2.attbi.com ] [ 22:57:57 ]  · · ChanMode : ChanServ sets mode [ +o ] Togas [ 22:58:01 ]  [ @Togas ] [ 22:58:10 ]  ! @Togas laughs at himself .... [ 22:58:17 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] Of course, con, you'll be removed soon since we have a new consul. [ 22:58:26 ]  [ @Togas ] that just killed my log.... stupid stupid togas. [ 22:58:39 ]  [ @MRex ] lol [ 22:58:40 ]  [ @Togas ] OctX -- you have all this so far? [ 22:58:43 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] No I wont, Im a FAM guy now [ 22:58:44 ]  [ @MRex ] who's the new counsil? [ 22:58:54 ]  [ @Togas ] That's a very good question [ 22:58:57 ]  [ @MRex ] i have a log if you need one [ 22:59:02 ]  [ @Togas ] we have a tie right now between Kloreep and Donegeal [ 22:59:30 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] and bout 8 hours left in the election [ 22:59:32 ]  [ @MRex ] well cdg endorses the more peaceloving of the two, whoever that is [ 22:59:44 ]  [ @Togas ] That's Kloreep [ 23:01:26 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] hhehe [ 23:01:34 ]  ! @Octavian_X has a log of all the stuff since he entered. [ 23:02:02 ]  [ @MRex ] on a lighter note, i can't seem to figure out how to stay alive in that mafia game on zen's site [ 23:03:47 ]  · · Joins : E_T [ ~e_t_1@user215.net1250.fl.sprint-hsd.net ] [ 23:03:53 ]  [ @MRex ] hey E_T [ 23:03:58 ]  [ @Togas ] I barely stayed alive the 2nd time I played it [ 23:04:06 ]  [ E_T ] hello [ 23:04:08 ]  [ @Togas ] mostly by stirring up a theory about someone else [ 23:04:14 ]  [ @Togas ] but if you post, Someone will vote for you [ 23:04:32 ]  [ @Togas ] and sometimes they'll all blindly follow some lame theory to oust you. [ 23:04:38 ]  [ @MRex ] anything to shift blame. sorta like politics [ 23:04:48 ]  · · ChanMode : conmcb25 sets mode [ +o ] E_T [ 23:05:35 ]  [ @Togas ] you can usually stay alive by staying below the radar, but that only works for so long [ 23:05:43 ]  [ @Togas ] in the end, it's just being lucky, I think. [ 23:05:54 ]  [ @Togas ] and, of course, not taking it very seriously. [ 23:06:01 ]  [ @Togas ] because everyone dies in that game [ 23:06:08 ]  [ @conmcb25 ] I quit playing once the women showed up [ 23:06:12 ]  [ @MRex ] of course [ 23:09:45 ]  [ @MRex ] anyway, don't want to keep you all here, and i have to get going [ 23:09:58 ]  [ @MRex ] nice chatting, talk to you all later [ 23:10:10 ]  · · Parts : MRex [ ~Micaelis@ool-44c08bf4.dyn.optonline.net ] [ 23:10:50 ]  [ @Togas ] [ 23:10:58 ]  [ @Togas ] log that puppy [ 23:11:20 ]  [ @Togas ] I'll post a summary in CDG embassy [ 23:19:48 ]  [ @Togas ] Oct, will you post chat? [ 23:21:42 ]  [ @Octavian_X ] I'll post what I have, sure.

	11-05-2004 09:38									#119
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Official Chat with MRex

OctX, conmcb25 (in his final act as Consul), and I met in #c3c_isdg_embassy tonight with MRex of CDG.

OctX will post the chat. Here is a summary:

CDG does want a "game long" NAP with us and has been waiting for our answer. They clearly expect us to say "yes" and have been somewhat worried that we haven't.

To counter this, I acted a bit surprised that they'd request such a long NAP, acting as though it was very out of the ordinary and unusual for teams to agree to. I countered by "explaining" that our team does thing a bit differently, we're a bit bureaucratic, and we don't allow our ambassadors to sign or promise anything beyond, say, 20 turns ... so that one ambassador won't outdo another. To keep things relatively even in our representation to different teams.

That seemed to go well. Also explained that we'd have to change our rules to give a "game long" and weren't sure that we should "break our own rules" to do that.

I recommend that, in the future, we tell CDG that we have an internal policy that forbids us from signing NAPS longer than 20 turns. The groundwork has already been laid for this claim.

He asked and after we acted worried about "breaking the rules" we "gave in" and told him that we met PAL. Gave him an idea of where we thought PAL was (to your north) and told them that PAL would meet them soon.

Talked about how we wouldn't attack them, NAP or not, because we had a great tech relationship and plan. Even though they had an unescourted settler we could have nabbed, we didn't, because we valued that relationship and agreement too much to throw it away.

MRex really wants us to go with his team into the 2nd round. It's somewhat sad, really, because I get the feeling that they're counting on to be their long term allies and friends in this game.

We let him know about our election and that meeting PAL had distracted us. We also did a fair amount of casual "off topic" talks. Were friendly. In the end he bid us farewell and left.

If I left something out, I'm sure OctX or con will fill you in.

--Togas

	11-05-2004 10:20									#120
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I notice MRex did not ask about PAL's tech and any dealings we had with them over such. Maybe I'm just not looking at it from the right perspective, but this demonstrates lack of trust IMO; either they figured we wouldn't tell them the truth if we told them anything at all, or they do know how to count beakers and saw us getting Wheel and Masonry several turns ago, which caused them to lose trust in us when we didn't mention anything to them - and indeed, and have referred to the Wheel in this chat as if we didn't have it.

If CDG can count beakers, they know we're liars already. Let's hope that's not the case.