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Drachen
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Hey Vmxa1;
Could you flesh out your tech aquisition strat for your posted win. I'm currently 2/5 steals safely done and I wonder if the gods of RNG were on your side or if you've developed a theft strategy that yields better results.
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:35
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I have no strategy other than use the cheap form early, middle price later and the safest when I care about getting caught.
This was only the second game that I used steals in any meaningful way. I am not sure of the numbers, but I got caught only a few times (3-4) all total.
Because of the fact that this was an island map, I knew they would do little damage in any war and I would hurt them more than they hurt me. At least until ICBM's.
I had at least one turn where I stole three techs on that turn at the cheapest level. Why, who knows. I sort of felt that the Chinese were with out a spy and in Fascism, but I don't know if that matters or not.
I never got caught with any investigate city runs either, but I did it only a few times. All with a spy IIRC.
I felt the RNG was not good to me for most of the game in terms of MGL's and I never got an SGL. I don't know if it was good, fair or outrageous in terms of steals. I would guess good, given the number of steals, but several times I did two steals in a turn. So was it normal, I cannot say.
I think I got my first MGL in 360Ad time frame.
So in short, I don't know anything about how espionage works internally.
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Mountain Sage
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachen
I'm looking forward to your report though since I can't really see how you got all those middle age wonders if there was anywhere near a normal distribution of good ground. |
I did not add or delete any luxuries or resources on the map, except that I added a second fur on my island and a wheat.
What I did was to isolate more some civs (not all of them). This seems to have thrown some of them really off balance and never recovered...
But play the game and you'll see. If somebody wants to check my map and have it 'certified' that my win at Sid lies within the acceptable (?) rules for such a win, post me a private e-mail and I'll send it to you.
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Sage
I did not add or delete any luxuries or resources on the map, except that I added a second fur on my island and a wheat.
What I did was to isolate more some civs (not all of them). This seems to have thrown some of them really off balance and never recovered...
But play the game and you'll see. If somebody wants to check my map and have it 'certified' that my win at Sid lies within the acceptable (?) rules for such a win, post me a private e-mail and I'll send it to you. |
Hey MS;
As to the editing of maps, I have gone a different route than you in that after some discussion in the “Sid level experiences” thread I decided to use HOF rules so that others could more easily relate to the settings of my games and so that I wouldn’t have to defend the settings of any game I chose to post. That said, my language may have been a bit unclear in my comments about your posted win. I did not mean to suggest that your game was too “cooked” to be valid. What I meant to say was that you probably have utilized a strategy which I have not thought of using and that this has allowed you to achieve the impressive results which you posted and I’m looking forward to your report so that I can understand your method.
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Mountain Sage
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OK, thanks for your trust.
I had not planned an AAR, since the game was really boring. I know you don't believe it, but it's true. How did I manage it?
Let's start from the beginning...
The settings: 1.22, large edited map, 5 billions, warm, wet. Barbarians sedentary, aggressiveness lowest. Spain vs. Celts, Aztecs, Arabia, Inca, Zulus, China, Egypt (all positioned on the map), Maya (random position).
As you can see, there are no Scientific and Seafaring civs. In fact, with this map setting, I could have put also some scientific civs, the outcome would have not been any different....
Editor: added a second fur and a wheat on the home island. All civs separated by 3 ocean tiles (with a few exceptions). No tinkering with resources or luxuries.
The basic strategy of my game was not to conquer any civ (with their 300+ units), but to exploit their fundamental weakness, at least at the beginning of the game: their isolation.
Therefore, I adopted the following strategy:
1. Contact asap (my first 3 units were 3 curraghs), with all civs, even by losing 5-6 curraghs (and I knew where they were!), to check their tech status. Later on, when some of them had Map Making, I build embassies and gave them 10-100 gold from time to time to keep them polite/gracious with me.
2. No military, except MP (to be disbanded after Republic). Later on, I fortified the few small islands near the main one as to prevent a landing, and I put about 15 caravels as scouts. Of course, I did not go to war, adding a PP game on top to my win.
3. Tight city spacing CxxC as to max. the number of cities. Building every city improvement bringing happiness/gold (basically everything except Colosseums and some Courthouses).
4. NO TRADING! This is probably the key to my success. I wanted all those isolated civs to research all techs by themselves. In fact, I traded just the following: Alphabet with Egypt (I thought they were one of the weakest) for Masonry (Palace pre-built) and Pottery (Granaries), but only when I had 10 turns left to Writing. Then, I traded Alphabet when I was already researching Philosophy for all available techs and Philosophy for Currency, Polytheism and Construction. Afterwards, nothing until Literature for Monotheism, because I wanted to become the tech leader aiming at Navigation.
I also did not trade any luxuries or techs for spare gold (hard, that one, one civ had 900 gold and lacked Literature…) to avoid boosting another civ, and of course no maps whatsoever.
5. The tech race: I went directly for Writing at 50 turns, then for Philosophy at 100% (some happiness problems, 15 gold left at the time of the discovery). The next free tech was Literature (had a pre-built). I had the feeling I did not need it but I wanted to avoid another civ getting it. I researched Republic at 90% and switched immediately (this is why I chose a Religious civ). I entered the Medieval Ages just ahead of the Celts (had lots of contacts with the Zulus) and got Sun Tsu and Leo with pre-builts. In facts the Celts went for the upper branch, which caused me a bit of concern. I traded Literature for Monotheism and researched Education (I had the Glibrary!) in 8 turns. As I was struggling ahead ( I ‘needed’ Magellan, Smith and Newton), the Celts and Zulus went to war and almost stopped researching. The game was basically over by then. In the Modern Times I went for the standard ToE and Hoover Dam wonder. In fact, all my game was a mad race for the shortest possible research time and the max. culture as to prevent a civ’s cultural win.
Well, basically that’s it. I will try another game later on with the same settings, but adding some Scientific civs and making contacts between civs easier. But for the time now, it’s my EarthSea game on Emperor and then some more games.
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Drachen
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Sounds like a lot less work than my game MS. Thanks for the AAR.
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Drachen
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Hardscrabble…
a game of resource denial. 1.15b, Sid, large archipelago at 80% water, sedentary barbs, arid, cool, 3 billion, normal aggression, default rules, Dutch vs. 7 random opponents who happened to be Carthage, Korea, India, Aztecs, Summeria, America, and Babylon.
 Attachment: victory.jpg
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Drachen
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The setting...
Attachment: start.jpg
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Drachen
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First Blood.
Attachment: ontocarthage.jpg
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Drachen
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Carthage falls
Attachment: carthagefalls.jpg
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Drachen
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Carthage yielded Leo's and Sun Tzu's. On to Summeria for Sistine, Bachs, and Smiths.
Attachment: ontosummaria.jpg
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Drachen
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Goodnight Summeria...
Attachment: summeriafalls.jpg
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Drachen
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Carthage II...
Attachment: carthage2.jpg
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Drachen
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Here’s a shot of my new and improved pillaging machine. I'd rather slow down the speed of enemy reinforcements by trashing them and follow on with dozens of slaves for rebuilding.
Attachment: pillage carthage.jpg
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Drachen
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I opened up on Korea with six pillaging armies and troops from about fifty Galleons.
Attachment: ontokorea.jpg
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Drachen
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Korea falls and on to Babylon for a warriors win. The game would have gone much faster if I'd left Korea alone as my score and trend were insurmountable.
Attachment: victoryscreen.jpg
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Drachen
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I used the Great Library to allow me to use funds to build up a force of Swiss Mercenaries which are great for bleeding the AI masses since they are cheap and powerful for the times. The golden age is nicely timed as well. I researched and stole tech about equally. For instance, researching Scientific Method... and now I’d like you to meet Mr. Hoover.
Attachment: a star is born.jpg
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Drachen
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The AI advantages are almost bizarre. This is a shot of one of Carthage’s most distant cities from their capital. The low corruption and other advantages kept Carthage in the game clear up till the end even though their land was generally poor, developed far away from their original start, and was just a collection of tiny islands. They were actually out-researching me at the end even though I had all the major improvements in my core and productive periphery. I just didn’t feel like doing all the clicking involved in going after all those little islands…
Attachment: ai advantages.jpg
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Drachen
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Final stats...
Attachment: finalstats.jpg
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Drachen
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and...
Attachment: domestic.jpg
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Drachen
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Military...
Attachment: military2.jpg
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Drachen
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Take a bow gentlemen…
Attachment: bow.jpg
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Drachen
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This is the opening save and a note that this is a relatively friendly map. You'll have all the resources you need and you're close to Carthage who will probably be your biggest rival (punching bag.)
 Attachment: s1william of the dutch, 4000 bc.sav
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Last edited by Drachen on 12-05-2004 at 22:28
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Drachen
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Thanks to ErikM, Mountain Sage, Aeson, and Vmxa1 for feedback, ideas, gentle correction, and general support. Also, special thanks to Moonsinger for her wonderful Map generating utility.
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08-05-2004 00:12
and then we were three...
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